Lord Sovereign
The resident Britbong
In terms of out of control spending, Aid to Ukraine is almost the least of our concerns. I don’t why people throw a bitch fit about that when stuff like Welfare absolutely dwarfs it.
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Russia-Ukraine War Political Discussion
- Thread starter Zachowon
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As I suspected the explosion in St. Petersburg was due to lack of maintenance and failure to manage pressures. With Nordstream shut down they should have decommissioned or reduced flow to compensate. They chose to continue at full capacity resulting in overpressure. With lack of maintenance the safeties that were actually installed failed. Resulting in the pipe explosion.
DarthOne
☦️
Probably because the welfare is at least (supposedly) spent on American citizens and not foreigners.
King Arts
Well-known member
Wellfare is spent on Americans. Foreign aid is not.
If Democrats bribe their electorate with public money to continue supporting them despite all their failures, is it a benefit to America and its national interests, or quite the opposite?
King Arts
Well-known member
It's more of a bennefit than giving aid to other nations. Why should we care if Iran and Israel get into a tiff. Why should we care about a non NATO nation getting invaded. If conservatives are too stupid they want to waste money on foreign adventures and not give anything to Americans. Then the liberals will be the better choice for the common man. Yes they will waste money on foreign adventures, but they will at least get something out of it. Not giving "gibs" is stupid, avoiding it is dumb. People will act in their interest if it's not in the interest of people to vote conservative they want no ammount of chest beating about the virtues of fiscal conservatism, or worshipping the free market will change that.
Populists could at least understand that, but the neo cucks in the uniparty like giving gibs to bussiness and helping the MIC by getting involved in foreign entanglements.
More needs to be wreaked if Ukraine wants to win this war,
That said I think were at the point where victory is possible for them.
It's not 18th century anymore, an ocean isn't enough to get away with isolationism.
You will care at the gas station if ME is on fire.
Because one of NATO's main rivals is going on a open militant landgrab in Europe. Wilful blindness to everything happening just outside NATO member borders is not within NATO articles for a reason.
You are giving plenty to Americans. And unfortunately for you, a lot of it to bribe them to vote Democrat. It is an interesting question if that's in fact better for the country than using the money to build a pyramid on the Moon or something like that would be.
Have you considered that, say, small business owners and their families are GOP electorate?
The more businesses go bankrupt the more gibs the people will want and the less tax revenue you will have to give them out.
Trying to make people pick between supporting both the US Right and supporting Ukraine are wonderful little examples of why the Left have been able to successfully utilize the Russia-gate to the point some foolish conservatives turned it a near truth with how much they want to let Russia fuck over Ukraine, and blame the conflict for problems that started years, or decades, before they were born.
The KGB/FSB were getting good return on all the Leftist academics, and their appeals to 'trad-conservatism/machoness' under Putin, up until they actually began the invasion of Ukraine.
Russia needs to be made to give up all the illegal taken lands it's tried to claim since WW2 and the fall of the USSR.
Russia should not be invaded, but it should not be allowed to keep it's illegally occupied areas, and it needs to be a lesson to the Russian people themselves about how the world isn't going to destroy them wholesale, but also won't let them keep other nations lands out of fear anymore.
And frankly if the West were to threaten Russia with using Letters of Marque against their assets in international waters if they don't, it will show the west is serious, without escalating to anything other than an older form of proxy warfare.
Never forget, George Washington's homegrown navy started out mostly as local pirates and foreigner sympathetic to his cause; we'd just be returning to tradition, as it were.
The KGB/FSB were getting good return on all the Leftist academics, and their appeals to 'trad-conservatism/machoness' under Putin, up until they actually began the invasion of Ukraine.
Personally, I think it's time to finally address the Kurile's, South Ossetia, and Konigsberg/Kaliningrad.
Russia needs to be made to give up all the illegal taken lands it's tried to claim since WW2 and the fall of the USSR.
Russia should not be invaded, but it should not be allowed to keep it's illegally occupied areas, and it needs to be a lesson to the Russian people themselves about how the world isn't going to destroy them wholesale, but also won't let them keep other nations lands out of fear anymore.
And frankly if the West were to threaten Russia with using Letters of Marque against their assets in international waters if they don't, it will show the west is serious, without escalating to anything other than an older form of proxy warfare.
Never forget, George Washington's homegrown navy started out mostly as local pirates and foreigner sympathetic to his cause; we'd just be returning to tradition, as it were.
Aldarion
Neoreactionary Monarchist
Because:
1) Discussing it does not harm the official / mainstream narrative as much as discussing the welfare.
2) Welfare can be excused as "doing something for people of the US". Ukraine? Not so much.
3) For the Left, welfare is a sacred cow. And some on the Left also like Putin, because he opposes the US, so they want to sabotage anything done against Russia.
Seems some Russians, including someone who may be related to Kalashnikov himself, are done pretending the Russian's are at all justified in bombing peaceful cities or threatening to wipe Kharkov or Kyiv off the map. They seem to get that Russia is both in a weak position, and that bombing civies doesn't affect the frontlines all that much, and just hardens resolve.
They also seem to get that Russia is so weak conventionally now that they are having to use up strategic reserve nuclear-capable PGMs as conventional weapons and penetration aids.
mrttao
Well-known member
You seem to be fundamentally misunderstanding what a bankrupcy actually means
It does not mean "we stop producing that good"
If Boeing went bankrupt, it is because of gross mismanagement. giving it more tax money is just going to get pissed away on bonuses to the execs (just like banks bailout was).
If Boeing went bankrupt, all the factories it has will continue producing all the goods. Just under new ownership, as they are sold off to other companies who can manage it better
mrttao
Well-known member
Whataboutism of the type 1 (strawman) variety.
I throw lots and lots of bitch fits about welfare.
But we are currently at this very moment talking about ukraine.
And you guys are throwing counter-bitch-fits at me for daring to suggest I want it cut along all other frivolous spending.
Given the choice to cancel only one between cancelling some stupid welfare program and cancelling the ukraine aid...
I would choose to cancel the more expensive one. meaning the welfare program.
seriously? you calling me a leftist? just wow.
Heh. the leftists are calling me a nazi because I am not anti-white.
Now the right wingers are calling me a leftist for not wanting my money stolen for foreign aid.
Idunno, i for one think having many, many elements of such a large corporation being sold off to different bidders would do a pretty damn good job of stopping production of most of its products for a long time at least. But if you want to be a smartass about it, that speaks of how much of a clue you have about this stuff.
mrttao
Well-known member
1. there are multiple tiers of bankrupcy. Usually it results in restructuring rather than selling off pieces piecemeal
2. even if it gets down to it... ok so? you think the companies buying those factories and IP are just going to not use it?
3. here is a brilliant idea. rather than a bailout from taxpayer money. You simply instruct the bankrucpy adjucators to require bundling of certain factories and IPs together to ensure that production is not disrupted.
Aldarion
Neoreactionary Monarchist
Reading comprehension much? I never said anything about whether aid for Ukraine is good or bad, nor did I say that "if one argues for X, he must be Y". I only explained why some on the Left oppose aiding Ukraine against Russia.
King Arts
Well-known member
So most of the territory makes sense. But I have a question about Kaliningrad? How is it illegal? I mean the majority is Russian. That land has either been Russian or German. The Germans do not want it that would just be reopening one of the reasons for ww2 there would then be a desire for a land corridor, since that city would be surrounded with polish territory. Poland would be the easiest to take it from a map based standpoint but what is polands claim to that territory they neither historically owned, nor have they a majority ethnic population there.
mrttao
Well-known member
Context. We are currently having an argument about it
So it seemed like you are accusing the people here in this thread opposing foreign aid, instead of in general.
But fine. thanks for clarifying that you do not mean us.
Actually, out of curiosity.
Who are the democrats opposing the financial aid to ukraine?
Aldarion
Neoreactionary Monarchist
Yeah, np.
I don't know about Democrats, but Far Left activist generally are opposed to helping Ukraine. In fact, even MSM noticed that:
Why America’s Far Right and Far Left Have Aligned Against Helping Ukraine
The discourse surrounding Russia’s war on Ukraine has created strange bedfellows.
foreignpolicy.com
Noam Chomsky is the most prominent Leftist I know of who opposes the aid to Ukraine.
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