A couple of Tactical Marine Squad vs Brotherhood of Steel (Fallout 4)

[The Whispering Monk]

You also need to factor in skill, which most wastelanders don't have.

Skill...
There is absolutely no comparison between the skill levels in these two forces. The Astartes force will be one that has CENTURIES of combined experience in WAR on every level, it may even reach MILLENIA of experience.

Durability...
The Bros will need to bring their Anti-Tank weaponry to bear to even have a chance of harming the Astartes. The rest their gear will be useless against the SM armor. The reverse is definitely not true. SM weapons will tear the Bros apart. If they bring out any actual SM heavy weapons...yeesh, chunky salsa.

Sense...
Every marine, between the inate sensors on their armor and the enhanced senses they are gifted with...no Bro is sneaking up on them. Each SM will be able to sneak up on the Bros UNLESS they have some enhanced equipment. It's scary, but a SM can actually sneak while wearing all that power armor.

Frankly, the Bros are toast on many toast on pretty much every level. There only hope is Liberty Prime, and, since the SM have a Thunderhawk...It's not that big a hope.

 

[Husky_Khan]

That is supposed to be the same as one shot from a lasrifle aka a flashlight.

There is also one important thing about FO weapons we should not forget, they have likely deteriorated from hundreds of years of abuse, incompetent maintenance and environment damage, and a lot of the weapons themselves as well as the ammo have been jurry-rigged into functioning in one way or another.

I remember quite a few homebrew ammo types in FO:NV, for instance.

You also need to factor in skill, which most wastelanders don't have.

Where's the evidence of Brotherhood of Steel Power Armor deteriorating from hundreds of years of abuse and incompetent maintenance? The latest Fallout games have illustrated that Brotherhood and the like can maintain power armor (along with other technology) at 100% rates.

And beyond that, the Brotherhood since Fallout 1 has had one of the three main factions within the Brotherhood, the Knights, literally has its main mission and role which it pursues to an almost religious reverence, to maintaining that technology. They've even developed ways to improve the power armor, and manufacture hardened variants of it.

 

[Scooby Doo]

Where's the evidence of Brotherhood of Steel Power Armor deteriorating from hundreds of years of abuse and incompetent maintenance? The latest Fallout games have illustrated that Brotherhood and the like can maintain power armor (along with other technology) at 100% rates.

And beyond that, the Brotherhood since Fallout 1 has had one of the three main factions within the Brotherhood, the Knights, literally has its main mission and role which it pursues to an almost religious reverence, to maintaining that technology. They've even developed ways to improve the power armor, and manufacture hardened variants of it.

Also let's not forget Prime could be in play here. If he is then its just a quick draw of Thunderhawk vs his lasers and I'm betting on Prime one shotting everything.

 

[Marduk]

Also let's not forget Prime could be in play here. If he is then its just a quick draw of Thunderhawk vs his lasers and I'm betting on Prime one shotting everything.

Heavy anti aircraft lasers are not something Astartes would be shot at with the first time, and usually they would be in far greater quantity...

 

[Scooby Doo]

Heavy anti aircraft lasers are not something Astartes would be shot at with the first time, and usually they would be in far greater quantity...

Yeah Astartes also have far more examples of dying to less.

Liberty Prime's lasers are basically Lascannons and the amount of Spacemarines that can tank that level of power are few and none for nameless marines.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

If Power Armor could be shredded by Anti-Material Rifles and heavy machine guns, Power Armor would be of somewha negligible use against Chinese tanks and infantry despite the improvements in carrying capacity and resiliency against smaller caliber weapons because they tend to be pretty yuge (at least in every Fallout besides 3 and New Vegas). It had a damage threshold of 12 in Fallout 1 & 2 plus the 40% resistance which is why you'd get those awesome random encounters where three Brotherhood of Steel Paladins would be taking on like twenty or thirty raiders armed with everything ranging from pistols to assault rifles and it'd still be a gloriously one sided massacre, with Raiders getting crits of like 0 to 3 hit points.

We haven't seen any .50's in the hands of Chinese though. Or for that matter we haven't seen what their tanks use.
Full-body protection from anything short of .50 AP rounds would be a lifesaver against 90% of battlefield weapons, and it boosts your strength to the point of carrying weapons of impressive size.

I just don't see how the official numbers can say with crystal clear clarity "Over 2500 joules" , NOT "over 10000 joules" and discussions about it face-tanking advanced energy weapons, .50 AP rounds, and other massive weapons.

Gauss Rifles and .50 BMG are approximately the same in terms of damage, and I don't think anyone would say a T-51B power armored dude would laugh off a volley of Gauss shots.

 

[Husky_Khan]

We haven't seen any .50's in the hands of Chinese though. Or for that matter we haven't seen what their tanks use.
Full-body protection from anything short of .50 AP rounds would be a lifesaver against 90% of battlefield weapons, and it boosts your strength to the point of carrying weapons of impressive size.

I just don't see how the official numbers can say with crystal clear clarity "Over 2500 joules" , NOT "over 10000 joules" and discussions about it face-tanking advanced energy weapons, .50 AP rounds, and other massive weapons.

Gauss Rifles and .50 BMG are approximately the same in terms of damage, and I don't think anyone would say a T-51B power armored dude would laugh off a volley of Gauss shots.

The Gauss rifle has like six or eight times the DPS of the Anti-Material Rifle because its more powerful per shot and can be fired far more rapidly while also requiring a lower skill (energy weapons versus small arms respectively) to be proficient in. And apparently double the crit chance as well as being an energy weapon with different damage IIRC.

So yes... a volley of Gauss shots would be quite different from a .50 BMG.

And sure.... we could put on a retard hat and assume that Chinese tanks have no weapons more powerful then a Chinese Assault Rifle which is why they were incapable of countering Power Armored troops.

In Fallout 2 the M72 Gauss Rifle did over twice the damage per shot as the Sniper Rifle, had the second longest range... to the Sniper Rifle and was specifically designed to be armor piercing and causing massive crits almost like it was specially designed to do so as the description in lore indicated.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

The Gauss rifle has like six or eight times the DPS of the Anti-Material Rifle because its more powerful per shot and can be fired far more rapidly while also requiring a lower skill (energy weapons versus small arms respectively) to be proficient in. And apparently double the crit chance as well as being an energy weapon with different damage IIRC.

So yes... a volley of Gauss shots would be quite different from a .50 BMG.

And sure.... we could put on a retard hat and assume that Chinese tanks have no weapons more powerful then a Chinese Assault Rifle which is why they were incapable of countering Power Armored troops.

In Fallout 2 the M72 Gauss Rifle did over twice the damage per shot as the Sniper Rifle, had the second longest range... to the Sniper Rifle and was specifically designed to be armor piercing and causing massive crits almost like it was specially designed to do so as the description in lore indicated.

What? FO3/NV's Gauss Rifle only fires one shot before needing to reload, it's DPS is only like 2 damage per second higher than the anti material rifle.

Additionally the Fallout 2 Gauss Rifle doing 2 times the damage of the sniper rifle isn't that absurd when you notice the Sniper rifle in classic Fallout is .223 and not .308.

Power armor troops were wrecking tanks because they were immune to fragments, blast damage, small arms, and could lug around missile launchers like it was nothing.

They weren't running out in the open getting shot at all day lmao, NCR wrecking the Brotherhood of steel shows what happens when Power armor soldiers are actually shot at with heavy caliber stuff like .50's.

 

[Husky_Khan]

What? FO3/NV's Gauss Rifle only fires one shot before needing to reload, it's DPS is only like 2 damage per second higher than the anti material rifle.

Additionally the Fallout 2 Gauss Rifle doing 2 times the damage of the sniper rifle isn't that absurd when you notice the Sniper rifle in classic Fallout is .223 and not .308.

Power armor troops were wrecking tanks because they were immune to fragments, blast damage, small arms, and could lug around missile launchers like it was nothing.

They weren't running out in the open getting shot at all day lmao, NCR wrecking the Brotherhood of steel shows what happens when Power armor soldiers are actually shot at with heavy caliber stuff like .50's.

Yes it uses less AP and despite its single shot reloading it has higher DPS and damage per shot FFS.

And I said the Fallout 2 M72 Gauss Rifle does more then twice the damage of the Sniper Rifle and then listed several other advantages of both the FNV and the F1/2 Versions so in game they are superior and from the lore, the M72 Gauss Gun was "The M72 rifle is of German design. It uses an electromagnetic field to propel rounds at tremendous speed... and pierce almost any obstacle. Its range, accuracy and stopping power is almost unparalleled." and according to the lore the Gauss Rifles in the later Fallout games were Chinese knockoff derived versions of that weapon most likely since they reference the German design.

Nowhere in the lore does it state China and Germany developed these on a lark, because they needed "more dakka." It was meant to be an armor penetrating weapon. There's no reason to create an ultra advanced, expensive, rare to produce with expensive ammunition type of weapon if a .308 Hunting Rifle is basically a few percentage points less effective.

And have you seen Power Armor? In both the first two games and Fallout 4/76 they're huge targets. Somehow automatic weapons cannot strike them? Tanks have machine guns... several of them in fact. And there are things like light machine guns, medium machine guns, autocannons on light vehicles. If Power Armor was so vulnerable to a few rounds of a Hunting Rifle or .50BMG then their impressive size would actually be a hindrance. But they weren't a hindrance because they were tearing through Chinese mechanized forces like paper in the tenth year of the War.

We already have evidence of Fallout 1/2 Powered Armored Troops being extremely resilient to projectile weapons both in game and in lore and from simple common sense. You'd need to dumb yourself down to actually believe a hunting rifle is deadly to these peeps.

Also you have no information on what forces were used in Operation Sunburst. We have no idea how many, if any, Veteran Rangers were deployed with Anti-Material rifles, only that superior numbers ranging from 15-20 to one were used. Using your interpretation fifteen or twenty Deer Hunters should be able to take out a Brotherhood of Steel Paladin squad.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Yes it uses less AP and despite its single shot reloading it has higher DPS and damage per shot FFS.

Gauss Rifle (standard ammo)
Damage: 120
DPS: 45
AMR (Standard ammo)
Damage: 110
DPS: 43
That's...Barely any difference at all.
Even factoring in the best ammo for both weapons we end up with 180 (plus -10 DT) for the Gauss Rifle and 110+80 explosive damage for the AMR.
Big whoop?

And I said the Fallout 2 M72 Gauss Rifle does more then twice the damage of the Sniper Rifle and then listed several other advantages of both the FNV and the F1/2 Versions so in game they are superior and from the lore, the M72 Gauss Gun was "The M72 rifle is of German design. It uses an electromagnetic field to propel rounds at tremendous speed... and pierce almost any obstacle. Its range, accuracy and stopping power is almost unparalleled." and according to the lore the Gauss Rifles in the later Fallout games were Chinese knockoff derived versions of that weapon most likely since they reference the German design.

The Fallout 2 gauss rifle ends up doing about the amount of damage a .50 in classic fallout would do. They kinda tried to add a .50 in the form of the Bozar but for whatever reason they ended up turning it into a .223 machinegun instead.

Nowhere in the lore does it state China and Germany developed these on a lark, because they needed "more dakka." It was meant to be an armor penetrating weapon. There's no reason to create an ultra advanced, expensive, rare to produce with expensive ammunition type of weapon if a .308 Hunting Rifle is basically a few percentage points less effective.

I fail to see how 'pierces Power armor at any range and on basically any angle' is a 'few percentage pointless less effective' than .308 AP rounds only penning on 90 degree hits within 500 yards.

And have you seen Power Armor? In both the first two games and Fallout 4/76 they're huge targets. Somehow automatic weapons cannot strike them? Tanks have machine guns... several of them in fact. And there are things like light machine guns, medium machine guns, autocannons on light vehicles. If Power Armor was so vulnerable to a few rounds of a Hunting Rifle or .50BMG then their impressive size would actually be a hindrance. But they weren't a hindrance because they were tearing through Chinese mechanized forces like paper in the tenth year of the War.

Fallout power armor doesn't really limit your movement, it makes you a good foot taller but a 7 foot target and a 6 foot target are about the same as far as a marksman is concerned.

If power armor is so invulnerable to even large AP rifle rounds, however did ANY power armored soldiers die to the NCR? What, they ALL coincidentally took direct missile impacts?

We already have evidence of Fallout 1/2 Powered Armored Troops being extremely resilient to projectile weapons both in game and in lore and from simple common sense. You'd need to dumb yourself down to actually believe a hunting rifle is deadly to these peeps.

You act like "Durr hunting rifle would be silly to kill a power armored soldier", with the term 'hunting rifle' being used as if that's a weaksauce weapon and ignoring how retarded fallout's lore is. A fucking BB gun can explode people like they're made of over-ripe tomato and that dates back to the original game.

Yes, I entirely believe that a 'hunting rifle' firing bubba's hot loads can take out a power armored soldier in the right place, range and angle of attack. Canonically god damned ENCLAVE POWER ARMOR has been beaten by raiders armed with such weapons.

Is it the best way to take out power armor? Hell no, but it WORKS.

 

[Husky_Khan]

Fallout power armor doesn't really limit your movement, it makes you a good foot taller but a 7 foot target and a 6 foot target are about the same as far as a marksman is concerned.

It does limit your movement which is why you need special training to even move around in it. The first US Army Soldiers given the T-51's had trouble falling over in the things so the military discussed adding more gyroscopic features to help prevent that. And while Power Armored shoulders can run and kneel and stand, there is far more to movement then that, especially since it's really hard to get the full range of Human movement unencumbered when the Army was regular equipping their troops with the 5mm Miniguns and the like. Yes it can carry alot but it's also a huge target. Smaller than most vehicles but far easier to hit then an infantryman with one of those vaunted Hunting Rifles or Anti-Material Rifles or something like a machine gun which is very common on the battlefield.

If power armor is so invulnerable to even large AP rifle rounds, however did ANY power armored soldiers die to the NCR? What, they ALL coincidentally took direct missile impacts?

Like I stated before, it's because as everyone says in the game they outnumbered the Brotherhood 15-20 to one. No one referenced using hunting rifles to plink them into oblivion. Furthermore I never made the statement that "power armor is so invulnerable to even large AP rifle rounds." That's just yet another Strawman. One of the two you made in two sentences, which is impressive.

Gauss Rifle (standard ammo)
Damage: 120
DPS: 45
AMR (Standard ammo)
Damage: 110
DPS: 43
That's...Barely any difference at all.
Even factoring in the best ammo for both weapons we end up with 180 (plus -10 DT) for the Gauss Rifle and 110+80 explosive damage for the AMR.
Big whoop?

The Fallout 2 gauss rifle ends up doing about the amount of damage a .50 in classic fallout would do. They kinda tried to add a .50 in the form of the Bozar but for whatever reason they ended up turning it into a .223 machinegun instead.

I fail to see how 'pierces Power armor at any range and on basically any angle' is a 'few percentage pointless less effective' than .308 AP rounds only penning on 90 degree hits within 500 yards.

You act like "Durr hunting rifle would be silly to kill a power armored soldier", with the term 'hunting rifle' being used as if that's a weaksauce weapon and ignoring how retarded fallout's lore is. A fucking BB gun can explode people like they're made of over-ripe tomato and that dates back to the original game. Yes, I entirely believe that a 'hunting rifle' firing bubba's hot loads can take out a power armored soldier in the right place, range and angle of attack. Canonically god damned ENCLAVE POWER ARMOR has been beaten by raiders armed with such weapons.

Is it the best way to take out power armor? Hell no, but it WORKS.

I don't think that Fallout has the pre-eminence of retarded lore when Warhammer 40K is involved. Or when it comes to consistency in that lore. Regardless this tail end conversation is just more mindlessness.

The Gauss Rifle is still significantly more powerful than the Bozar, faster to fire in using less AP (obviously the Bozar has burst fire) and longer ranged. In game and according to the lore the Gauss Rifle is meant to be a far superior weapon meant specifically to penetrate armor. Creating a super advanced, expensive weapon with ultra rare ammunition using fancy electromagnetic engineering and coils propelling rounds to hypervelocities just for "More dakka" instead of an actual purpose like armor penetration when as you argue, its almost equivalent to a .50BMG round and barely better than a common hunting rifle just seems like suspect logic and not terribly convincing. Are you going to invoke the early games 'Bloody Mess' perks next as a good faith argument since you are bringing up BB guns now?

The existence of the T-51 Power Armor was decisive in shifting the Great War on every front. But there's no way it could've been decisive if every machine gun, hunting rifle and sniper rifle could reliably kill them even if "its not the best way to take out power armor." We've seen that the Gauss Rifle is clearly superior to other comparable weapons not just in damage output, but crit chance, speed, and even in range almost fairly consistently across several games. We've seen that that Power Armor is nigh invulnerable to small arms in general, not just everything until the magical .308 rifle from "bubba's hot loads" shows up. In the first two Fallout games we see Paladin's taking on literal swarms of raiders armed with all sorts of small arms. Power Armor got nerfed in subsequent in game mechanics sadly but the lore has repeatedly illustrated their resiliency. If Bubba with his hot loads "WORKS" as you state, then there is literally no reason for Gauss Rifles to exist and very limited reason for use of Power Armor in combat, at least on the front line since it has armor comparable to a lightly armored Humvee, only taller.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

It does limit your movement which is why you need special training to even move around in it.

T-45d maybe, not T-51b, no reduction in agility at all.

Edgar Hardin: "Not even close. Power armor isn't something you wear so much as use. It's a weapon in its own right, and takes skill to wield. If you don't know what you're doing, you won't even be able to walk with it on. So how about a bit of quick instruction? ...There, I think you've got the hang of it now. You should be able to use any type of power armor you come across using what you just learned."

Think less 'slows you down if you wear it' and more 'no workie unless you know what you're doing, at which point you have full mobility'

Like I stated before, it's because as everyone says in the game they outnumbered the Brotherhood 15-20 to one. No one referenced using hunting rifles to plink them into oblivion. Furthermore I never made the statement that "power armor is so invulnerable to even large AP rifle rounds." That's just yet another Strawman. One of the two you made in two sentences, which is impressive.

And how'd they kill them even if they outnumbered them 100-1 if they were so invulnerable? 5.56 is even below the 2500 joules figure lmao. The NCR does have some heavy weapons but they have a lot more .50's than they have missiles and energy weapons.
The intro cutscene itself shows them using them! XD

The Gauss Rifle is still significantly more powerful than the Bozar, faster to fire in using less AP (obviously the Bozar has burst fire) and longer ranged. In game and according to the lore the Gauss Rifle is meant to be a far superior weapon meant specifically to penetrate armor. Creating a super advanced, expensive weapon with ultra rare ammunition using fancy electromagnetic engineering and coils propelling rounds to hypervelocities just for "More dakka" instead of an actual purpose like armor penetration when as you argue, its almost equivalent to a .50BMG round and barely better than a common hunting rifle just seems like suspect logic and not terribly convincing. Are you going to invoke the early games 'Bloody Mess' perks next as a good faith argument since you are bringing up BB guns now?

You get gibs in the classic games without bloody mess jej. You HAVE played them right?

Gauss Rifles seem a lot lighter and less recoil than the .50 rifles, so its not like they're inferior to the .50. Not to mention ammo weight, you can carry a LOT more 2mm EC than .50.

The existence of the T-51 Power Armor was decisive in shifting the Great War on every front. But there's no way it could've been decisive if every machine gun, hunting rifle and sniper rifle could reliably kill them even if "its not the best way to take out power armor." We've seen that the Gauss Rifle is clearly superior to other comparable weapons not just in damage output, but crit chance, speed, and even in range almost fairly consistently across several games. We've seen that that Power Armor is nigh invulnerable to small arms in general, not just everything until the magical .308 rifle from "bubba's hot loads" shows up. In the first two Fallout games we see Paladin's taking on literal swarms of raiders armed with all sorts of small arms. Power Armor got nerfed in subsequent in game mechanics sadly but the lore has repeatedly illustrated their resiliency. If Bubba with his hot loads "WORKS" as you state, then there is literally no reason for Gauss Rifles to exist and very limited reason for use of Power Armor in combat, at least on the front line since it has armor comparable to a lightly armored Humvee, only taller.

Just because .308 AP rounds can penetrate power armor with favorable conditions wouldn't make them THAT vulnerable. There aren't even any canonical Chinese weapons above 5.56 aside from the Gauss rifle and questionably .308 variant of the sniper rifle.
Even assuming they did have a GPMG, AP rounds for such weapons aren't especially common even in real life.
Again even taking the minimal estimation of exactly 2500 joules you need to be within 500 yards with a 90 degree hit.
Add angles to the mix, and layers of armor beneath the composite plates and you quickly end up with .308 needing near point blank shots 90 degrees with exotic ammo.
None the less the plates canonically only handle 2500 joules. If we up the armor to handle .50BMG, where's the extra 16000 joules of protection coming from?

 

[Scooby Doo]

If push comes to shove they could probably be desperate enough to copy/paste the Sentinel Program into T-60 suits
https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Sentinel_program_mission_report

Don't have to worry too much about penetration then you would need outright dismemberment to take down the Armor due to no meat bag pilot

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

If push comes to shove they could probably be desperate enough to copy/paste the Sentinel Program into T-60 suits
https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Sentinel_program_mission_report

Don't have to worry too much about penetration then you would need outright dismemberment to take down the Armor due to no meat bag pilot

That's be a good option, try to get a bunch of power armor drones armed with the heaviest dakka they have access to.
I don't think even a space marine would appreciate a fat man hit.

 

[Scooby Doo]

That's be a good option, try to get a bunch of power armor drones armed with the heaviest dakka they have access to.
I don't think even a space marine would appreciate a fat man hit.

Yeh and one quest involved introduces at least three units and involves the SS recruiting one.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Yeh and one quest involved introduces at least three units and involves the SS recruiting one.

SS being the Sole Survivor right?
If the brotherhood are smart, they could nab the Big Boy from Diamond City.

 

[Husky_Khan]

You get gibs in the classic games without bloody mess jej. You HAVE played them right?

Stop being obtuse. The Bloody Mess trait was a thing back in Fallout 1. I never made an argument that you required a Bloody Mess trait to gib heads. You are just strawmanning again.

T-45d maybe, not T-51b, no reduction in agility at all.

Think less 'slows you down if you wear it' and more 'no workie unless you know what you're doing, at which point you have full mobility'

I never mentioned the Power Armor slowing one down or reducing agility. I actually went into detail demonstrating exactly the limitations which this response didn't deal with at all. Instead you made up new arguments that I never made and responded to them. That's what happens when you cut out a majority of the response when you quote it.

It does limit your movement which is why you need special training to even move around in it. The first US Army Soldiers given the T-51's had trouble falling over in the things so the military discussed adding more gyroscopic features to help prevent that. And while Power Armored shoulders can run and kneel and stand, there is far more to movement then that, especially since it's really hard to get the full range of Human movement unencumbered when the Army was regular equipping their troops with the 5mm Miniguns and the like. Yes it can carry alot but it's also a huge target. Smaller than most vehicles but far easier to hit then an infantryman with one of those vaunted Hunting Rifles or Anti-Material Rifles or something like a machine gun which is very common on the battlefield.

Wow it's like only quoting one sentence of the entire paragraph allows you to strawman an entire argument I never made.

Bringing up the T-45 Armor is interesting. According to the Fallout Bible the T-45 Armor was what US Forces were using from 2074 through 2077 but they were still bogged down in the Yangtze Campaign. But it was the T-51 armor that turned the tide. The T-51, which as you state, doesn't work against "Bubba's Hot Loads" from his Hunting Rifle must mean that the T-45 was truly a terrible piece of equipment. I wonder how few "joules" that could take.

And how'd they kill them even if they outnumbered them 100-1 if they were so invulnerable? 5.56 is even below the 2500 joules figure lmao. The NCR does have some heavy weapons but they have a lot more .50's than they have missiles and energy weapons.
The intro cutscene itself shows them using them! XD

I've stated in this thread repeatedly and in other threads pertaining to Fallout and to discussions of Operation Sunburst that the Rangers used Anti-Material Rifles before. I never made the argument that they didn't use them. This is called a Strawman. You are making up an argument I never made.

And again I never said they were invulnerable. When I used the term invulnerable, there was a very important word in fornt of it. Also I've stated that numbers could overcome them. This is supported in game and in the lore. Funny enough I wouldn't be surprised if the early Fallout game encounters between Power Armored soldiers at their apex and huge mobs of raiders and whatever had similar odds to the NCR versus BoS at Helios 1. Though I'd probably put NCR Troops a cut above your average raider ofc lorewise.

Just because .308 AP rounds can penetrate power armor with favorable conditions wouldn't make them THAT vulnerable. There aren't even any canonical Chinese weapons above 5.56 aside from the Gauss rifle and questionably .308 variant of the sniper rifle. Even assuming they did have a GPMG,

So we've shifted back to the argument of the Chinese not having any actual weapons besides the Chinese Assault Rifle? Maybe they just swam across the Bering Straight to invade Alaska en masse. I don't remember seeing any boats...

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Snip

If we up the armor to handle .50BMG, where's the extra 16000 joules of protection coming from?

 

[Husky_Khan]

If we up the armor to handle .50BMG, where's the extra 16000 joules of protection coming from?

I don't give af about your napkin math which is why I never referenced it, replied to it or brought it up. I debate ideas, not calcs. 🤷‍♀️

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

I don't give af about your napkin math which is why I never referenced it, replied to it or brought it up. I debate ideas, not calcs.

If we up the armor to handle .50BMG, where's the extra 16000 joules of protection coming from?