Star Wars Goodbye There (Obi-Wan Kenobi TV Series Reborn)

It's already pretty dodgy. My take is that they're cramming two series into one. A series about Obi-Wan and a series about Inquisitors. The former feels like it should really have been a film, and the latter only suffers from being tacked onto what's supposed to be an Obi-Wan story. It feels both crammed and filler-y. That's not good.

The series lacks balance, I think. Because of the above lack of focus, it seems unclear about what it wants to be.

Another issue: it's very obviously Disney-fied, so that the Inquisitors can't be gruesome and deadly, and instead outright stop each other from executing people.

The actress playing the, uh... Third Sister, I think they said... is also not that good. I've never seen her in anything else, so it may well be poor writing, but there's either compelling or terrifying about her. And she kind of has to be at least one of those things.

The other Inquisitors also look like shit. They looked way better in animation. And they had a perfect opportunity to not use those retarded spinny sabres ("oh, those were just, uh... not invented yet") but of course they used them anyway. So we'll never be rid of that stupid gimmick. (I swear, if we actually have to watch the utter idiocy of the "blade helicopter" in live action...)

The plot of the Third Sister in these two episodes is beyond stupid. Way too convoluted, when she could easily have cut out three steps and ensured success.

Spoiler about that:


Worse than all of the above, however, is the illogical stuff that outright contradicts all good sense:


There's some good stuff here. But it has all the signs indicating the exact same problems Disney causes for SW projects every single time. Bottom line: they need way better writers, who have much more of a long-term vision, and far more respect for the setting as a whole.

In my opinion, the new TV series deserves a great deal of credit for being willing to pretty unflinchingly show how utterly beaten Obi-Wan is.

The Inquisitor explicitly shows that their Jedi-hunting methods basically consist of moving in on rumors of Jedi presence and drawing the Jedi out by provoking them to help people, but Obi-Wan is immune to these methods because he doesn't. He steals food for himself and stays silent when someone else is blamed and punished for it. He callously turns away a fellow Jedi on the run, knowing full well that this will inevitably result in that Jedi being found and killed by the Inquisitors.

The definite feeling of the series is that the main reason Obi-Wan hasn't fallen to the Dark Side is because he's too damn depressed and miserable to actually muster up any passion about anything. He's a fucked up pile of guilt. He very clearly blames himself for causing Anakin's fall (even though he really didn't) and for failing to actually stop Anakin and for still loving Anakin, and pretty much for everything he does and doesn't do and. . . well, you get the picture.

Skallagrim said:

Another issue: it's very obviously Disney-fied, so that the Inquisitors can't be gruesome and deadly, and instead outright stop each other from executing people.

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Because Third Sister wanted to just kill the guy and move on because she dismissed him as unimportant small fry, whereas the Grand Inquisitor wanted to take him alive for interrogation. There was absolutely no mercy there.

The other Inquisitors also look like shit. They looked way better in animation. And they had a perfect opportunity to not use those retarded spinny sabres ("oh, those were just, uh... not invented yet") but of course they used them anyway. So we'll never be rid of that stupid gimmick. (I swear, if we actually have to watch the utter idiocy of the "blade helicopter" in live action...)

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In my opinion, the "stupid gimmick" Inquisitor spinnysaber actually makes sense -- much like Grievous' spinny arms, it allows an Inquisitor with intentionally limited combat training to easily defeat the average Jedi survivor (who was probably only a youngling in the Order or at best a junior Padawan) using intimidation and a weapon that is hard for someone with only elementary basic lightsaber training to counter.

Of course, the gimmick falls apart, literally and figuratively, against a truly skilled Jedi, but those aren't who the Inquisitors are for, and moreover such Jedi were *rare* even at the height of the Order. The majority of "fully trained" Jedi are shown to have only mediocre lightsabre skills, and Order 66 rather neatly killed most of the combat-oriented Jedi who were conveniently on the front lines of the war.

(There's also probably a good deal of selfish personal indulgence by the Grand Inquisitor, who per Rebels was a former Temple Guard and thus had an established preference for a double-bladed saber pike. Arming the entire Inquisitorius with a weapon variant that he's specifically good with is a pretty good way of staying on top, isn't it?)

Spoiler

She had young Leia kidnapped so that Bail -- who she for some reason knows was a very good friend of Obi-Wan -- will go to Obi-Wan. She deliberately allowed Bail to track the kidnappers, so Bail knows where to send Obi-Wan. And then Obi-Wan goes to save Leia, and she's there to catch him!

Obvious alternative: just track Bail when he goes to find Obi-Wan. Now you know where Obi-Wan is, and you can kill him on the spot. Also, don't go alone. Bring your team.

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I was worried that Obi Wans "Special Mission" he got for Episode II didn't seem very canon considering the character interactions that occurred in the later Original Trilogy but... It looks like they did drop some little callbacks to the Sequel Trilogy at least.

The latest episode...is hard to describe in words; it must be seen to be understood.

We do get confirmation that at least one other famous Jedi who's fate was in the air survived Order 66.

And now we might also know why Obi-wan likely looked so old in ANH.

Skallagrim said:

Another issue: it's very obviously Disney-fied, so that the Inquisitors can't be gruesome and deadly, and instead outright stop each other from executing people.

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Yeah... I think that has more to do with not wasting resources and general dark-sider bullying of each other especially given episode 3.

Problem: she wanted to get all the credit herself. You have to remember, these are semi-Sith Darksiders whom personal advancement and power is their core motivation. Sharing credit with her squad for the capture goes against everything she philosophically believes and has been taught and her own personal feelings.

There's a reason the Rule of Two became a thing, Dark siders infight and undercut each other consistently to the point where it hinders them. We're seeing that play out with the Inquisitors quite well.

Spoiler

There's a guy pretending to be a Jedi to scam people. On a planet swarming with Stormtroopers. And Inquisitors who actively hunt down Jedi. It's like someone in Nazi Germany deliberately pretending to be a Jew during Kristallnacht. At no point is the insanity of this even mentioned

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Bacle said:

The latest episode...is hard to describe in words; it must be seen to be understood.

We do get confirmation that at least one other famous Jedi who's fate was in the air survived Order 66.

And now we might also know why Obi-wan likely looked so old in ANH.

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Err...yeah.

In regards to this third episode I liked the first half where they were just travelling. Second half was pretty underwhelming.

I find this series a fair bit superior to The Book of Boba Fett but it's still not say it's solidly in the Good Category IMHO. Despite it's many flaws I would say I'm still liking the show overall though. Perfectly watchable. Don't really care for any of the villains and they get less and less interesting with every passing episode.

Husky_Khan said:

In regards to this third episode I liked the first half where they were just travelling. Second half was pretty underwhelming.

I find this series a fair bit superior to The Book of Boba Fett but it's still not say it's solidly in the Good Category IMHO. Despite it's many flaws I would say I'm still liking the show overall though. Perfectly watchable. Don't really care for any of the villains and they get less and less interesting with every passing episode.

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Unfortunately, the trend that Imperial characters are *only* fleshed out in interesting ways if they're preordained to turn their coats and become Rebels is something that dates all the way back to the old EU, and thus Disney can't really be blamed for it.

I do find the backstabbing ambition of the Empire's various 'lesser' Dark Siders, both individually and as factions to be reasonably interesting, though.

So there is a neat Easter Egg in the the credits that I just learned about.

The young, Force sensitive boy, whose mother was taking him to Corellia with the help of that Jedi/scam artist.

His name in the credits is Corran.

We know there is a Rogue Squadron movie at least in a shelved status, but not cancelled.

Ponder on that for a sec.

ShadowArxxy said:

Unfortunately, the trend that Imperial characters are *only* fleshed out in interesting ways if they're preordained to turn their coats and become Rebels is something that dates all the way back to the old EU, and thus Disney can't really be blamed for it.

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That's not even what I'm talking about. But even if it was it is Disney's fault if that is the trope they're feeling crippled by. The thought they can't be blamed for shitty writing or production because poor product existed before Disney is an aberrant take and a shallow defense of Disney.

But no episode turned balls when the Baddies showed up in full force and we had that underwhelming climatic confrontation. If your going to stretch canon... Or break it for a good story I'm on board. But it was balls.

ShadowArxxy said:

I do find the backstabbing ambition of the Empire's various 'lesser' Dark Siders, both individually and as factions to be reasonably interesting, though.

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The interpersonal interactions between the Inquisitors is so bland and boring I couldn't give a crap. I just went through watching Luke Cage and part of Daredevil on Disney Plus. The backstabbing ambition there was a thousand times more interesting.

Don't get me wrong the Inquisitors were forgettable to me in Rebels as well but I found them marginally interesting in Episode One when they appeared to have some nuance beyond Stupid Evil but that's kinda gone down the garbage chute with the cartoonishly shallow level of backstabbing ambition' I've seen amongst them. It was actually handled better in the cartoons I feel. Here I'm not sure how they can function in the least at their current level of bald faced disloyalty.

I hope some depth is added more to the remaining Inquisitors beyond Predictable Backstab Theater because three episodes in they're all shallow as fuck.

Now, now, we can't make the bad guys too nuanced or interesting or people might actually like them and think they're cool, and we can't have that.

Jeremy Jahns clearly wants to like it so very much...

...and he still ends up outlining all the problems with how this series is being done.

I cannot believe how many people are bitching about this show, or the 3rd Sister's actress.

This show has been great, and the only quibble most people I've seen talk about is the fate of the Grand Inquisitor, which can be chalked up to 'he was healed by the time of Rebels 5 years later, his species has two stomachs'.

It's like people only want to try to find the 'bad' stuff in Star Wars anymore, to shit on Disney and any 'wokeness', instead of just enjoying the content in any way.

Well one good thing. When the three bounty hunters chased the ten year old Leia through the woods and she ran like a literal girl somehow outrunning and evading them all and causing them to slip and run into trees for a prolonged period of time was pretty amazing to witness. Like I was wondering if I should laugh or if this was some elaborate feint because these goons seemed really incompetent. But then they somehow outsmarted all of those royal Alderaanian guards and blew one away right in their own backyard. When they threw that sack over her we couldn't stop laughing and riffing on it. It was thoroughly entertaining. 😁

Way more entertaining then many of the action scenes in the Book of Boba Fett series. 😏

I was also happy when the Grand Inquisitor spinny sabered that head Bounty Hunter, Asdrubel Vect or whatever his name was, to death. I really didn't want to see him or his cronies mucking up the series anymore. They served their purpose. 😛

Also we need to do a What If? thread on the following...

I understand why Bail Organa trusted Obi Wan to rescue his daughter because she's all force sensitive and stuff and he can only trust Obi Wan. It doesn't really wash with me because... apparently he knew what ship they were on and everything but had to keep it quiet for reasons... blah blah blah. But that's fine, I don't wanna nitpick too much if it results in a good watch. But imagine how hilarious it would've been if he did send out the Army, they captured the ship, captured the flunkies and its revealed the Third Sister and Inquisition is abducting Senator's daughters for nebulous reasons publicly... 😯

Husky_Khan said:

Well one good thing. When the three bounty hunters chased the ten year old Leia through the woods and she ran like a literal girl somehow outrunning and evading them all and causing them to slip and run into trees for a prolonged period of time was pretty amazing to witness.

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I actually didn't object to that scene as much as you might think. Having grown up in the woods and also hiked and done all kinds of camping growing up the difference between a person who knows a woods and those who don't can be EXTREME. While there were a few scenes where it was clear the adults were pulling their steps as to not catch up with Leia, when she was using the trees and stumps and other environmental factors to evade them I actually could buy it. They only could react to what was immediately ahead of them, whereas Leia I felt moved through the area like someone who was familiar with it and so was a step or two ahead.

So some people did breakdowns of the 'hideout' room, and have picked out at least 3 more names:
Dume aka Caleb Dume aka Kanan Jarrus
Valin Halcyon aka Hal Horn, Corran Horn's father (with Corran already being the credited name of the kid going to Corellia, interesting connection)
Djinn Altis


Edit: Another vid on this, with even more names picked out:


We got Roganda Ismaren, an Emperor's Hand from the 'Children of the Jedi' book, and later as a chopped up corpse in the NJO. Seems less likely she's going to be an Emperor's Hand if she's in the Jedi Underground Rail Road at this point.

Bacle said:

We got Roganda Ismaren, an Emperor's Hand from the 'Children of the Jedi' book, and later as a chopped up corpse in the NJO. Seems less likely she's going to be an Emperor's Hand if she's in the Jedi Underground Rail Road at this point.

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That's actually consistent with her backstory from Legends; she was a Jedi Initiate who was smuggled to a safehouse on Belsavis, and captured by Inquisitors after that safe-fortress was breached.

(Note that while the Inquisitors didn't really take a center stage role until Star Wars: Rebels and are thus often thought of as Disney-canon, they actually date back to Kevin J. Anderson's Young Jedi Knights series of the 90s.)

Edit: Also note that Ismaren's backstory is *way* darker than it was probably intended to be, because it means that she became the Emperor's consort and then subsequently an Emperor's Hand when she was *in her early teens*. She was explicitly trained as a Hand *before* she had her son, she was eighteen *then*, and unlike Mara Jade who was canonically mostly used as a top-level messenger, Roganda was explicitly set up as a seductress and assassin.