Armchair General's DonbAss Derailed Discussion Thread (Topics Include History, Traps, and the Ongoing Slavic Civil War plus much much more)

Husky_Khan said:

Russian Forces Suffering Substantial Frostbite Casualties.

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If that's true they've learned absolutely nothing about how to be out and about when it's below freezing and there's ice on the ground despite centuries of having to deal with it.

Either that or the Russian leadership simply doesn't give a shit about the Russian people - which is pretty much SOP for Russian powers-that-are.

WolfBear said:

The crucial question to ask here is just how good these children's biological parents' genes were.

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WolfBear said:

The genes for high intelligence and the genes for good character are not necessarily the same ones. One can be high-IQ AND be a sadist and/or sociopath, for instance.

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You really need to stop focusing on people's 'genes' as heavily as you do in topics that have nothing to do with genetics or biology, instead of the individual situations people find themselves in.

It makes you sound like a eugenicist and like you support getting rid of 'undesriables'.

WolfBear said:

The crucial question to ask here is just how good these children's biological parents' genes were.

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Good grief, you really are wilfully blind to half of the nature vs nurture argument, aren't you?

bintananth said:

Either that or the Russian leadership simply doesn't give a shit about the Russian people - which is pretty much SOP for Russian powers-that-are.

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Yup, this one.

Bacle said:

You really need to stop focusing on people's 'genes' as heavily as you do in topics that have nothing to do with genetics or biology, instead of the individual situations people find themselves in.

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The topic was the cause of the bad life outcomes of children in single parent homes, no?

It makes you sound like a eugenicist and like you support getting rid of 'undesriables'.

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The latter is purely evil, so No, I certainly don't support that. But I do support making future generations smarter and healthier through things such as IVF plus embryo selection for desirable traits/genes.

Husky_Khan said:

Russian Forces Suffering Substantial Frostbite Casualties.



Ukrainian Troops Arriving in Spain For Training As Well.



South Korea Sends one hundred Pickup Trucks and a few 'mini' Excavators to Ukraine.



Ford Raptor Has 80mm MLRS Mounted on It. Typically this weapon system is mounted on aircraft.



Putin reveals it was apparently it was actually Ukraine who started targeting infrastructure in this Special Military Operation, not Russia.

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First thought on seeing those Technicals?

"For the GLA!"

S. Korea knows full well that those vehicles are going to become Technicals. "Humanitarian aid", my ass, lol.

WolfBear said:

The topic was the cause of the bad life outcomes of children in single parent homes, no?



The latter is purely evil, so No, I certainly don't support that. But I do support making future generations smarter and healthier through things such as IVF plus embryo selection for desirable traits/genes.

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I'm not simply b/c it pretends that we're smarter than nature.

We have no idea what gene combinations actually produce. We really don't. It's a crapload of guesswork right now. If you force certain results than you lose nature's random production of pure awesome.

What you propose would stagnate our population.

WolfBear said:

The topic was the cause of the bad life outcomes of children in single parent homes, no?



The latter is purely evil, so No, I certainly don't support that. But I do support making future generations smarter and healthier through things such as IVF plus embryo selection for desirable traits/genes.

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Dude that is literally out of the Eugenics Handbook. Eugenics is one of the greatest evils of the 20th Century. So many people were killed, Maimed, Sterilized and had their lives destroyed because of that movement. No good ever came from it. NONE!!!!

WolfBear said:

The topic was the cause of the bad life outcomes of children in single parent homes, no?



The latter is purely evil, so No, I certainly don't support that. But I do support making future generations smarter and healthier through things such as IVF plus embryo selection for desirable traits/genes.

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You are correct single parent house holds do usually produce worse outcomes.

However, trying to link anything to genetic in that argument is where you shift in to eugenics territory. IFV for the purposes of embryo selection, as opposed to because of fertility issues, is pure eugenics.

And this is hardly the first place you've push this sort of eugenicist stuff either; you bring up genes and genetics in like 1/2 of your arguments, and usually gloss over the 'nuture' part or just ascribe 'nuture' related stuff to genetics.

You really do not seem to get how close to fucking Mengele's shit you are treading.

Jormungandr said:

First thought on seeing those Technicals?

"For the GLA!"

S. Korea knows full well that those vehicles are going to become Technicals. "Humanitarian aid", my ass, lol.

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These days the GLA boot-strap tech seems more and more plausible.

Sailor.X said:

Dude that is literally out of the Eugenics Handbook. Eugenics is one of the greatest evils of the 20th Century. So many people were killed, Maimed, Sterilized and had their lives destroyed because of that movement. No good ever came from it. NONE!!!!

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You don't consider the near-elimination of Down's Syndrome in Europe to be a good thing? Some or even many pro-choicers probably do.

Bacle said:

You are correct single parent house holds do usually produce worse outcomes.

However, trying to link anything to genetic in that argument is where you shift in to eugenics territory. IFV for the purposes of embryo selection, as opposed to because of fertility issues, is pure eugenics.

And this is hardly the first place you've push this sort of eugenicist stuff either; you bring up genes and genetics in like 1/2 of your arguments, and usually gloss over the 'nuture' part or just ascribe 'nuture' related stuff to genetics.

You really do not seem to get how close to fucking Mengele's shit you are treading.

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I'll tell you what: How about we wait for several decades and see what exactly the results will show in regards to this. And FWIW, a lot of people do support voluntary eugenics, though occasionally they support eugenics a little too far when the eugenics that they support stops being voluntary, which is obviously completely unacceptable:


I do want to say something else, though: People who reproduce with the help of sperm/egg donors sure as Hell care about the power of genes and heredity. Else, they wouldn't care so much who exactly their sperm/egg donor is actually going to be. The child's upbringing will be the same either way, after all. It's only their genes that will differ.

Voluntary eugenics does not appear to be a fringe position even nowadays. Though maybe it will become one if scientists can ever prove that genes don't actually matter very much in life outcomes.

WolfBear said:

You don't consider the near-elimination of Down's Syndrome in Europe to be a good thing? Some or even many pro-choicers probably do.

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It is not our job to play God. No Eugenics. It always leads to bad outcomes.

WolfBear said:

I'll tell you what: How about we wait for several decades and see what exactly the results will show in regards to this. And FWIW, a lot of people do support voluntary eugenics, though occasionally they support eugenics a little too far when the eugenics that they support stops being voluntary, which is obviously completely unacceptable:

Aella (@Aella_Girl)

Eugenics Poll Thread: what do you consider to be eugenics, and do you support it? If possible, please vote for the 'eugenics' part only; if you disagree with other parts of the scenario (like if you object to government funding on principle) please ignore thatPOLL 1:

nitter.1d4.us

I do want to say something else, though: People who reproduce with the help of sperm/egg donors sure as Hell care about the power of genes and heredity. Else, they wouldn't care so much who exactly their sperm/egg donor is actually going to be. The child's upbringing will be the same either way, after all. It's only their genes that will differ.

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A lot of people supported sterilizing Italians, Jews, Irish, Polish and other ethnic groups back during the Early 20th Century too. And we all know what that resulted in. Just because a lot of people support something does not make it a good thing.

Sailor.X said:

A lot of people supported sterilizing Italians, Jews, Irish, Polish and other ethnic groups back during the Early 20th Century too. And we all know what that resulted in. Just because a lot of people support something does not make it a good thing.

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Who specifically? Because I know that mentally disabled people were forcibly sterilized back then (which was obviously evil and should never have happened), but I've never read of any 20th century eugenicists other than Nazis calling for sterilizing those groups. American eugenicists generally simply stopped wanting to admit those groups into the US in large numbers:

WolfBear said:

Who specifically? Because I know that mentally disabled people were forcibly sterilized back then (which was obviously evil and should never have happened), but I've never read of any 20th century eugenicists other than Nazis calling for sterilizing those groups. American eugenicists generally simply stopped wanting to admit those groups into the US in large numbers:

Re-forging America; the story of our nationhood, by Lothrop Stoddard ...

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You really have not done any deep research then because it was very much a thing in the US.
America’s Hidden History: The Eugenics Movement | Learn Science at Scitable (nature.com)

Edit: But I think this subject would be better in another thread because at this point we are derailing this thread.

Sailor.X said:

You really have not done any deep research then because it was very much a thing in the US.
America’s Hidden History: The Eugenics Movement | Learn Science at Scitable (nature.com)

Edit: But I think this subject would be better in another thread because at this point we are derailing this thread.

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I don't see anything there about forcibly sterilizing entire ethnic groups.

And this is a derailment thread, so it should be good here.

WolfBear said:

I don't see anything there about forcibly sterilizing entire ethnic groups.

And this is a derailment thread, so it should be good here.

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That is because unlike Germany damn near everyone in the US back then had guns. And some of these officials ate some bullets.

WolfBear said:

I don't see anything there about forcibly sterilizing entire ethnic groups.

And this is a derailment thread, so it should be good here.

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Read up on the involuntary sterilizations of women on Indian Reservations.

That shit is horrendous, happened not that long ago, and the US gov likes to pretend it never happened.

WolfBear said:

You don't consider the near-elimination of Down's Syndrome in Europe to be a good thing? Some or even many pro-choicers probably do.

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Uh, yeah, and that makes them fucking monsters. People with Down syndrome can still lead productive, happy lives and an increasing number of them do just that as treatments improve (with modern medicine someone with Down's can reasonably expect to live to 60, for instance) - it's not an immediately and incurably fatal birth defect like anencephaly. It's not for nothing that the casualness with which countries like Iceland have exterminated their populace with Down's in the womb has become a talking point in pro-life circles.

Bacle said:

Read up on the involuntary sterilizations of women on Indian Reservations.

That shit is horrendous, happened not that long ago, and the US gov likes to pretend it never happened.

Forced Sterilization of Native Americans | Encyclopedia.com

Forced Sterilization of Native AmericansDuring the late 1960s and the early 1970s, a policy of involuntary surgical sterilization was imposed upon Native American women in the United States, usually without their knowledge or consent, by the federally funded Indian Health Service (IHS), then run...

www.encyclopedia.com

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For all that eugenics is associated with racial supremacy, not even poor whites (who weren't Italian, Irish, or any other sort of 'white ethnic' - they were WASPs who just happened to be born into poverty in the wrong state) were spared. The Carrie Buck mentioned in that article wasn't any sort of 'white ethnic' and was the plaintiff for a case considered to be one of the worst SCOTUS ever handled, right up there with Dred Scott and Korematsu.

Eugenics is a road straight to hell. Inevitably it leads to the conclusion that human life has no innate worth (certain lives being inherently worth more than others is usually just the stepping stone before this conclusion) and those who are unworthy for one reason or another deserve no respect, therefore they can be screwed over or outright snuffed out for the 'greater good' of society's worthies; and these categories are clearly and consistently very flexible & easily expanded ones as has been demonstrated by eugenicists across states, countries and history.