Agent23
Ни шагу назад!
Nope, proud serf of the EUSSR.
Is this forum Americans and Russia-haters only?
Didn't see any of that in the rules.
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Russian-Ukrainian-Polish Eternal Friendship Thread
- Thread starter Husky_Khan
- Start date
Is this forum Americans and Russia-haters only?
Didn't see any of that in the rules.
PsihoKekec
Swashbuckling Accountant
It's something that certain people feel very strongly about. The same people, who will decry media for fake news cesspool and Biden regime as shameless liars, will treat anything coming from the same sources, saying Russia is bad, as divine truth. Doublethink is not just woke trait, it's something common to all of the humanity.
Agent23
Ни шагу назад!
Yeah, and then they ree about you being a Russian bot/citize/sympathizer if you go against the narrative they have been fed.
Rather like certain people here decrying US "imperialism" glossing over the obvious imperialism of taking over another country the way Russia is lining itself up to do.
Agent23
Ни шагу назад!
According to the western media, you mean.Rather like certain people here decrying US "imperialism" glossing over the obvious imperialism of taking over another country the way Russia is lining itself up to do.
Also, remind me, how many times did the USA invade Mexico to safeguard its interests, also Texas is still a thing, as is your intervention in Kosovo.
The situation is not dissimilar with Russia and Ukraine, only the Ethnic Russians were there before "Ukraine" was even a thing.
This would be like if the USA melted down due to woke-itis, Texas wanted to become part of Mexico again, and parts of Northern Texas that still identify as American wanted to join whatever Rump State was left.
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Agent23
Ни шагу назад!
On the one hand, I enjoy the moronic shit show, on the other hand I'd rather it not be in my fucking back yard.
Go invade Saudi Arabia(You know, totalitarian islamic monarchy that doesn't let stronk waminz drive) or Mexico or Nicaragua.
I also love Ron Paul telling him to take the red pill.
Not an American, but if 74% of your population want you to focus on domestic problems, don't you think it is, you know, undemocratic, to waste time on foreign adventures.
I mean
Indeed, Russia's case in this conflict would be more sympathetic and justifiable than IRL if Russia's intention was merely to solve it according to the national self-determination standard.
Unfortunately, Russia is far more interested in solving it according to the spheres of influence standard, which it was pretty close to succeeding at through hybrid means (highly integrated combination of low intensity warfare, diplomacy, and intelligence operations).
-Ukrainians starts thinking too much about being buddy buddy with EU (whether its sympathy to the west, salivating at EU generosity to poor countries or both, doesn't matter) and overthrow Russia friendly establishment which got asked by Kremlin to block that, and did it like good ol' Kremlin boys they are.
-KGB nobility says this cannot stand and there have to be consequences. A pretty clever plan is devised. They will set up an insurgency in the most pro-Russia part of Ukraine to make a bit of a mess, everyone knows EU and western media are super sensitive to this kind of a mess, no EU for ya hahaha. There is a bit of fighting, Ukrainian army, which is kinda useless according to intel reports flails around uselessly. Eventually Russia moves in as big damn peacekeepers, ends the war, and dictates the peace plan - which will be that the most pro-Russian regions will receive autonomy within Ukraine, and that autonomy will come with preferably legal, or at minimum de facto veto powers over Ukraine's foreign policy and related decisions. Of course that will be meant to be used first and foremost to prevent Ukraine from closing too much to the west.
Also swipe Crimea in the chaos, because fuck paying Ukraine for renting the military bases forever. Russia is not America, it's not made of money, sheesh.
-Things go according to the plan. At least at first. Crimea swipe is a great success, Ukrainian army is about as surprised and useless as predicted. Unfortunately that doesn't last, they start getting their shit in order after some time and pressing on the insurgency hard. Russia needs to become more aggressive with support to ensure they don't get crushed, which is supposed to be secret but shit happens, which in turn has all sorts of political consequences in Russia, Ukraine and the western countries.
-Ukrainian military advance is slowed down enough for international diplomacy to work and the plan seems salvaged, the name of the game is Minsk Agreement which has the necessary elements at least in general wording.
-However, the little cracks in the plan seem to be widening and ruining it. The fighting was a bit too long and too intense, in that too much grievance between the sides was created to get them to kiss and be friends again, and enough infrastructure damage was done for the area to become a bit of a hot potato rather than valuable real estate, while westerners may be seeing too much through the plan and supporting Ukraine more than they are supposed to, especially after not falling for the "no Russian forces" cover, which in turn makes it harder to make Ukraine just bow to pressure and go along.
-Things get mired in status quo, Russia's hope is that the next president is their guy, or at least manipulable and can be persuaded to get the plan back on track. The discussions over diplomatic solutions get dragged out in excessive lawyering and shouting as Ukrainians seem to know what's the plan with autonomy and try to lawyer the wording in a way that doesn't serve the plan, which in turn cannot be accepted, more lawyering and shouting ensues.
-Elections in Ukraine happen, and the next president also turns out to be a disappointment for Russia. More bickering and lawyering. Separatists are getting harder to control, do unsightly stuff, life.
-Putin starts to think that the plan is stuck, needs some adjustment or a good hard push.
And its a good time to do this, because the current team in Washington looks less threatening than anything before it, especially after Afghanistan bungle, and is pretty distracted with economy and corona stuff to boot.
-We are here. The format of negotiations is changed to negotiations at gunpoint, including plans to pull the trigger if the right set of conditions arises.
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Arch Dornan
Oh, lovely. They've sent me a mo-ron.
Biden's going to war with Russia?
Agent23
Ни шагу назад!
The USA and the EU for that matter enforce self-determination when it suits them the best, so go cry me a river about all that.
Russia basically told Ukraine that they will lose their customs union status, and thus a lot of their markets, but since the EU is a lot bigger and throws a lot more money at local satraps if they tug the party line, they love "Europhiles" from Eastern Europe that will vote for more Eurocracy in exchange for Euroslop in their Eurotroughs.
Customs Union for Russia with Ukraine would have meant that the EU could go around Russian tariffs via the association agreement, at least that was one of the main bones the Russians had to pick with the EU over Ukraine when this whole shit show started, before the Euromeidan circus ousted a democratically-elected president.
Also, any and all stupid things and austerity get blamed on the EU, thus giving the parasites the benefit of a scapegoat.
And yeah, I am moderately Eure-skeptical, doesn't mean I want it to disappear, though.
I will ignore the usual Russia/Putin hate, as it is totally irrelevant.
PsihoKekec
Swashbuckling Accountant
According to media. Who proved themselves to be liars in the last decade or so and have a vested interest to stoke up the tensions as part of their long running Russian collusion hoax.
Airedale260
Well-known member
So would Ukraine, and so would the rest of the world. Unfortunately, Russia thinks differently. If it were Kazakhstan (which has a lot of Russian troops to suppress riots against their boy in Astana), this wouldn’t be getting nearly the p
You’re not American, so maybe you don’t know to take such polls with a spoonful of salt. Also, you’re unironically citing an interview with Russia Today, the Kremlin’s mouthpiece.
To that end, such polls are like “Should something be done about protecting the environment?” or “Should we help the poor?” In the abstract, few people will disagree. It’s when you get into the details that it becomes much dicier, especially when you ask “What domestic policies?” and few people can give you a straight answer besides “The economy” (which is really “the feds need to stop fucking around” -ironically, the more they pay attention the worse the economy tends to get).
Few people are seriously advocating for putting boots on the ground in Ukraine. I’m not, because I really don’t want World War III to kick off. But you can’t expect the U.S. not to care, especially when, thanks to Europe, we’re the ones mainly stuck footing the bill and the potential casualties if something DOES go wrong.
No, i have no idea where you got that scenario, but what happened in reality was much more radical and questionable.
Euromaidan - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Russian embargo of Ukrainian goods - Wikipedia
I don't think embargo is how just random neutral countries that don't have a customs union normally treat each other. In reality it is a pretty damn hostile move.
Russia also did not list legal conflict between the rules of customs union and yet non-existent Ukraine-EU agreement as the motivation for the embargo, you can read what justifications (usual ones for when Russia wants to slap countries but not openly say why) they used in the second article.
Russian ships, tanks and troops on the move to Ukraine as peace talks stall - NewsBreak
With negotiations deadlocked, Moscow is continuing to build up its military forces for a possible invasion
www.newsbreakapp.com
Russian ships, tanks and troops on the move to Ukraine as peace talks stall - NewsBreak
With negotiations deadlocked, Moscow is continuing to build up its military forces for a possible invasion
NewsBreakApp said:
Those Russians must know something about the vaunted Ukrainian Air Force that even Ukraine doesn't know about.
Ok, so things got a bit heated last night, but mostly calmed back down afterwards, nicely done. The staff would appreciate it if you could keep that up and try to reign it in a bit when dealing with other posters.
Better to be prepared incase some totally not American pilots show upThose Russians must know something about the vaunted Ukrainian Air Force that even Ukraine doesn't know about.