Fallout Fallout General Thread - War, War Never Changes. Nor do game engines.

[Carrot of Truth]

Another IRL bullet that wouldn't make too much sense given the damage values ingame, although that one would be a lot more powerful than .22 short for sure.

We see from the assault carbine the magazine length looks about .223 size, not super short or anything, and rimfire in an automatic is a very bad idea.

The Vindicator does fire 5.56 but that still kind of retarded because then you might as well just give your dudes M60's. Dudes in Power Armor should be using autocannons since they are basically Infantry fighting vehicles on foot.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

The Vindicator does fire 5.56 but that still kind of retarded because then you might as well just give your dudes M60's. Dudes in Power Armor should be using autocannons since they are basically Infantry fighting vehicles on foot.

Ehhhhhhhhhh, power armor gives like +3-4 to strength, it doesn't let you lift weapons intended for IFV's or anything.

The firepower difference of an assault rifle and a basic-bitch 5mm minigun is impressive, even looking aside from the hilarious '60 thousand rounds per minute' issue in OG fallout, a mere 6000 rounds per minute would spray a LOT of lead.

And PO troops probably were running about with plasma rifles due to their bulk and power.

 

[Carrot of Truth]

Ehhhhhhhhhh, power armor gives like +3-4 to strength, it doesn't let you lift weapons intended for IFV's or anything.

The firepower difference of an assault rifle and a basic-bitch 5mm minigun is impressive, even looking aside from the hilarious '60 thousand rounds per minute' issue in OG fallout, a mere 6000 rounds per minute would spray a LOT of lead.

And PO troops probably were running about with plasma rifles due to their bulk and power.

Well energy weapons and gauss weapons are the real thing to use with power armor anyways

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Well energy weapons and gauss weapons are the real thing to use with power armor anyways

I mean if I was an underequipped Chinese dude and some guy in 7 foot armored suit busts a wall down and starts spraying thousands of 4.7mm caseless rounds I'd probably be just as upset as if he had a plasma raygun turning people into flesh-slime. XD

 

[Carrot of Truth]

I mean if I was an underequipped Chinese dude and some guy in 7 foot armored suit busts a wall down and starts spraying thousands of 4.7mm caseless rounds I'd probably be just as upset as if he had a plasma raygun turning people into flesh-slime. XD

It's hard to say what the Chinese were equipped with

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

It's hard to say what the Chinese were equipped with

Given that Tesla armor was being made, and power armor has significant laser resistances, I think the Chinese had lasers.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Hilarious Fallout 4 bug that Nerbit recently discovered, because bleed damage affects every limb of an enemy, and fusion cores are technically 'limbs' according to the game code, hitting power armored guys with low damage bleeding weapons (rolling pins for example) can blow up their armor suits lmao.

 

[Aaron Fox]

Given that Tesla armor was being made, and power armor has significant laser resistances, I think the Chinese had lasers.

Probably equivalent to early-gen models, to be honest.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Probably equivalent to early-gen models, to be honest.

Given the odd focus of late-war tech being laser-proofed, I am not too sure about that.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Discovered something odd, OG power armor sprites don't appear to have 'plated' arms, instead a silvery skintight covering. Now where have I seen that before...

Oh, that's where it's from!

So judging from corroborating the sprites and loading screen, power armor is a skintight body suit (similar to FO3 recon armor, ish) with a man-portable frame over the top, which the plates and equipment is attached to.

 

[Scooby Doo]

Fans when they complain Bethesda retcons armor not being Bulky like the original games.

Fans when they complain Bethesda does not retcon armor so it doesn't have hydraulics by the limbs like in a random poster that's in the original game.

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[TyrantTriumphant]

Power armor really should be fully plated. Otherwise it would be such an obvious weakness as to leave power armor useless for it's intended purpose. What's the point of having a walking tank if huge parts of it are vulnerable?

Besides, the arms of the power armor in the Fallout 1 intro are clearly armored with hydraulics. I'll take that as proof over some poster.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Power armor really should be fully plated. Otherwise it would be such an obvious weakness as to leave power armor useless for it's intended purpose. What's the point of having a walking tank if huge parts of it are vulnerable?

I mean canonically 15-1 odds with .223 rifles can take down BoS members pretty easily. They're not 'that' tough.

 

[TyrantTriumphant]

I mean canonically 15-1 odds with .223 rifles can take down BoS members pretty easily. They're not 'that' tough.

It's not invincible, but t51-b power armor is still pretty damn tough. Remember that this is the equipment that broke the back of the PLA in the Resource Wars. I can't imagine that happening if it had such glaring weaknesses.

If you really want to see how power armor should work in combat, I suggest watching a fan series on YouTube called "Fallout sunburst" by SODAZ. In it NCR conscripts fire enormous amounts of small arms fire at Brotherhood Paladins to little effect with the NCR only penetrating power armor when they bring up explosives and snipers.

 

[Scooby Doo]

Why does everyone assume the Battle of Helios 1 meant the NCR only used small caliber round rifles instead of .308's and explosives as would be present in formations of 15-20 men?

The NCR at that time would have had access to this because the Battle of Operation Sunburst took place before the nuking of The Divide which cut the NCR logistics from two paths down to one. Prior to the nuking of the Divide the NCR had enough explosives to level Boulder City.


But you're telling me the NCR only used service rifles?
Lmafo the low-ball to paint ones narrative

 

[Husky_Khan]

Why does everyone assume the Battle of Helios 1 meant the NCR only used small caliber round rifles instead of .308's and explosives as would be present in formations of 15-20 men?

The NCR at that time would have had access to this because the Battle of Operation Sunburst took place before the nuking of The Divide which cut the NCR logistics from two paths down to one. Prior to the nuking of the Divide the NCR had enough explosives to level Boulder City.


But you're telling me the NCR only used service rifles?
Lmafo the low-ball to paint ones narrative

Yeah I remember talking about this before.

If the NCR attacked like they did in a manner resembling their first defense of Hoover Dam, then they had the Rangers and Recon Snipers on the high ground targeting the higher value targets.

The only real tactical thing we know about the Battle is being outnumbered 15-20 to 1 and the NCR supposedly coming in waves. The NCR never seemed big on Kamikaze Charges and their troops for suicidal bravery so I'm assuming it wasn't literal Banzai charge after Banzai charge, just advancing, some getting ashed or gooped and either falling back or taking cover in the heights.

Meanwhile you have Recon and Ranger snipers armed with hunting rifles, sniper rifles and anti material rifles as well as Marksmen Carbines as seen on New Vegas being able to suppress the Paladins and would be able to whether they are on the roof or not. The optics on Laser Rifles and Plasma Rifles ain't all that great and the Sharpshooters can advance while the NCR troopers are attacking and put on fire from the roof or the ground.

Accumulating damage from actual rifle rounds plinking off ones head or limbs or even hitting the BoS weapons would seriously impair ones day.

I actually am of the opinion that Power Armor is highly resilient to small arms fire and should be considered as such in the lore. Power Armored infantry turned the tide of the Yangtze Campaign in the Great War. They scourged the Pitt. They were literal walking Tanks in Fallout One and Two when even basic energy weapons (and big guns) were scary asf.

But the NCR has shown some strategy before beyond assuming 15-20 Service Rifles whittled down the Paladins in an Open Field. Helios One wasnt defensible, they were outnumbered, they ran out of munitions and the NCR had more than Service Rifles.

Sad we never saw the NCR using cool stuff like missile launchers or grenade rifles, but it was clear they had those available. Mags of the Misfits had a grenade rifle at Camp Golf, Grenade Launchers were sold at the 188 Trading Post by the Arms Merchant and at the Camp McCarran Supply Shack. The Quartermaster at Hoover Dam could sell hundreds of the 40mm grenades (and sometimes sold Fat Man mininukes as well). And NCR Merchants at the 188 Trading Post and Camp McCarran also sold Missile Launchers and Missiles as well.

The average NCR Trooper was probably better trained and maybe equipped back then on average as well considering the attrition that would follow the Battle of Hoover Dam.

Tldr the NCR has more then Service Rifles. They have hunting rifles, brush guns, modern military carbines, grenade rifles, anti-material rifles and their vendors can sell missiles and 40mm grenades, even mini nukes. Helios 1 is geographically hard to defend, surrounded by high hills on two sides, and the BoS were also outnumbered 15-1 minimum and running out of munitions.

Operation Sunburst is not good indirect evidence of Power Armor being vulnerable to basic small arms.

 

[Scooby Doo]

Yeah I remember talking about this before.



Tldr the NCR has more then Service Rifles. They have hunting rifles, brush guns, modern military carbines, grenade rifles, anti-material rifles and their vendors can sell missiles and 40mm grenades, even mini nukes. Helios 1 is geographically hard to defend, surrounded by high hills on two sides, and the BoS were also outnumbered 15-1 minimum and running out of munitions.

Operation Sunburst is not good indirect evidence of Power Armor being vulnerable to basic small arms.

Plus the Fallout show basically confirmed you needed armor piercing ammunition targeting a weak spot in the armor to kill the users in a inferior set of armor.


The T-51B should be more resilient than the T-60's that were no selling bullets here


If anything I only see small arms taking down power armor by focus fire on the joints or sticking a barrel through the gaps of the armor, otherwise we see that power armored users are literally used as cover and as a shield for the unarmored infantry.

 

[Navarro]

or sticking a barrel through the gaps of the armor

That seems really implausible in a combat scenario. Maybe if you catch a guy sleeping in PA, but if you catch a guy sleeping you've pretty much all but already won.

 

[Zachowon]

That seems really implausible in a combat scenario. Maybe if you catch a guy sleeping in PA, but if you catch a guy sleeping you've pretty much all but already won.

In the show they got the jump on one and shived a 45 into the neck slot

 

[Scooby Doo]

That seems really implausible in a combat scenario. Maybe if you catch a guy sleeping in PA, but if you catch a guy sleeping you've pretty much all but already won.

It is very implausible, the show managed to get it done because the PA trooper was reeling from an explosion so they used the chance while he was disoriented to stick a gun barrel down his neck while the other troopers barely slowed down the PA arms from going up.

Overall the Observatory fight basically shows the PA is bullet proof to small arms fire.

The Brotherhood infantry using the power armored troops as literal walking cover which would be impractical if bullets could punch clean through them.

Using power armor as cover was a consistent tactic used which wouldn't be considered valid if the armor wasn't resistant.

We also have this clip of the NCR gunner on a 7.62 mounted machine gun firing at Brotherhood forces and immediately afterwards bullets are sparking harmlessly off the armor. The PA troopers are literally standing out in the open and no selling gun fire from like six different guns