Philosophy Inequality is GOOD.

OliverCromwell

Permanently Banned
Permanently Banned
I never read any Anti-Reactionary FAQ; not being a reactionary, refutations of it never interested me. If I were to define myself as anything, it would be a populist Christian.

Frankly? I call bullshit on this. If you google "fifty Stalins" the entirety of the search results for it consists of people referencing or riffing on Scott Alexander's NRx FAQ. You could not possibly have heard this phrase without having been exposed to it one way or another. I wasn't going to say "and it seems highly suspicious that you're misleadingly quoting the FAQ now that it's been taken down and people can no longer access it", but, well, now I am.

Can you prove him wrong?

Explain to us why the glorious god of modernity , "equality" actually is not a load of absolute dogshit.

I'm superior to a 55 IQ mentally challenged retard, and I'm inferior in physical strength to Hafþór Júlíus Björnsson.

Equality is a lie, there are superiors and inferiors. Those who are superior in intelligence, moral character, and virtues should rule, not the worthless mass of two legged gutter trash that make up most of humanity.

Really this is such a perfect example of the motte and bailey employed by most reactionaries in defending their notion of inequality that I couldn't have asked for a better strawman. Literally nobody disputes the idea that things are different from other things, and that differences on scales of measurements exist. Not even the world's most extreme postmodernist refuses to accept the fact that you are weaker than a strongman or less intelligent than me. Nobody in the world believes that human beings are literally identical in all things.

What people object to is the part where you say that "therefore, people who are perform better on these particular scales of measurement which I have arbitrarily selected as being the most important should have power to rule over those who do not". More broadly, while both your post and the OP are presented as a straightforward defense of the concept of differences existing between things (the bailey, where you profess exceptional courage in defending a concept accepted by every human being over a few months old), the actual meat of what you're arguing is a much less self-evidently true combination of the following:
  1. Certain nebulously defined qualities such as intelligence and moral character/virtue are correctly defined by some particular scale of measurement you believe to be correct (IQ or some sort of Christian ethics, respectively)
  2. These particular qualities are what makes some people better than other people on an absolute scale, rather than merely in whatever particular quality is being discussed.
  3. These particular qualities entitle people to rule over others, and not other qualities such as artistic talent, compassion, altruism, etc.
    1. Moreover, these particular qualities entitle people to rule over others in a reactionary political system, generally characterized by immense and unaccountable power being given to a class of hereditary aristocrats
  4. All liberals and leftists reject the basic concept that some human beings are different than each other in any way.
  5. Because of this, liberals and leftists cannot accept basic goods such as beauty and strength
  6. Society ought to be organized around promoting concepts such as beauty and strength, and in particular ought to be organized around doing so instead of pursuing "nihilistic" goods such as hedonistic pleasure or preference satisfaction
And I can see why! All of these things are a lot more difficult to defend than the infantile insight of "some human beings are different from other human beings sometimes." It would require actually engaging with the substantial body of criticism that exists against all of these things, rather than drawing on the greatest realization you had when you were five months old! You might have to argue against the substantial research about how IQ is strongly influenced by childhood environment and not a good measure of intelligence, or question why it is that we ought to value a particular good such as beauty and strength over others (such as altruism, compassion, etc.) to the point that we grant people the right to rule based on them, or actually read anything written by a liberal or leftist ever. And that would be hard. Too much work for a lazy ingrate, that all is.

I have neither the time nor the patience to argue against all of this, and frankly all of this stuff has long been addressed by many, many people who are much, much smarter than me, so I just want to note a couple of things before I leave.

1.) The vast majority of liberals and leftists don't reject the entire concept of beauty and strength, and I say this as somebody who actually believes that they should. The OP goes on about how leftists have turned abandoned strength for celebration of weakness, but a quick glance at almost every leftist doing that shows how these celebrations of "weakness" are in fact celebrations of the strength demonstrated by one's ability to endure through hardship or to be honest about one's weaknesses and vulnerabilities. Both of which are things that even the most reactionary person on earth would probably accept, in some sense, as "strength". One can believe that the particular ways that leftists do this do not, in fact, actually reflect strength, but the idea that they don't value it at all seems rather laughable.

Likewise, the idea that liberals and leftists are against the entire concept of beauty is just... rather laughable? Every leftist artist who argues that the western conception of beauty ignores the values of underrepresented minorities/cultures/etc. is inherently accepting the concept of beauty as something to value, and merely arguing that what our society believes to be beautiful is not actually beautiful. You can believe they're wrong if you want, but they clearly have, and value, a standard of beauty. It just happens to not necessarily be the same standard of it as yours.

2.) The nihilism that you identify as an inherent characteristic of "liberalism" and "leftism" is in fact a quality of urbanity and urban communities, an observation that was noted as early as the 20th century by Simmel and so forth. More rural leftists, up to and including the USSR, were just as disdainful of what they saw as the nihilistic decadence of Western society as you are, if not moreso, to the point where the CIA promoted modern art specifically as an example of the creativity and artistic diversity of developed Western society which the authoritarian communists, obsessed with promoting the classically beautiful image of Socialist Realism, could not understand. The immense concentration of the city undermines communitarian values and traditional hierarchies as people lose strong interpersonal connections and attachments to their neighbors and their superiors, the fast-paced nature of city life naturally prioritizes the material over the spiritual and reduces the power of traditional values, and the spread of access to knowledge encourages people to seek answers in human works rather than the supernatural and undermines the wonder of things such as beauty and belief.

You may very well defeat leftism, a transient political movement that is currently extremely politically weak, but the unending march of urbanity and urbanization brought about by technological progress that rewards concentrations of people, economies of scale, and the widespread distribution of knowledge and communications is inevitable. You may defeat your present enemies, but the way of life that you cherish--the communitarian, traditional values and stable hierarchies of rurality--is already dead. Your children will die sad, creaking deaths as they watch the last vestiges of the world they knew slip away forever.
 
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You may very well defeat leftism, a transient political movement that is currently extremely politically weak, but the unending march of urbanity and urbanization brought about by technological progress that rewards concentrations of people, economies of scale, and the widespread distribution of knowledge and communications is inevitable. You may defeat your present enemies, but the way of life that you cherish--the communitarian, traditional values and stable hierarchies of rurality--is already dead. Your children will die sad, creaking deaths as they watch the last vestiges of the world they knew slip away forever.




you're right in 200 years no ones going to care about this conversation. so my question is...why are we having it?"
 

Certified_Heterosexual

The Falklands are Serbian, you cowards.
Frankly? I call bullshit on this. If you google "fifty Stalins" the entirety of the search results for it consists of people referencing or riffing on Scott Alexander's NRx FAQ. You could not possibly have heard this phrase without having been exposed to it one way or another. I wasn't going to say "and it seems highly suspicious that you're misleadingly quoting the FAQ now that it's been taken down and people can no longer access it", but, well, now I am.

Call me a liar again, it's funny.

I've never read it, but I have heard of it. Perhaps the anonymous commenter I lifted that particular criticism from lifted it from the FAQ without attributing it? Either way, your clumsy accusation of plagiarism is meaningless—if an idea is good, it should be spread, with or without attribution. I'm not an academic, I have no reputation to uphold.
 
D

Deleted member 88

Guest
Altruism and compassion are absolutely no basis for running a civilization. Too much of them is destroying us now

I’m on my phone right now, so I can’t respond in depth.

But “urbanity” is and always will be a sign of decline and decay.

And yes I think those who meet certain standards for superiority should rule.

And I would sooner destroy the world in nuclear hellfire, then ever ever submit to the madness and degeneracy @OliverCromwell considers progress.
 

OliverCromwell

Permanently Banned
Permanently Banned
Altruism and compassion are absolutely no basis for running a civilization. Too much of them is destroying us now

I’m on my phone right now, so I can’t respond in depth.

But “urbanity” is and always will be a sign of decline and decay.

And yes I think those who meet certain standards for superiority should rule.

And I would sooner destroy the world in nuclear hellfire, then ever ever submit to the madness and degeneracy @OliverCromwell considers progress.
I mean, go ahead lol. I'm eager to see if you'll succeed.
 
D

Deleted member 88

Guest
I mean, go ahead lol. I'm eager to see if you'll succeed.
Dude, I don’t care if I am the last reactionary on earth.

I will never submit to your madness.

Perhaps insanity will prevail and civilization collapse.

People like me will be skeletons in a field. Like the Khmer Rouge. Skulls sacrificed to the gods of envy and perversity.

Your “civilization” is built on lies and empty truisms. And it will collapse into unending barbarism if it does not end in human extinction(ignoring my religious beliefs about the end of the world for the moment).

It's not a wise idea when you're already advocating unpalatable things. Just makes you look like a glow.
God I wish I was an FBI agent. I would be Agent Mulder or something.
 
D

Deleted member 88

Guest
“Achievement is raaacist and oppressive”

“If everyone is equally a failure then we will have achieved social justice-yaaaaaay!”
 
Altruism and compassion are absolutely no basis for running a civilization. Too much of them is destroying us now

I’m on my phone right now, so I can’t respond in depth.

But “urbanity” is and always will be a sign of decline and decay.

And yes I think those who meet certain standards for superiority should rule.

And I would sooner destroy the world in nuclear hellfire, then ever ever submit to the madness and degeneracy @OliverCromwell considers progress.

I mean, go ahead lol. I'm eager to see if you'll succeed.


ok knock if off before you guys give yourselves heart attacks. I know we are discussing politics here but there reaches a point of ridicolousness and we are WELL past it. The fact of the matter is even if your a die hard christian we are all going to go six feet under. If you do believe in God then your supposed to be storing up treasures for the hereafter and not WORRY about the affairs of this world. Discussion is one thing but this has gotten ridiculous.
 
D

Deleted member 88

Guest
I’m just agitated.

I see more and more overt racial animus against people with my skin color every day.

I see the unending cowardice of the Republican Party, I see people who ought not have any voice dominate discourse where they have no right to be.

The past month has confirmed my suspicious nature and general misanthropy.

I worry constantly about what shit I will have to deal with in the mad hatter gutter world we live in, and as someone going into education I worry what nonsense I will be obligated to teach.

I am concerned for my family and their futures.

I see the total abandonment of even basic common sense and the glorification of criminality, cult behavior, mob violence, and socially enforced tyranny.

I am frustrated by the failure of our so called institutions to deal with these problems.

I am angry that the God Damn Chinese are driving animal species into extinction but we can’t criticize that because that would be raaycist.

I am angry that people are revealing their true nature as docile sheep for skinning and slaughter.

I am angry that no one seems to be willing to do what is necessary to solve these problems.
 

OliverCromwell

Permanently Banned
Permanently Banned
Friendly Reminder from the Boot. There's a difference between civil debate and harassment, and posters who decide to obsessively stalk and troll a single user are engaging in the latter.
I’m just agitated.

I see more and more overt racial animus against people with my skin color every day.

I see the unending cowardice of the Republican Party, I see people who ought not have any voice dominate discourse where they have no right to be.

The past month has confirmed my suspicious nature and general misanthropy.

I worry constantly about what shit I will have to deal with in the mad hatter gutter world we live in, and as someone going into education I worry what nonsense I will be obligated to teach.

I am concerned for my family and their futures.

I see the total abandonment of even basic common sense and the glorification of criminality, cult behavior, mob violence, and socially enforced tyranny.

I am frustrated by the failure of our so called institutions to deal with these problems.

I am angry that the God Damn Chinese are driving animal species into extinction but we can’t criticize that because that would be raaycist.

I am angry that people are revealing their true nature as docile sheep for skinning and slaughter.

I am angry that no one seems to be willing to do what is necessary to solve these problems.
I'm sorry to hear that you're such a snowflake.

Also dude, you probably should be worried less about shit like this and more about the concrete facts of your upcoming life lol. Don't worry about what you're going to have to teach, worry that if literally anything you've written here gets out you're going to be fired faster than you can say "pc gone mad". I'm not going to dox you because I'm not that terrible a person and you're honestly more pitiable than repulsive, but do you really think nobody else will ever think of it? On the forum where multiple people have accused you of having a mental illness in the last two months?
 
I’m just agitated.

I see more and more overt racial animus against people with my skin color every day.

I see the unending cowardice of the Republican Party, I see people who ought not have any voice dominate discourse where they have no right to be.

The past month has confirmed my suspicious nature and general misanthropy.

I worry constantly about what shit I will have to deal with in the mad hatter gutter world we live in, and as someone going into education I worry what nonsense I will be obligated to teach.

I am concerned for my family and their futures.

I see the total abandonment of even basic common sense and the glorification of criminality, cult behavior, mob violence, and socially enforced tyranny.

I am frustrated by the failure of our so called institutions to deal with these problems.

I am angry that the God Damn Chinese are driving animal species into extinction but we can’t criticize that because that would be raaycist.

I am angry that people are revealing their true nature as docile sheep for skinning and slaughter.

I am angry that no one seems to be willing to do what is necessary to solve these problems.


I'm going to give a bit of a brown pill here. It's going to taste like it's color sake but it's the most truthful pill I can give. You can't solve these problems.

you can't keep total strangers from glorifying criminality, cult behavior, mob violence, and socially enforced tyranny.

you can't control what others will try to force you to teach

you can't save endangered species from halfway across the world

you can't control the fact that there is always going to be wolves.

in short you can't change the world, you can't save it, and your only going to hurt others by trying, and even if you could. In the end it won't matter.

What you CAN do.

you can vote. Not just at a presidential level, but also at a state and local level which is probably more important.

you can get involved in your local community join your local offices get involved in the PTA ect.

you can raise your family with the kind of values you wish to see upheld.

you can define your reality by the things you listen to and the company you keep.

Most importantly you can lead by example. Treat others the way you want to be treated. Be the light to the world, not a flame that burns the forest down, but as a lighthouse in a tempest tossed sea.

Let God and the world sort itself out. I know it's probably not what you want to hear. But it's the only truth I can give.

"No one serving as a soldier gets entangled in civilian affairs, but rather tries to please his commanding officer ."
-2 Timothy 2:4
 
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D

Deleted member 88

Guest
I'm sorry to hear that you're such a snowflake.

Also dude, you probably should be worried less about shit like this and more about the concrete facts of your upcoming life lol. Don't worry about what you're going to have to teach, worry that if literally anything you've written here gets out you're going to be fired faster than you can say "pc gone mad". I'm not going to dox you because I'm not that terrible a person and you're honestly more pitiable than repulsive, but do you really think nobody else will ever think of it? On the forum where multiple people have accused you of having a mental illness in the last two months?
One person did? Like out of the blue and got what he deserved for it.

But whatever.

It’s a testament to the Sietch’s moderator staff you haven’t been banned.
 
I'm sorry to hear that you're such a snowflake.

Also dude, you probably should be worried less about shit like this and more about the concrete facts of your upcoming life lol. Don't worry about what you're going to have to teach, worry that if literally anything you've written here gets out you're going to be fired faster than you can say "pc gone mad". I'm not going to dox you because I'm not that terrible a person and you're honestly more pitiable than repulsive, but do you really think nobody else will ever think of it? On the forum where multiple people have accused you of having a mental illness in the last two months?


dude back off. You're being just as much an agitator as he is. the fact you even mentioned doxing is quite the testament in it's own right.
 

King Krávoka

An infection of Your universe.
So you say you are against staring at screens for cheap dopamine, yet you have enabled this flurry of textual hatesex?
 

Yinko

Well-known member
but dude your talking to a man who's ancestry had little to nothing to gain from ingroups and who were up until recently in a constant state of oppression....REAL oppression and if any major political activist group had a say like the progressives or the alt-right had a say, probably would be again. Nobody has really given my kind any mercy or empathy.
If I recall correctly it was disabled Irish. Maybe I'm wrong, but let's take the Irish or the Polish as examples. Not being parts of the in-groups of the powerful does not mean that they get an out from the general rule, they still exhibit the rule within their own group and use it to survive. External pressure forcing groups like the Irish to form a stronger unit identity led to the willingness to commit violence that led to independence. Same as how Jewish group identity allowed them to remain a cohesive group for thousands of years despite constant (because of really) outside pressure.

You're taking the talk of instinctive group dynamics to automatically equate with ethno-nationalism. Power is not the cause of the group identity, it is the result, and it can come in many forms. Soft, hard, political, social, religious, any form. Without a group identity there can be no social power-projection because there is no true group but merely a mass of individuals each doing their own thing.
Honestly that's one of the reasons why I think religion is needed. Politics is just window dressing for justification and does nothing to actually control or eliminate natural instinct.
I agree. Though, I think the best you can ever do is modulate instinct, any attempt to control or eliminate it is completely doomed from the outset.
but a quick glance at almost every leftist doing that shows how these celebrations of "weakness" are in fact celebrations of the strength demonstrated by one's ability to endure through hardship or to be honest about one's weaknesses and vulnerabilities.
That doesn't mesh with the victim-hood Olympics that have been going on for decades. "The group that can claim the most oppression wins!" is not a celebration of strength, it's a new arbitrary value for determining which group gets to rule over the others, which you claimed was the antithesis of the ideology.
 
If I recall correctly it was disabled Irish. Maybe I'm wrong, but let's take the Irish or the Polish as examples. Not being parts of the in-groups of the powerful does not mean that they get an out from the general rule, they still exhibit the rule within their own group and use it to survive. External pressure forcing groups like the Irish to form a stronger unit identity led to the willingness to commit violence that led to independence. Same as how Jewish group identity allowed them to remain a cohesive group for thousands of years despite constant (because of really) outside pressure.

You're taking the talk of instinctive group dynamics to automatically equate with ethno-nationalism. Power is not the cause of the group identity, it is the result, and it can come in many forms. Soft, hard, political, social, religious, any form. Without a group identity there can be no social power-projection because there is no true group but merely a mass of individuals each doing their own thing.

I agree. Though, I think the best you can ever do is modulate instinct, any attempt to control or eliminate it is completely doomed from the outset.

That doesn't mesh with the victim-hood Olympics that have been going on for decades. "The group that can claim the most oppression wins!" is not a celebration of strength, it's a new arbitrary value for determining which group gets to rule over the others, which you claimed was the antithesis of the ideology.


Eh in my opinion it doesin't really matter anyway. When the chips are down if all you believe in is this world. your going to be fooder for some bigger animal and nature itself doesin't really care cause contrayty to what many environmentalist may think it's not a living thinking being. It's a thing. a verbal construct used to describe the world around us based on the understanding we have a the time. Frankly I think it's all doomed anyway. At this point. I'm just tired of the noise. I'm tired of the appeal to morality, to justice to authority. At this point just screeching and shouting like a bunch of baboons would have more truth to it than all of the songs, poems and philosophies written in history. In the end we all reach the same fate. either Tis man's fate to die and face judgment, or for all of reality to cease. personally I believe in the former.
 

LordsFire

Internet Wizard
Wow. This thread is full of black pills. It's particularly irritating because you have, loosely, two positions with elements of the truth arguing past each other. Both of those positions are also blatantly wrong about some things.

To sum it up:

1. There's an inherent equality to 'We are all Children of God, made in his image,' and this is what the concept of 'Equal before the eyes of the Law' is based on.
2. Equal moral value, not equal moral accomplishment, is a very good bit of ideology on the level of truth, on the level of social health, and on the level of utilitarian practicality, because it results in the most productive kind of society.
3. Attempts to get rid of meritocracy because of being equal before the eyes of the law is a blatant attempt by people to drag others down to their level, because of either envy, or they don't want to have to deal with other people reminding them that they could accomplish more by their very existence.

Modern leftism absolutely tries to tear down all standards, but it doesn't stop there, it tries to implement its own. And if you understand human psychology at all, it isn't hard to see that the standards they try to put in place of the old ones, are both designed to give them power and authority over others, and that such standards are destructive.

'Fat acceptance' being an excellent example and the most blatant of these. It's good to reject the 'anorexic model' standard of beauty, but it is even less healthy to try to push the idea that being grossly overweight is perfectly healthy. It's one thing to be modestly overweight; more discipline would be good for such people (which includes myself), but when you're morbidly obese, to say that you're healthy just the way you are is a lie. To demand that people find you attractive even though you're not only unhealthy, but so unhealthy that you can't bear children?

That's a self-entitled attitude reaching for power.

Not even God believes in freedom of speech.

Actually, He does. As is demonstrably true by the fact that He allows blasphemy, and even includes examples of it in the Bible.
 

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