Armchair General's DonbAss Derailed Discussion Thread (Topics Include History, Traps, and the Ongoing Slavic Civil War plus much much more)
- Thread starter ParadiseLost
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Floridaman
Well-known member
On the bright side most of the problems with LA and New York would be fixed. Also. I call dibs on the title of raider warlord.
Never took you for a drama queen.
Calling for what? I'm a little confused as to what this is all about.
Calling what is going on.
I know plenty didn't want it but every single person knew it was likely.
We also know we won't get invovoed yet so many fo you seem to think we will
Agent23
Ни шагу назад!
Seeing as I don't know that much about the Korean war asides from them thinking that conventional warfare was over and done with and massively under supplying themselves with conventional ordnance I will assume you are in the right until I have time to do some research.
WWII for the USA in Europe was frankly a cakewalk, since the Germans threw everything they had at the soviets and the few forces they had fighting the Western Allies threw themselves into willing allied captivity.
What they should have been paying attention to was the actual, low-budget war they fought in Asia.
Although from that they drew the conclusion that nuking and carpet firebombing of major cities was the way to go, IMO.
And fragments of that tactic are actually echoed in their efforts in Vietnam, they threw a lot of bombs and very toxic defoliant agents there, with the end effect being that they just made more and more farmers into
No effort to understand the local population and their problems with the French or the Catholic minority that was in control of the country, the CIA supporting assassinations of South Vietnamese heads of state and politicians in favor of a military junta, forcing populations to move to "strategic" villages etc, etc.
Frankly Korea was a massive success when compared to Vietnam, IMHO.
Agent23
Ни шагу назад!
In short, it sounds like your country is trying to stretch things out and keep its hands clean of the thing.
I think even your leadership must have understood that prolonging this war will bring them more refugees and more inflation, as well as a risk of Russian counter-escalation.
Seeing as I am in a 4th rate power that will pull out of any war first chance we get, and not in any of the bigger cities or close to any military bases I probably live to deal with the roaming gangs of rad mutants, ghouls, raiders and cannibals.
Yay, I get to Fallout/Metro/Bright Future LARP!
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You mean where you utterly failed to back up your claims?
You mean Operation Reality where Russia is loosing vehicles, equipment, and troops at something like a 3 to 1 ratio to Ukraine?
What bullshit, exactly?
Agent23
Ни шагу назад!
And who is destroying them?
The Ghost of Kiev?
Not my words, but colonel Douglas Macgregor's, corroborated by the words of Scott Ritter.
Anyone who believes Ukraine's war propaganda is nuts.
Well, let's make it clear then.
What's your position on the Ukranian-Russian war? Do we get involved? Is Russia in the right? Is Ukraine? Is the West? Should we intervene? Or simply stand by and let it happen? Or try to broker a peace agreement?
A loss of three to one is actually not all that surprising. That's probably to be expected when invading a foreign power of similar capabilities. Those javelins and stingers we gave Ukraine have even a great deal of the playing field. Were it not for those, this probably would have been over by now. That doesn't however, change the strategic math; Russia is clearly winning. The most Kiev can do is forestall and make the Russians (and thus the Ukrainians) bleed for every mile.
We shouldn't and won't get invovled with troops on ground. I am for Ukraine because they are less guilty then Russia. Our government is doing a horrible job...
We should try and just support the weapons of the Ukrainians
Go on, keep wishfully thinking everyone is secretly simping for Russia.
Okay, a reasonable position.
My position is that we shouldn't and won't get involved. Not enough for a direct confrontation.
I am neither for nor against Ukraine. Russia is not exactly clean for how they've handled this mess with Ukraine from the start, but the West made the situation worse. If they did not consider the ramifications for trying to draw Ukraine into our orbit, then they're fools. If they did, but did this anyway, they're bastards.
I consider Ukraine's leadership to be both corrupt and delusional. I think Kiev is drunk on the possibilities of what Ukraine might have were it to join the EU and is willing to wage a war to gain access to it and NATO weapons. That is after all, what this war is about. I think the way Zelensky has handled the peace before it came to war is absolutely disgusting and delusional. I think Zelensky and his admin are (by necessity) outright lying about the damage they're inflicting upon the Russians and the willingness of Ukrainians to fight against Russia. A million and a half people fleeing the country does not paint strong resolution in my mind.
As for the West, we have only made the problem worse. We could have forestalled or removed the threat of Russian invasion had we only agreed to not allow Ukraine into NATO. There would be no real loss actual strategic cooperation, only face. It's no secret that the US and China are scaling up for a cold war. It's no secret that we cannot contain both Russia and China at once, nor can we fight both. Nor is it a secret that Russia is a declining power and this move is to simply preserve its survival, not grow its strength.
I think that Russia is making the right move for strategic reasons. Allowing Ukraine to fall into the hands of the West is a threat to Russia itself. All that remains is to see if Moscow and the Russians conduct themselves well in war. And thus far, the Russians have not wholly abandoned the rules of war and I'd dare say that Ukraine is more guilty of it than they (again, that being out of necessity). We'll see what happens later.
Nice soviet propaganda,and you are half-right - Biden handlers wonted that war.
You forget mention,that they made deal with Putin to made sure it start.
That is why KGBstan is stil in the mud,when they could take Kiev after few days.Becouse comrade colonel do not want quick victory,but long war.Which serve him,Biden handlers,China,Soros types...everybody who count.
Dead russians and ukrainians ,of course,do not count.And alive,to be honest,too.
But you are wrong beliving that it led to nukes dropping - dudes who started it could die ,too in that case.And they leaved that part to dudes like you and me.
@Agent23 ,what counter-escalation ? KGB arleady escalated by starting war.Only counter could be made by NATO.
And it woud happen only if Biden handlers and Putin agreed to that in their plans.
This was going to happen if the government of Ukraine is not a puppet of Russia.
Look at Belarus. Puppet state that is inept... look at Kazakhstan...
Ukraine didn't want that and the coup in 14 was just that. Russia wasn't happy and made it obvious they were willing to conquer Ukraine
Once Trump got in office though it stalled because he wasn't going to back down. Once he was out he tested Biden, and then this happend.
This whole thing is because if russia...
Agent23
Ни шагу назад!
Dude, I know you Poles have a thing for shenanigans with strawpeople, but I for one don't care about them and prefer spinning doges, remember!
I am saying, that your country's military and political nomenklatura has probably done a cost-benefit analysis and they think that doing this will harm them more than it will help them.
But since they do not want to listen to Zelenski and his fanclub reeing on Twatter they just stall.
In any case, at this stage of the conflict I doubt 20 MiG-29s can be of much real help, although the Romanians and Donbass will probably be glad to get some extra airpower.
Oh, I don't know, a few Ukrainian neonazis with NLAWS blowing up a few of your LNG terminals, that pipeline you are trying to build to Norway getting destroyed, cuts to Gas, oil and wheat imports into the EU equivalent to 2x your consumption.
The Russian airforce going full shock and awe in western Ukraine and driving a minotherllion or two into Poland.
And probably a dozen other dirty tricks the Russians can pull.
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