America First Caucus Founded

LordsFire

Internet Wizard
Back in 2007-2012 I was heavily involved in campaigning for Ron Paul. My husband and I helped create a university club for his supporters, we got together multiple times a week to wave signs or go door to door, and many of us (me included) became active in our local Republican Party. I was heavily involved in our county GOP as were many of us and even at that local level, our influence was limited very effectively even at the local level. Some of those people I knew in the Ron Paul Club (which later turned into a chapter of Young Americans for Liberty and eventually thoroughly corrupted by “libertarian” leftists) went on to try to make changes in the party on a national level. They could never make significant progress.

Those are my own experiences and the experiences of those who I know personally. Maybe others have better experiences with trying to change the GOP, maybe higher numbers were needed, maybe a post-Trump GOP would be better. I doubt it though. Even Trump with his huge popularity among the party base has been limited in his ability to make real change for the better and I think time will tell as the GOP party bosses are going to reassert themselves now that Trump is out of the picture and take precautions to keep another Trump from threatening their control over the party.

I don’t oppose becoming active in the GOP, maybe it can help or at least be educational about how parties operate, but I wouldn’t count on that to fix our country’s problem any more than I would count on voting to do so.

Trying at least has a chance at success. Giving up either guarantees defeat, or leaves all the responsibility in the hands of others.

I'm an unemployed autistic man in his mid-thirties; I've got no charisma, no experience, and, more importantly, no money or connections. "Flapping my gums" is all I've got. Besides; I'm not a registered Republican, and I never will be.

I was an unemployed autistic homeless man in my 20's. Life is rough. That doesn't mean you have any moral grounds to give up.

Learn to communicate better. It's hard, but it can be done. Make connections. You might have to start at a low level, but it can be done.

Defeatism is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I will once again point out that anybody who is complaining about 'controlled opposition' or the like who, if an American Citizen and registered Republican, isn't currently or planning on becoming a Precinct Committeeman is simply blowing smoke and is 'full of sound and fury, signifying nothing'.

You want things to change? You believe the GOP is useless? Then get in the damn arena and actually do something about it, rather than flap your gums on the internet.

I'm in the process of moving. Once I'm settled in at the new area, I'll ask you for some advice on details.
 

LindyAF

Well-known member
Holding anti Semitic views isn't just some minor failing. Such nonsense should be confined to the dustbin of history were it belongs. That the modern left if willing to tolerate it on their side is proof of their evil.

Jews in the United States are overwhelmingly left-wing, for instance they generally vote democrat by margins of 70-30 favoring democrats by forty points. Despite making up only ~2% of the US population, they supply the approximately 50% of the donations to the Democratic Party. That's a huge deal- it's entirely factual to say that without jewish donations in American politics, Republicans would lose a quarter of their cash, and democrats would lose half. Money matters in politics- that would basically relegate democrats to a rump party. Many of those in prominent positions who support democrats and woke politics are jews- for instance, Wolf Blitzer, prominent CNN anchor, is a jew, as is the president of CNN, Jeff Zucker. The NYT is owned by the descendents of Adolph Ochs, primarily the Sulzberger family, including their publisher who are jews. Alicia Garza, one of the three founders of BLM, is a jew. George Soros, the billionaire behind the Open Society Foundation which lobbies to bring endless violent refugees into Europe, and contributor to Hope Not Hate, which seeks to dox anyone who opposes this, is a jew. Perhaps the most famous and memorable of the lot, Jeffrey Epstein, who had many connections to prominent democrats including the Clintons, and is generally believed to have been part of a ring of rich and influential pedophiles, was also a jew, as is Ghislaine Maxwell.

Additionally, on the other side, it is notable that of the prominent jews that are on the right in the US, many of them were deeply involved with the neoconservative movement, such as Bill Kristol and Max Boot. Additionally, several of the prominent people who those on the right felt was giving Trump bad advice are jews, most notably Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump (Ivanka is not ethnically jewish but converted). Sheldon Adelson, the GOP/Trump megadonor who celebrated someone who stole US secrets on behalf of a foreign nation, is also a jew.

If your central moral principle is opposition to "anti-semitism" then you will always lose, as will any right-wing movement or group that bases itself around this, not necessarily even because this is an essential part of the question but merely because if you are on the right, (even the spineless, toothless version) you are then opposing the preferences of a supermajority of jews, you are opposing the revealed prefernces-in-donations of a supermajority of jews, and you are opposing the preferences of a significant number of influential jews. So the people you are in opposition to are going to be disproportionately jews. Since the people who care a lot about what is and isn't "anti-semitic" are going to generally defer to what jews think is and isn't "anti-semitic." It's like having the guiding moral principle of your party by "anti-racism" when ~80% of blacks are against you. This goes double for anyone who is a nationalist, since many of the more prominent jews on the right are also against you. The standard response to this (since ~Buckley's time) has been to ever-more-aggressively attack anything and anyone on your own side that could be construed as anti-semitic, in order to "prove" this wrong, but unless this actually succeeds in shifting the political alignment of most jews, this is doesn't work in altering that, and it doesn't appear to succeed. It also makes you look like a huge loser because keep conspicuously trying to get with people who want nothing to do with you. And since nobody wants to back a loser, this makes you into even more of a loser.

Let's go back to MTG's remarks that were supposedly "anti-semitic" the aspect that was anti-semitic was that she connected a rather implausible theory about how the wildfire's in California started, and said they benefitted PG&E, Solaren and Rothschild Incorporated. Because "Rothschild" is a jewish name, this was "anti-semitic." Sure, it's kooky. PG&E were found liable for the fires, and Solaren is a start up that does appear to be trying to sell the idea of space-based solar panels, however they do not appear to have ever successfully produced any power and their design called for transmitting the power via radiowaves. But is it "anti-semitic?" Have you ever said that Soros was behind something? Like, for instance, say you think that Soros is behind backing weak-on-crime DAs in a number of cities, which has the effect of increasing crime? Well, "Soros" is a jewish name too.
 

ShieldWife

Marchioness
Trying at least has a chance at success. Giving up either guarantees defeat, or leaves all the responsibility in the hands of others.
I have never advocated for giving up, nor had anybody else in this thread to my knowledge. In fact, in my earlier post, I was saying how we need to stand up to leftists who accuse us of racism.

Well, "Soros" is a jewish name too.
Schwartz
 

The Immortal Watch Dog

Well-known member
Hetman
IWD... where did I say you weren't allowed to complain? I'm just saying that I'm sick of hearing it from people who aren't willing to actually *do* anything about it. The fact of the matter is that in order to fix the GOP and make it into the party we want to have, we need to engage and actually act, not just talk.

It looked like you were implying most of the users here who want something new and better on the right just talk. But I don't necessarily think that's true. You have to understand, you guys have a nice robust network to do all the heavy lifting for you, so a lot of Cons can afford to grouse and gripe and then go back to watching TV.

But we kinda can't, we're building up our own infrastructure right now.

Least I would hope anyone griping would have the self awareness to realize how important it is to roll up their sleeves because we're a disorganized army right now and not a proper political machine..we're not there yet.

Right now in Georgia, for example, grassroots Trump supporters have taken over the party apparatus, censored multiple officials including the Secretary of State, and are putting enormous pressure on the governor to get with the program. Here in AZ the McCain crowd had managed to force out the Tea Partiers from the party leadership (we'd taken it over for a while, but in 2018 they pushed back) next month we're going to be taking it back. In fact I'm going to be one of the new PCs.

Good! Disagree as much as I might with the old religious right, I missed their decisiveness and their ability to move.

Newt Gingrich was America's last true political boss and while I dislike modern conservatism it'd be nice to see a little bit of what you guys were thirty years ago.

If you want to change things, no matter what, talking about it doesn't do it. You need to pull up your sleeves and put in the actual work.

On this we both agree.

And I am going to ask you once, stop it with the garbage attacks on staff, I personally like you and enjoy reading your perspective, but you are really starting to push beyond what is acceptable.

Que cosa!

Back in 2007-2012 I was heavily involved in campaigning for Ron Paul. My husband and I helped create a university club for his supporters, we got together multiple times a week to wave signs or go door to door, and many of us (me included) became active in our local Republican Party. I was heavily involved in our county GOP as were many of us and even at that local level, our influence was limited very effectively even at the local level. Some of those people I knew in the Ron Paul Club (which later turned into a chapter of Young Americans for Liberty and eventually thoroughly corrupted by “libertarian” leftists) went on to try to make changes in the party on a national level. They could never make significant progress.

That requires leaders who want to make changes.

As long as they capitulate and flinch at cries of racism and care more about browbeating whites and sucking off Xi then the GOP is going to remain an enemy to its own base.

Basically until Republicans stop saying "We're not racist and we abhor racism!" every time some methed out tranny with a Che shirt whips up a mob on twitter, the party won't change.

I don't really think third parties is a viable path forward in a US context. Two party system is kind of locked in. Also, the biggest third party in the US is libertarians. I am not a libertarian obviously, and the best ways to push nationalist policies are obviously not going to be quite the same as libertarian ones. But (at least to me) the libertarians who choose to work either within the Republican party or for non-party political organizations which can then lobby Republicans are much, much more effective than the Libertarian Party.

Whose talking about third party? I'm talking about a relentless and hyper aggressive, insular and self regulating party that's goal is to erode Republican Base and force elections even in states where third parties can't be on ballots via constant social and financial pressure.

I'm not talking about competing with the GOP, I'm talking about doing to it what it did to the Wigs. Breaking it apart and either discrediting and disgracing all its machinery or absorbing it.
 
Last edited:

LindyAF

Well-known member
Whose talking about third party? I'm talking about a relentless and hyper aggressive, insular and self regulating party that's goal is to erode Republican Base and force elections even in states where third parties can't be on ballots via constant social and financial pressure.

I'm not talking about competing with the GOP, I'm talking about doing to it what it did to the Wigs. Breaking it apart and either discrediting and disgracing all its machinery or absorbing it.

That's a third party, because right now it would because regardless of where it wants to end up, it'd be competing with the Republicans right now. I don't think getting on the ballot is the biggest deal. There are plenty of third parties on the ballot in my state. They rarely win elections. They rarely ever even meaningfully elect the outcome of the election.

The issue is that in the US you've got to convince voters that your third party actually has a chance of winning in order for them to actually vote for you, which you can't do until you're actually getting voters, which you need to convince them you actually have a chance at winning for. Additionally, I think many people's conception of democracy is basically just the Presidency. You're not a "real" party if you don't have a shot at winning it, which means they won't vote for you downballot anyway, so you can't build momentum to eventually get that shot.

I think the Republicans were honestly more of a rebrand of the Whigs than what you're suggesting. Like, most of the Republicans were Whigs, IIRC. It was more along the lines of one faction of the party gaining dominance and changing the brand to exclude the others than anything else.
 

LindyAF

Well-known member
Outside of the US my impression is that third parties are a lot more viable, and I think it's entirely possible that's generally the best way for nationalists to make an impact. Lega, National Front, Sweden Democrats, AfD, etc. are all nationally relevant and encouraging. But the situation in the US with third parties is very different. Compared to Europe third parties flat out don't exist in the US.
 

The Immortal Watch Dog

Well-known member
Hetman
That's a third party, because right now it would because regardless of where it wants to end up, it'd be competing with the Republicans right now. I don't think getting on the ballot is the biggest deal. There are plenty of third parties on the ballot in my state. They rarely win elections. They rarely ever even meaningfully elect the outcome of the election.

Nor do I. Any third party that wants to devour the GOP, should be focusing on doing everything possible to push their ideology on schools, online and in the public square. Winning legal battles that trust bust the funding and monopolistic nature of the DNC and GOP. They should be building their warchests, attacking lobby groups and going after the money.

Doing as much damage as possible to weaken both parties, while making themselves as visible as possible with really large, really loud, really controversial marches.

Cause noise, make people talk about you and then begin luring away disaffected Republicans and outraged normies and maybe build some youth centers and community outreach centers where you train up the next generation.

Call it a..Civic legion if you want...Your plan should be to start getting your foot in the door in rural and suburban countries by 2028 with an aim for moving on the cities by 2032.

Become the machinery then go get the white house.

The issue is that in the US you've got to convince voters that your third party actually has a chance of winning in order for them to actually vote for you, which you can't do until you're actually getting voters, which you need to convince them you actually have a chance at winning for. Additionally, I think many people's conception of democracy is basically just the Presidency. You're not a "real" party if you don't have a shot at winning it, which means they won't vote for you downballot anyway, so you can't build momentum to eventually get that shot.

Nah, you guys have imported too many of us South Americans. Now it isn't about convincing people that a third party is viable but convincing them that a third party can become the only party by the time their kids have kids of their own.

That's how the Latin voter thinks and what they respond too.


I think the Republicans were honestly more of a rebrand of the Whigs than what you're suggesting. Like, most of the Republicans were Whigs, IIRC. It was more along the lines of one faction of the party gaining dominance and changing the brand to exclude the others than anything else.

The faction that ultimately took over the Republican party had little to do with Whig leadership./
 

FriedCFour

PunishedCFour
Founder
Nor do I. Any third party that wants to devour the GOP, should be focusing on doing everything possible to push their ideology on schools, online and in the public square.
Non viable. Ideological takeovers from within are how you do things in America. Your idea has been tried by dozens of people and they’ve all been abysmal failures. Only Trump could have potentially pulled that off, and he opted not to. Teddy Roosevelt pulled something similar and despite him being massively popular that too failed. Ross Perot and the Reform party more recently tried that, and they also failed. Working from within the party at low levels is something anyone can do and achieve results. A third party challenge requires a massive, popular and major public figure to even be a tiny bit viable, and even then it has a track record of always failing. There’s dozens upon dozens of third parties trying to do what you are saying and don’t have a major figurehead and that hardly anyone has even heard about unless they read through a random Wikipedia listing or they need to do some project on third parties in school.
 
Last edited:

The Immortal Watch Dog

Well-known member
Hetman
Non viable. Ideological takeovers from within are how you do things in America. Your idea has been tried by dozens of people and they’ve all been abysmal failures. Only Trump could have potentially pulled that off, and he opted not to. Teddy Roosevelt pulled something similar and despite him being massively popular that too failed. Ross Perot and the Reform party more recently tried that, and they also failed. Working from within the party at low levels is something anyone can do and achieve results. A third party challenge requires a massive, popular and major public figure to even be a tiny bit viable, and even then it has a track record of always failing. There’s dozens upon dozens of third parties trying to do what you are saying and don’t have a major figurehead that hardly anyone has even heard about unless they read through a random Wikipedia listing, or they need to do some project on third parties in school.


You know what the difference is between then and now?

There weren't damn near 40 million of my fellow spics in your country...A country with an absolutely abysmal percentage of eligible voters that vote.

Know what the other difference is?

None of them have a message that appeals to that emergent demographic. Or had, I should say, that's changing.
 

FriedCFour

PunishedCFour
Founder
You know what the difference is between then and now?

There weren't damn near 40 million of my fellow spics in your country...A country with an absolutely abysmal percentage of eligible voters that vote.

Know what the other difference is?

None of them have a message that appeals to that emergent demographic. Or had, I should say, that's changing.
Yeah all the more reason to not try an idea with an absolutely abysmal failure of a track record, meaning a complete waste of time, effort, and resources. You also have to think what can like, you do in your position. You can try and run for office, and to build up to any kind of position takes a decent amount of time, and you only have a chance to win if you join a real party. You can do activism, which requires you to participate in an existing group or try and start your own. You can donate money, which again, works on existing efforts. The existing, viable, and growing efforts are in working through the Republican Party to make these changes, and it’s seeing some success. Why would you abandon that and do what’s pretty much just your plan rather than try and support the efforts of others who are already in positions of influence and power and making gains?
 

FriedCFour

PunishedCFour
Founder
I don’t think that a third party can work in the USA. Changing the GOP from within is more viable, but at this point I don’t think that would work either. Our system now is too corrupt to change from within.
That’s a cope really. You can’t know that for sure but it’s pretty much the only option available. So better to try than to sit back and do nothing, and if you look at things like the civil war and revolutionary war or secessionist movements that utilizes the same systems, efforts, etc as working through the actual parties that exist. So even if you think there’s no political solution, you need to work through political solutions, because that’s how these things work. Otherwise you just sit back and stay mad and talk about things and that doesn’t really do anything. You can’t really know the future, and things have changed so drastically in the last decade politically that it’s pretty much impossible to say what the landscape will look like in 2031.
 

The Immortal Watch Dog

Well-known member
Hetman
Yeah all the more reason to not try an idea with an absolutely abysmal failure of a track record, meaning a complete waste of time, effort, and resources. You also have to think what can like, you do in your position. You can try and run for office, and to build up to any kind of position takes a decent amount of time, and you only have a chance to win if you join a real party. You can do activism, which requires you to participate in an existing group or try and start your own. You can donate money, which again, works on existing efforts. The existing, viable, and growing efforts are in working through the Republican Party to make these changes, and it’s seeing some success. Why would you abandon that and do what’s pretty much just your plan rather than try and support the efforts of others who are already in positions of influence and power and making gains?

"We have this new demographic that can and will eagerly do everything in their power to force social and political change, so long as you have the right message to hook those maniacs into your movement"

"Yeah, that track record has an abysmal failure."

Bruh we flipped an entire continent Right wing, four times and delayed the communist advance by several generations.

I don’t think that a third party can work in the USA. Changing the GOP from within is more viable, but at this point I don’t think that would work either. Our system now is too corrupt to change from within.

So do nothing? Blackpill and focus only your family?

I can appreciate the sentiment, I'm a parent as well and the urge to just ignore what's happening and focus only on me and mine is powerful.

but I know better.
 

LindyAF

Well-known member
I think there's roles for political organizations both inside and outside the GOP, I just don't see the point in doing any sort of electoral project outside the GOP. Someone wants to call your political organization a "party," I have no problem with that, but running candidates only to get 0.01% of the vote is worse than useless, it's actively damaging because it makes you look like a loser. But there's no reason an activist movement or group has to be official R branded. Hell, most left wing activists aren't official D branded.

Almost every successful movement has been, to some extent, an alliance between new blood and an old guard at least willing to say "well, better these guys than them." The best way to have that happen is to have guys on both the outside and inside.
 

FriedCFour

PunishedCFour
Founder
"We have this new demographic that can and will eagerly do everything in their power to force social and political change, so long as you have the right message to hook those maniacs into your movement"

"Yeah, that track record has an abysmal failure."

Bruh we flipped an entire continent Right wing, four times and delayed the communist advance by several generations.
Yeah my goal is to make sure that less, ideally no, people come across the southern border legally and illegally, because South America, Central America and Mexico are all shitholes and bringing in more of the third world is just going to make America look more like the third world. Hispanics just vote blue generally. They aren’t some magic change to the equation lol, and they aren’t going to suddenly make third parties viable. I’m not going to buy that until it becomes any apparent at all that there is growing Mexican third party in the US, and given that they vote so blue I don’t think it would be any good for us at all. They aren’t a particularly politically dynamic group that is going to change right wing politics, they just want more welfare, to sell drugs and/or jobs lol. All that increased Hispanic immigration has done since 1965 is flip deep red states blue, because besides taking jobs and sucking in welfare and bringing crime they are also highly reliable at marking D on ballots, with the exception of Cubans.
 
Last edited:

ShieldWife

Marchioness
I have said this so many times, I don’t advocate doing nothing. The person who thinks that 5 minutes in a voting booth once every 2 years is the person who advocates doing nothing. By all means, do that though. Keep voting. While you’re at it, make a wish when you blow out your birthday candles or if the see a shooting star. Those are all things that take essentially no effort, so let’s do it, but realize too that their chances of helping are very low too.

I would say that we need to act in ways that actually require sacrifices in our lives above and beyond 5 minutes every 2 years. Like making life choices that don’t involve giving thousands of dollars a year to left wing corporations or institutions that want to destroy you. I don’t want to detail the thread on this topic, but the right is losing in large part because we don’t live by our beliefs anymore.
 

The Immortal Watch Dog

Well-known member
Hetman

Bro you're talking to a member of that new demographic. What you are asserting is true of central Americans and its slowly changing even there.

It isn't true in regards to us and there's more of us than them coming in.

So yeah no, ironically your best bet to save America and American heritage is with right wing immigrants.

Since we wanna deport everyone who is left leaning and lock the country down too.
 

ShieldWife

Marchioness
All available evidence seems to suggest that continued immigration from Latin America is just going to make the Democratic Party unstoppable. It would be great is that weren’t true, but all of the elites know it’s true, which is why they all (including the RINOs in the GOP) support unlimited immigration.
 

Cherico

Well-known member
Yeah my goal is to make sure that less, ideally no, people come across the southern border legally and illegally, because South America, Central America and Mexico are all shitholes and bringing in more of the third world is just going to make America look more like the third world. Hispanics just vote blue generally. They aren’t some magic change to the equation lol, and they aren’t going to suddenly make third parties viable. I’m not going to buy that until it becomes any apparent at all that there is growing Mexican third party in the US, and given that they vote so blue I don’t think it would be any good for us at all. They aren’t a particularly politically dynamic group that is going to change right wing politics, they just want more welfare, to sell drugs and/or jobs lol. All that increased Hispanic immigration has done since 1965 is flip deep red states blue, because besides taking jobs and sucking in welfare and bringing crime they are also highly reliable at marking D on ballots, with the exception of Cubans.

Same thing was true for the Irish, the Italians, and a lot of ethnic groups.

It often takes people a while to see what the left looks like with out their mask on. That moment is coming for the hispanic community. In fact it has already started, it takes awhile for people to see that the 'free' shit has a horrific price.
 

LordsFire

Internet Wizard
Same thing was true for the Irish, the Italians, and a lot of ethnic groups.

It often takes people a while to see what the left looks like with out their mask on. That moment is coming for the hispanic community. In fact it has already started, it takes awhile for people to see that the 'free' shit has a horrific price.

It took many decades for that to happen, and in the last 2 decades hispanics have gone more towards blue voting, not less. There's also the fact that so many of them have come into the country illegally, whereas the Italians and the Irish didn't.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top