Religion Christian Society Grooming (or Lack Thereof)

Likewise in the Catholic Church you have the Church, then you have the Jesuit Order. They are not the same.

There's a reason that the FBI is afraid of traditional Catholics.

LordSunhawk said:

There's a reason that the FBI is afraid of traditional Catholics.

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Why are they afraid of traditional Catholics?

S'task said:

No they aren't. Many of what are called the "Mainline Protestant" Churches are, but "Mainline Protestant" is the MINORITY OF PROTESTANTS in the US. Yes I know this sounds oxymoronic, but that is because they got to be called "mainstream protestants" back in the 19th century when they were the majority of Protestants and the name has stuck for them ever since, even though they've long since become a minority. Further, mainline protestants have not been bastions of any form of conservatism since the Modernist/Fundamentalist Split in the 1920s and 30s in which Modernists took complete control over the theology of the Mainline Churches and went full bore into multiple heresies.

And many of you are conflating what is known as "Mainline Protestants" with all "Protestant Christianity" in the US. Of course this is understandable, as much of the media like the use leaders from the Mainline to act as spokespeople for all Protestant Christians in the country because they tend to be leftist. It's meant to try and shame and gaslight non-mainline Protestant groups into conforming with the Mainline even though they have no power over them and theologically diverged a century ago.

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50.1% of all christians are Catholic. Who now allow openly gay priests while their pope makes pro sodomite statements.

citation on the 50.1%

I posted the citation on the other things a few posts ago

mrttao said:

50.1% of all christians are Catholic. Who now allow openly gay priests while their pope makes pro sodomite statements.

citation on the 50.1%

Global Christianity - A Report on the Size and Distribution of the World’s Christian Population

A comprehensive demographic study finds that there are 2.18 billion Christians of all ages around the world, representing nearly a third of the estimated 2010 global population of 6.9 billion. Christians are also geographically widespread, and no single region can indisputably claim to be the...

www.pewresearch.org

I posted the citation on the other things a few posts ago

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That does nothing to counter any of the points made. I also went through the last five pages and you've posted no citations regarding your claims on Conservatives or non-mainline Protestant Christians. The only other link you posted was to an NPR article regarding statements by the Pope.

Neither the Catholic Church nor Mainline Protestant churches define the beliefs of Political Conservatives, Evangelical Christians, or other non-Mainline Protestant Christians.

mrttao said:

It is telling that pretty much all the churchs are now pro LGBTQP
Or how christian schools are "apologizing" for promoting chastity.
Or any of the other cuckoldry from the conservicucks

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Baptist churches are still preaching that the alphabet people are servants of the devil and the end times are nigh.

mrttao said:

The pope has made some pro LGBTQP statements.

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What exactly did the Pope say? Though I will say the fact that the Catholic Church is not excomunicating people who claim to be priests and gay is a very worrying sign. But I don't think the Catholics went into heresy yet where they actually allow homosexuality and say it's not sinful.

LordsFire said:

...No, conservative positions on homosexuality have not changed.

It's sinful.

'Love the sinner, hate the sin' is a gross simplification, but handy for describing the attitude in less than a page.

And yes, that includes keeping open, and especially activist homosexuals, out of roles where they have privileged access to children.

This is the same as it's ever been.

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LordsFire you have a rose tinted view of history and you think the way they are now in your specefic region is how it always is. Raping children is a sin "Love teh sinner, hate the sin" I'm telling you that in the past you could compare and say that homosexuals were on the same level of perversity as pedos. NOW if you do that there will be conservatives who say "Now hold on a minute buster gayness isn't normal but what consenting adults do in private is no one's bussiness but their own."

That was not the belief of many conservatives in the 80's again there were sodomy laws. You are more progressive socially than freaking Karl Marx on this topic.

Scottty said:

Don't confuse "big empire" with "big government". Military leaders who dream of conquest, whose goal is to be the ruler of entire continents, are generally not the sort of people who want to micromanage the lives of all the people in that empire.

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Could you define what is big government, and what is small government? Because I don't think Putin, or Xi really cares to micromanage the lives of the people in their empire. As long as you keep your head down and don't insult the leader you will be fine. Just like other kings keep your head down and don't insult the leader and the security forces won't arrest you probably.

People don't consider that small government when they say small government they want the government from being legally incapable of doing things and affecting the people's "rights"

mrttao said:

50.1% of all christians are Catholic. Who now allow openly gay priests while their pope makes pro sodomite statements.

citation on the 50.1%

Global Christianity - A Report on the Size and Distribution of the World’s Christian Population

A comprehensive demographic study finds that there are 2.18 billion Christians of all ages around the world, representing nearly a third of the estimated 2010 global population of 6.9 billion. Christians are also geographically widespread, and no single region can indisputably claim to be the...

www.pewresearch.org

I posted the citation on the other things a few posts ago

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Again source that Catholics openly allow gay priests? I mean that the priest is allowed to be gay married not that gays have become priests. Their pope has been making pro sodomy statements however, but he has been careful to avoid contradicting the Bible directly by saying it's not a sin or that they can get married.

Terthna said:

In other words, you have no idea what the "No true Scotsman" fallacy is.

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I know exactly what the 'No true Scotsman' fallacy is.

The key is that you are born a Scotsman. Arguably you can naturalize as a citizen to become a Scotsman. It's a fallacy to say 'No true Scotsman will X,' because being a Scotsman is not dependent upon doing or not doing any given action, except for perhaps renouncing Scottish citizenship.


You are or are not a member of an ideological movement based on whether or not you pursue those ideals. It is therefore true to say that 'No true conservative believes in Big Government,' because one of the core founding principles which Conservatism exists to conserve, is the principle of limited government.


And yes, the nation was also founded on Christian morality, part of conservatism is conserving that too. You can be conservative adjacent, a conservative-leaning libertarian, etc, etc, but if you outright reject Christian morality, you are rejecting one of the core tenets of American Conservatism. Maybe possibly you could still be considered more conservative than not if you hold to all the other tenets, but if you don't believe in limited government or Christian morality, you're definitely not an American Conservative.

I'll remind you all that even though Thomas Jefferson didn't believe in miracles, and thus much of the Bible, he still believed in Christian morality, its essential nature for a functional nation, and attended church because he believed as a community leader he had to set an example of what morality he wanted the community to adhere to.

Jormungandr said:

Not all conservatives are religious, nor do they abhor homosexuality like religious conservatives do, though. Abhor the shit the Groomers United are doing, yeah, but homosexuality in itself? Nope.

Never make the mistake of equating all conservatives with being religious.

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Because to a certain brand of American conservative, 'conservatism' is about preserving/pushing Christian morality via the government, and anything else needs to be in service to those ends, regardless of political realities, changes in demographics, and the legal considerations of other faiths/groups.

To religious conservatives, the 1st Amendment is there to protect Christian churches and the faithful from persecution over religious ideals/sectarian splits (Catholics vs Protestant Wars in Europe informed a lot of the Founder's thinking about not having a state religion), with 'freedom of the press' and 'freedom of artistic expression/speech' being secondary concerns.

To admit that they have to make secular arguments first these days to get anywhere, instead of Bible-thumping, means admitting their faith does not have more power than the realities of modern socioeconomic trends, current geo-politics, and supply chain issues when it comes to the American electorate.

And the thing is, many of them are so self-righteous about their chosen faith, that they forget their faith is but one of many in this world, does not have state power in the US for damn good reason, and that being religiously preachy instead of pounding facts is often counter-productive.

Morphic Tide said:

Again, "Paleoconservative" vs. "Neoconservative" is rather important to note. This was seriously The Big Question for Republicans back in the '60s through the '90s, of full-blast "roots-only" isolationist/pacifist conservatism or adjusting to the quite radically different material conditions by engaging globally. Neither could really excommunicate eachother from "The Right" nor "Conservatism", because even with the neocons fully displaying "tradition is Your Grandfather's Axe" there's still so much overlap in policy that it takes some political acumen to grasp the difference. Unlike the progolodytes and neoliberals.

With the current state of affairs, a lot of what sets Paleoconservative positions apart are seen as, if not unambiguously are, unconstitutionally theocratic policy because arguments so rapidly degenerate to bible-thumping rather than having hard data. Because to Paleoconservatives, "because the Bible says so" is plenty enough for massive legal repercussions for homosexual activity with secular logic showing it being a very distant and poorly-considered second, while to almost literally everyone else it's a giant First Amendment red flag that they actually bring up the scripture as the premise in the first place.

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Yes, when the go to answer for a political/social question is 'because the Bible says so', instead of pounding data, facts, or Constitutional precedent, it's a failing argument from the start with most of the population.

LordsFire said:

I know exactly what the 'No true Scotsman' fallacy is.

The key is that you are born a Scotsman. Arguably you can naturalize as a citizen to become a Scotsman. It's a fallacy to say 'No true Scotsman will X,' because being a Scotsman is not dependent upon doing or not doing any given action, except for perhaps renouncing Scottish citizenship.


You are or are not a member of an ideological movement based on whether or not you pursue those ideals. It is therefore true to say that 'No true conservative believes in Big Government,' because one of the core founding principles which Conservatism exists to conserve, is the principle of limited government.


And yes, the nation was also founded on Christian morality, part of conservatism is conserving that too. You can be conservative adjacent, a conservative-leaning libertarian, etc, etc, but if you outright reject Christian morality, you are rejecting one of the core tenets of American Conservatism. Maybe possibly you could still be considered more conservative than not if you hold to all the other tenets, but if you don't believe in limited government or Christian morality, you're definitely not an American Conservative.

I'll remind you all that even though Thomas Jefferson didn't believe in miracles, and thus much of the Bible, he still believed in Christian morality, its essential nature for a functional nation, and attended church because he believed as a community leader he had to set an example of what morality he wanted the community to adhere to.

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I have a simple question for you.

If the US Constitution and Bible disagree on a topic, which should SCOTUS use to determine if a law or action is legal?

The Catholics that the FBI is scared of are the "hardline" ones, meaning the ones that are actually paying attention and don't trust Francis shit. Along with people who have issues with Vatican II and such, like ones that prefere Latin mass.

Sobek said:

The Catholics that the FBI is scared of are the "hardline" ones, meaning the ones that are actually paying attention and don't trust Francis shit. Along with people who have issues with Vatican II and such, like ones that prefere Latin mass.

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A Catholic not trusting the pope that’s pretty ironic shouldn’t they become Orthodox or Protestant then since the Pope is supposed to be infallible?

Bacle said:

If the US Constitution and Bible disagree on a topic, which should SCOTUS use to determine if a law or action is legal?

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Constitution definitely. I think Jesus meant it when he said "My kingdom is not of this world." meaning a physical political kingdom and I think history backs me up when I say that when attempts at creating New Jerusalem/Eden fail, they fail and fall hard. The bible can definitely serve as a guide of wisdom on certainly worldly aspects, but when you try to take something spiritual/supernatural and try to make it carnal it proves disastrous. Besides. Our country's rule of law is the constitution...not the bible.

KilroywasNOTHere said:

Constitution definitely. I think Jesus meant it when he said "My kingdom is not of this world." meaning a physical political kingdom and I think history backs me up when I say that when attempts at creating New Jerusalem/Eden fail, they fail and fall hard. The bible can definitely serve as a guide of wisdom on certainly worldly aspects, but when you try to take something spiritual/supernatural and try to make it carnal it proves disastrous. Besides. Our country's rule of law is the constitution...not the bible.

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I actually have to disagree a Christians primary loyalty has to be to God and what he considers Just. Now we don’t have to go and try to impose the Bible on others, but if there is a conflict between Americas constitution and for example our faith. We should go for our faith, after all a Christian shouldn’t support abortion or human sacrifice or other practices like that even if the constitution says it’s right. In that case fuck the constitution. Now of course we as Christians should obey the legal authorities if they make a law we must obey it. However if Christians become the legal authorities then they can change those evil laws and should not worship them, and treat them as moral.

King Arts said:

A Catholic not trusting the pope that’s pretty ironic shouldn’t they become Orthodox or Protestant then since the Pope is supposed to be infallible?

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Well, what do you do when the Pope is a Marxist?

Though becoming either Orthodox or Protestant is not a good choice, as both of these have their own issues. I'd say something is rotten in Christianity itself.

Aldarion said:

Well, what do you do when the Pope is a Marxist?

Though becoming either Orthodox or Protestant is not a good choice, as both of these have their own issues. I'd say something is rotten in Christianity itself.

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That’s why I recommend Orthodoxy as we knew the concept of papal infallibility was a bad idea. The Borgias should have been all the proof needed.

King Arts said:

I actually have to disagree a Christians primary loyalty has to be to God and what he considers Just.

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Then you are not an American Originalist because the hot mess that was the start of this country was rather painfully aware of Christian sectarian bullshit. The legal foundation is Deist at most because contemporary disagreements on doctrine rendered religion so completely useless as a basis for law. The entire reason the federal government has any ability to declare homosexual marriages legal is because the numerous churches and their local authorities kept rejecting out-of-state marriages for being officiated by clergy who were "wrong".

We seriously took nearly two hundred years to see anything resembling a unified "Christian" political bloc from those disagreements. This statement of yours is explicitly Unconstitutional because of England's habit of exporting religious dissidents to the American colonies making it impossible to implement without immediately fracturing the country in a repeat of the initial Protestant Reformation bloodbaths.

Morphic Tide said:

Then you are not an American Originalist because the hot mess that was the start of this country was rather painfully aware of Christian sectarian bullshit. The legal foundation is Deist at most because contemporary disagreements on doctrine rendered religion so completely useless as a basis for law. The entire reason the federal government has any ability to declare homosexual marriages legal is because the numerous churches and their local authorities kept rejecting out-of-state marriages for being officiated by clergy who were "wrong".

We seriously took nearly two hundred years to see anything resembling a unified "Christian" political bloc from those disagreements. This statement of yours is explicitly Unconstitutional because of England's habit of exporting religious dissidents to the American colonies making it impossible to implement without immediately fracturing the country in a repeat of the initial Protestant Reformation bloodbaths.

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Yup! We exported our criminals (and often innocent people accused of being criminals, sadly enough) to Australia, and we exported all of our religious crazies to the Colonies.

"They're your problem now, suckers!"

It's rather more complicated than that.

Pope Francis, for all of his flaws, is not the 'raging liberal' many in the media portray him as. He has refrained from speaking ex cathedra, and has confirmed a number of very 'traditionalist' friendly practices. The main issue is that the German church has this nasty habit of making grand pronouncements about 'Church Policy' celebrating homosexuality, female priests, wokeness, etc in press statements, which the media runs with, with the first the Vatican finds out about it all being said press statements about policies they'd supposedly approved, leading to Francis *constantly* having to disavow the German church's actions. At this time, the German church is very much in schism on just about every issue imaginable, the Curia has just been unwilling to aggressively challenge them (Jesuit influence, the Jesuit order is equally corrupt).

Jormungandr said:

Yup! We exported our criminals (and often innocent people accused of being criminals, sadly enough) to Australia, and we exported all of our religious crazies to the Colonies.

"They're your problem now, suckers!"

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Its more complicated then that.



The religous crazies were only exported to the New England area. Below that you had all of the discotents who just wanted to be left alone and essentially founded a semi libertarian strong hold that formed the midwestern mid land culture. Then you had the Tidewater which was founded by the second sons of nobility and the losers of an english civil war, Appalacia was founded by refugees from the blood soaked boarder lands who when told they would be Tidewaters new serfs promptly gave them the finger and moved into the mountains. Below that you have Carribian slave masters who wanted more land and money.

fact is america was used by the UK as a dumping ground for a lot of very different people we just hear about the puritans because america likes to pretend its a lot more united then it really is and because New Englanders never shut up about that shit.

Morphic Tide said:

Then you are not an American Originalist because the hot mess that was the start of this country was rather painfully aware of Christian sectarian bullshit. The legal foundation is Deist at most because contemporary disagreements on doctrine rendered religion so completely useless as a basis for law. The entire reason the federal government has any ability to declare homosexual marriages legal is because the numerous churches and their local authorities kept rejecting out-of-state marriages for being officiated by clergy who were "wrong".

We seriously took nearly two hundred years to see anything resembling a unified "Christian" political bloc from those disagreements. This statement of yours is explicitly Unconstitutional because of England's habit of exporting religious dissidents to the American colonies making it impossible to implement without immediately fracturing the country in a repeat of the initial Protestant Reformation bloodbaths.

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I know I’m not originalist ideologically. I support originalism most of the time for practical purposes most of the constitution is a good document it has some good ideas, and if it ain’t broke don’t fix it, but my religion and my holy document that defines my morals is the Bible not the constitution.

Religion should be what you put first because they are your first principles they decide what is morally good or bad. We can use any example you want from abortion to gay marriage to trans. Most of us here are anti abortion especially the Christians yet for the sake of the argument let’s say god came down(it’s god here not the devil tricking you) and says that the baby in the womb is not a person it does not have a soul at conception it gets a soul later. Would you still be against abortion? At that point things change.

No one who is catholic and has a issue or two with the Pope is going to consider the fucking L*therans as a alternative. They are far worse off with woke infections. Not too sure about the Calvinist types but the Anglican church is also so horrendous to the point of parody and every single woke as shit pastor and minister out there is from one of the American protestant denominations like Methodists and shit.

Most hardcore catholics are actually praying for Sarah to be elected pope once Francis kicks the bucket. He seems to know what is up.