Putin Could Burst Xi’s Olympic Dream With a War in Ukraine
The Chinese president is due to host his Russian counterpart at the Beijing Winter Games in early February.
www.bloomberg.com
Russian-Ukrainian-Polish Eternal Friendship Thread
- Thread starter Husky_Khan
- Start date
www.bloomberg.com
Agent23
Ни шагу назад!
There are some of these global indices I actually like, Ease of doing business, competitiveness, PPP, perception indices on the other hand are absolute nonsense, and you are posting random stuff.We'll see ... we'll see.
Ironically, if Russia takes a huge bite out of Ukraine (in order to create a neutralist buffer state there), then this could make it easier for the remainder of Ukraine to move beyond its Soviet past and successfully deal with things such as corruption. The former USSR is notoriously bad for its corruption even in comparison to the Balkans:
On a semi-related note, here is a nice video about the Kievan Rus:
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Putin Could Burst Xi’s Olympic Dream With a War in Ukraine
The Chinese president is due to host his Russian counterpart at the Beijing Winter Games in early February.
It's kind of surreal. The Georgian Conflict took place during the 2008 Beijing Games and China was all like 😑 during the whole affair since it did honestly take the global spotlight off of their Olympics.
Airedale260
Well-known member
Oh, are you Russian? Because if so, this explains a lot. Well, let's see...
"Interfere with national interests and international affairs."
The Berlin Blockade. The Korean War. Soviet intervention in Vietnam (as in, actual Russians fighting the Americans). The invasion of Afghanistan. KAL Flight 007 (preceded by another flight, 902, five years earlier). Fuckery in Latin America.
Not to mention the shit Russia has historically gotten up to in its warm water ports and territorial expansion. "For defensive reasons"...right. Russia tries to dominate if not outright conquer its neighbors. Its neighbors then react by banding together with other parties for protection. Russia has Surprised Pikachu face. Maybe it's because Russia is generally seen as a much bigger asshole on the world stage and its own shit stinks just as much?
"Calling its leaders killers."
Yeah, because it's pretty obvious that low-level Russian troops who went into places like Chechnya or Georgia weren't just doing it for shits and giggles -they were ordered by Russian leadership to do so. Issues over whether Chechnya had the right to try and secede or not, the Russians had a habit of committing serious war crimes. Same with Georgia. Or, to blame Putin personally:
Aleksandr Litvinenko.
Aleksandr Perepilichny.
For those who were poisoned but didn't die:
Alexei Navalny.
Viktor Yuschenko.
Sergei Skripal.
Vladimir Kara-Murza.
Pyotr Verzilov.
Anna Politkovskaya (side note she was gunned down two years later outside her apartment and nobody ever caught the killer).
Or the wave of apartment bombings in 2000, which only ended when a couple of FSB agents were caught with live explosives and detonators and arrested by the locals. It was claimed to be a "training exercise"...that nobody had any record or knowledge of.
Whatever Putin's personal involvement, he is the man at the top and the ruble stops with him. So, as they say "If the shoe fits..."
"Pushing a political system Russians regard as being of dubious value." This one...well, as the old saying goes, "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all of the others that have been tried."
What the West was hoping for was a democratic Russia that, even if a competitor, was also a country which wouldn't be aggressive, wouldn't go around suppressing dissent at home and abroad, etc. The U.S. in particular drastically fucked that up in backing Yeltsin to the hilt and following the advice of the Treasury and Commerce Departments (who said Russia needed a strong market economy in order to liberalize*), as opposed to the State and Justice Departments, who said what was really needed was to help Russia establish a strong and robust legal system and civic framework.
So I get the disillusionment there, but at the same time, it wasn't done to screw Russia, it was just a series of really stupid mistakes by Bill Clinton, who isn't what anyone on here or other forums would call a genius in international relations.
I don't have to, because I know what those are, and as I pointed out earlier, have become pipe dreams in recent weeks for the former. The latter? Le Pen (like her old man) is and always has been a fucking idiot with a love affair for dictators who aren't left wing. She's only gaining traction in France for the same reason Trump and Johnson did in the U.S. and UK -because it's a radical shift from current affairs. It's less broad support and more the public telling the politicians to pull their heads out of their asses.
See, I don't have time to watch videos, I have a life outside of here. But I don't need to, because I've been reading stuff by Mearsheimer (and Stephen Walt, and Robert Putnam, and a bunch of others, including Fukuyama but also Samuel Huntingdon) since I was a freshman in college, and that was required for my undergrad degree.
I'm not some neo-whatever on foreign policy, but rather someone who knows that my country had to intervene twice in shooting wars in Europe (the latter in Asia as well, which was particularly bloody), and while we didn't suffer the same casualties as the Russians, we also didn't want a situation where a European controlled Russia could directly threaten our shores. Because Russia has a history of expansionism, and combined with the various forms of Russian chauvinism, means that, inevitably, tensions get hot. THAT is why we created NATO (which the Russians did try to interfere with from the inside but the U.S. wisely said no) and stayed engaged with Western Europe. Because the consequences otherwise would ultimately be dire, and we didn't want that. Nor does most of Europe (especially the eastern half which remembers the bad old days and so doesn't want it even more), which is why they've aligned with NATO. Russia whining about that and then doing the things it does only INCREASE those fears, and so it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Are you denying that the Solar Winds hacks occurred? Or the attack on the Colonial Pipeline? Because Russian protestations in the face of hard evidence...have pretty much no credibility.*
Russian cyberattacks pose greater risk to governments and other insights from our annual report - Microsoft On the Issues
During the past year, 58% of all cyberattacks observed by Microsoft from nation-states have come from Russia. And attacks from Russian nation-state actors are increasingly effective, jumping from a 21% successful compromise rate last year to a 32% rate this year. Russian nation-state actors are...
blogs.microsoft.com
Nazis? Maybe that comes from the leftward end of the political spectrum but to be fair, Russia in general IS very reactionary in how it treats gays and so forth compared to the West.
Islamic fundamentalism? This is 2022, not 2002. If anything, the concern mainly shifted to focus on threats outside the homeland -though, as we have seen in recent days in Dallas, such threats still exist. Fun fact, by the way: Russia actually tried framing their shenanigans in Georgia prior to the 2008 invasion as part of the War on Terror...except the U.S. knew what they were doing and got involved themselves. Leaving the Russians fuming because they'd overplayed their hand and it blew up in their faces again.**
My concern isn't really getting involved everywhere and anywhere, but rather in those particular areas where our adversaries are causing trouble. I'm not advocating getting directly involved in Ukraine, but I *am* advocating standing up to a bully sooner rather than later, because we've seen this story before, and it always ends in tears.
*-In one particularly memorable moment, Georgia shot down a Russian jet and captured the pilot. Despite the plane's markings, the guy being alive with his Russian military flight suit and Russian military IDs, Russia claimed it was really a Georgian aircraft as a false flag...even after it was pointed out Georgia didn't *have* those kinds of jets. So...Russian protestations ring pretty hollow.
**-You want my personal opinion, it's that Russia will succeed in getting its way after it invades Ukraine, but ends up getting neutered in the Baltic as Sweden and Finland join NATO, the various member states slap sense into Germany, and re-arm while cutting any dependences they have in Russia. Oh, and for added fun, mechanized forces get permanently stationed in Poland and Eastern Europe as insurance against incursions into NATO territory.
Russia may get what it wants in the short term. Long term, though, it's only fucking itself. Ironically, by projecting its own way of thinking (mirror imaging, it's called) onto NATO instead of doing some serious self-reflection, Russia is digging itself deeper. Nobody gave a shit about Georgia or Central Asia. Hell, most people don't now. But Russia seems determined to fuck itself.
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Agent23
Ни шагу назад!
No, I am not Russian, however I am not a Western Media Kool Aid Drinker, either.
I do not need you to parrot fake news at me, for half of that stuff you have no proof, just allegations based on the say-so of a few of Putin's political enemies and butthurt oligarchs, Navalny, for example, is a bigger joke than the U.S. libertarian party where Russian politics are concerned, of course he would like to grift money off of gullible westerners.
None of these jokers were at all relevant prior to the western media finding out about them, or them whoring themselves out to it, or the U.S. deep state deciding to use them for some purpose.
Korean war?
Korea is very far from Ukraine, and very irrelevant to the actual OP, but then again you are a brainwashed Russia hater, so of course you'd regurgitate every nasty thing you heard about the country to justify your little hate boner.
In any case, Russian and Soviet involvement in the Korean conflict are foar more complex than 'hurr-durr Russians/Soviets/Communists Hate our Freedoms..."
You can read some of the specifics in The Cold War: A New History by John Lewis Gaddis, an acclaimed US historian, again, this is just a random example, I am not planning to go through your list, which is every Western/US grievance with Russia/The USSR for the past 100 years or so.
Do you even understand the difference between Modern Russia and the USSR, one was an ideology-driven totalitarian communist state(E.g. a god-free religion, just like the Neolibtards and neocucks), the other is driven more by a mix of nationalism and some capitalism.
You are giving opinions for a place you have never been to, for people you have never met and that opinion is formed by the same MSM jokers that would label you an alt-right Nazi for being to the right of Stalin, for liking decent videogames, or for thinking there is such a thing as biological sex, the same people who told you there were WMDs in Iraq and that Saddam was involved in 9/11, the same deep state hacks that pushed for a number of regime change operations that caused formerly prosperous countries to become shitholes with actual open air slave markets run by ISIS, the same people who tell you Biden is the greatest leader since all the Founding Fathers, combined.
it is obvious that I am dealing with either an Ukrainain Paid troll or with somebody so dense as to make a black hole seem like a feather by comparison.
So long and thanks for the fish!
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So...
To get this discussion back on track...
I'll just leave this here...
To get this discussion back on track...
I'll just leave this here...
Agent23
Ни шагу назад!
Very unrealistic as two Americans can actually find it on the map.
But it nicely summarizes the anger of whoever I just blocked.
Very unrealistic as two Americans can actually find it on the map.
But it nicely summarizes the anger of whoever I just blocked.
They are playing a game of Risk.
Agent23
Ни шагу назад!
And I am making a joke.
Airedale260
Well-known member
You are a joke. I noticed you completely ignored all of what I just said, including why Americans have negative opinions on Russia. You “can’t be bothered” because what I said is true. You pick and choose what was said rather than actually engage on it. Lik
Now. Someone who has never visited Ukraine, I’ll admit that.
But.
Did I happen to mention that I have a master’s degree in Central and Eastern European Studies? That I have been pulling much of this from memory because I have an in-depth familiarity with the region, much more than most Americans? And that I’ve been watching this part of the world rather closely for the past 15 years?
No? Well, sunshine, I do. So saying “I’m just following what the media tells me” and going on about different complaints without responding to my actual points even though you asked why America has issues with Russia and says what it does isn’t going to fly with me.
I am aware of who Gaddis is, and he’s very knowledgeable in his field. But at the same time, he’s one man who, while quite intelligent, has his own biases and preconceptions. Same as John Mearsheimer. Same as Francis Fukuyama, for that matter.
Bitching about irrelevant subjects is rich coming from you
Though I am curious, if you aren’t Russian, what are you?
Biden Weighs Deploying Thousands of Troops to Eastern Europe and Baltics (Published 2022)
The president is also considering deploying warships and aircraft to NATO allies, in what would be a major shift from its restrained stance on Ukraine.
Maybe he's an American? US Russophiles do exist, after all.
Solely guessing based off of that map you posted about the Corruptions Index (and that you apparently only posted because you have a hateboner for Russia) imma going to guess either Belarus... or Serbia... or... Bulgaria.
I would say Moldova... but... that doesn't seem likely at all. I'm not even sure how likely Belarus would be since its internet options are supposedly limited to some degree, especially since the 2020 Election issues that have been going on there.
Solely guessing based off of that map you posted about the Corruptions Index (and that you apparently only posted because you have a hateboner for Russia) imma going to guess either Belarus... or Serbia... or... Bulgaria.
I would say Moldova... but... that doesn't seem likely at all. I'm not even sure how likely Belarus would be since its internet options are supposedly limited to some degree, especially since the 2020 Election issues that have been going on there.
If you want to complain about a rigged 2020 election, then definitely move to Belarus since then and there you would at least be speaking the truth in regards to this. But of course Belarus severely punishes truth-tellers:
Why Belarus wanted to silence an Olympic sprinter
For President Alexander Lukashenko of Belarus, known as Europe’s last dictator, this was personal.
www.nbcnews.com
Arrested Belarus dissident weeps in interview on state TV
The dissident Belarusian journalist and opposition activist who was arrested after his airline flight was diverted to Minsk wept in an interview on state television.
apnews.com
Under constant threat of arrest, Belarusian journalist Larysa Shchyrakova aims to expose an authoritarian regime
The schoolteacher-turned-journalist covers government repression under President Alexander Lukashenko – and has felt the full force of that pressure because of her work
www.theglobeandmail.com
You'll sure as Hell miss soft-'n-cuddly Joe Biden when you're dealing with Alexander Lukashenko!
Interestingly enough, as I have already previously suspected, the two biggest winners in any Russian invasion of Ukraine are going to be the Israelis and the Chinese:
History Learner
Well-known member
The Embassy has confirmed they've started evacuating families and non-essential personnel and they are advising all American citizens to get out now while they can, as well as issuing a do not travel advisory. I suspect we're going to be figuring out very, very soon what's coming.
King Arts
Well-known member
I'm actually surprised. I thought most Jews left eastern europe for Israel or other western nations once communism fell. It would offer a better life, and there would be less prejudice against them. Also they'd have an easier time leaving than other people (assuming they go to Israel) since Israel wants more people to come to their nation so it grows.
Huh look at that.
Between May and August of 2019 Ukraine was the only country (besides Israel) to actually have a Jewish Head of State and Head of Government in Volodymyr Zelensky and Volodymyr Groysman respectively.
This also means that between May and August of 2019, both Ukraine and the United States were the only countries in the world to have Nazis and Jews working side by side in ruling their respective countries.
Fifth biggest Jewish population in Europe and number twelve around the world. According to Wikipedia the number of Jews is 67,000 as of 2014 but there's other estimates ranging as high as 360,000-400,000 which is a pretty wonky range.
History of the Jews in Ukraine - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Airedale260
Well-known member
After Afghanistan, I’m fairly certain that the State Department doesn’t want another fiasco like with Kabul. The campaign ads and subsequent Congressional hearings will be writing themselves.
After Communism fell, the impetus for getting the hell out of Dodge kind of fell…yeah, it wasn’t perfect, but leaving one’s home is a difficult thing to do, especially if there are a lot of your fellows still around and the KGB and whatnot aren’t around any more to make your life miserable.
Didn’t know Zelensky was Jewish. That’s cool, though.
Most ex-USSR Jews actually did already emigrate. But some did stay behind. Some of the ones who stayed behind are, of course, half-Jews and quarter-Jews and their spouses and families.
Israel alone already got over 1 million ex-USSR immigrants, the US got something like 300,000 of them, and Germany got over 100,000 of them. I'm only talking about the Jews, Jewish-descent people, and their families here, of course. Obviously there were other ex-USSR immigrants on top of these, such as the ex-USSR Germans to Germany.