United States Anti-Semitism in the United States (and elsewhere)

[King Arts]

What makes you think Arabs from Palestine would have less attraction to western welfare states than Arabs from Iraq, Tunisia, Algeria or Morocco?

Has Egypt been depopulated and all of it's people moved to Europe? No then the same won't happen to Palestine.

Seems like someone has forgotten the whole Muslim Brotherhood drama some years ago, the whole military run government thing, nevermind the Sinai insurgency, which of course is... against terrorists. Some of the terrorists being related to the same organization as Hamas to add to the irony.

So you are going to bitch about "muh military govament!" I don't care if they are liberals who support gay rights or not. There is no reason why Arab Muslim states can't be stable if they aren't fucked with. There are Muslim nations that are stable.

 

[Zachowon]

Has Egypt been depopulated and all of it's people moved to Europe? No then the same won't happen to Palestine.


So you are going to bitch about "muh military govament!" I don't care if they are liberals who support gay rights or not. There is no reason why Arab Muslim states can't be stable if they aren't fucked with. There are Muslim nations that are stable.

The Muslim states that are stable are also solely like that due to money and slave labor.
Egypt also is not stable.
Majority if Islamic countries are no stable

 

[Marduk]

Has Egypt been depopulated and all of it's people moved to Europe? No then the same won't happen to Palestine.

Not if Europe will have anything to say with it. If Europe said yes a big chunk of Egypt would be there.

So you are going to bitch about "muh military govament!" I don't care if they are liberals who support gay rights or not.

What does one thing have to do with another or my by the way?

There is no reason why Arab Muslim states can't be stable if they aren't fucked with.

LMAO, more western interventionism obsession worthy of a leftist professor.
European states are constantly fucked with by half the other European states, plus sometimes USA and China, yet remain stable, that's kinda the idea of being stable, not being the state equivalent of a barely walking granny with osteoporosis who's fine as long as no one pushes her, who gave Arabs a special exemption from international political events and why do they deserve it?

There are Muslim nations that are stable.

Are there? Maybe some of the smaller petrostates. Whoever got rocked by the Arab Spring can't be considered too stable.
Egypt is not one of them for sure considering recent history and the fact that their own government decided that the part of their country neighboring Gaza is such a haven of terrorists that they need an over decade long military intervention there.

 

[IndyFront]

It's been interesting to watch the right and the left almost swap places on the issue of identity politics. I've always been consistently pretty socially conservative when it comes to identity politics, especially when they were trying to shut down any and all criticism of the Obama/Hillary personality cults as racist/sexist. The whole set of ideologies feels scummy to me and echoes of racial politics in one direction or another. Maybe it's because I'm white and I've never felt any sort of affection for racial politics the way certain minorities may be inclined towards it, but then again I'm also not straight and I don't make that my entire identity either. I find LGBTQ people who center their entire identity around this one single aspect of their entire being to be quite obnoxious and more often than not they're useful idiots/pawns of the Democratic party and the socially-liberal neocons. I also don't believe Biden is sincere about his criticism of Antisemitism and Islamophobia, I think he's a bigoted old man who hates minorities as much as any mainstream Republican, if not moreso.

 

[King Arts]

The Muslim states that are stable are also solely like that due to money and slave labor.
Egypt also is not stable.
Majority if Islamic countries are no stable

Indonesia, and Turkey? Those don't have oil money.

Not if Europe will have anything to say with it. If Europe said yes a big chunk of Egypt would be there.

Ok why do you bitch about European nations being stable later but here you are saying they are suicidal.

I'm sorry but if a European nation tries to suicide itself other nations can't save it without conquest. You literally can't stop someone from killing themselves, if they aren't willing to do what needs to be done to save their life.

What does one thing have to do with another or my by the way?

You were the one who brought up how Arab nations are run by the military when that is not relavent, to being a terrorist state or not.

LMAO, more western interventionism obsession worthy of a leftist professor.
European states are constantly fucked with by half the other European states, plus sometimes USA and China, yet remain stable, that's kinda the idea of being stable, not being the state equivalent of a barely walking granny with osteoporosis who's fine as long as no one pushes her, who gave Arabs a special exemption from international political events and why do they deserve it?

There are degrees. One would have to be a blind fool to not think states in the middle east, Africa, and South America and South Asia have not had more intervention in their internal affairs than most European states.

Are there? Maybe some of the smaller petrostates. Whoever got rocked by the Arab Spring can't be considered too stable.
Egypt is not one of them for sure considering recent history and the fact that their own government decided that the part of their country neighboring Gaza is such a haven of terrorists that they need an over decade long military intervention there.

Also we can look and logically deduce that the reason they are fucked up is not because of their religion, or their genetics(they are Arab)

Honestly prove that Islam itself somehow causes poverty, what practice they have that causes failure? We have religious Islamic countries that aren't poor and aren't petro states.

The racist antisemetic argument that Arabs are inferior is another argument. But anyone who looks into it seriously will conclude it's bullshit.

First Arabs and Jews are genetically related they are very close to each other, Jews are closer to them than Europeans. We can see that Jews are able to prosper both as individuals and as a nation in Israel. If you are going to say it's because Arabs marry their cousins, well the same also for many Jews yet the Haredim still produced geniuses.

Obviously it's something else again Jews and Arabs are genetically related so one can't be radically different biologically than the other that kind of thinking is stupid and unscientific.


Oh also we now have the liberal neocons and evangelicals acting like sjw's who want to censor the Bible.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/taylor-greene-antisemitism-bill-rejects-gospel-that-jews-handed-jesus-to-executioners/

 

[Zachowon]

Indonesia, and Turkey? Those don't have oil money.


Ok why do you bitch about European nations being stable later but here you are saying they are suicidal.

I'm sorry but if a European nation tries to suicide itself other nations can't save it without conquest. You literally can't stop someone from killing themselves, if they aren't willing to do what needs to be done to save their life.


You were the one who brought up how Arab nations are run by the military when that is not relavent, to being a terrorist state or not.


There are degrees. One would have to be a blind fool to not think states in the middle east, Africa, and South America and South Asia have not had more intervention in their internal affairs than most European states.


Also we can look and logically deduce that the reason they are fucked up is not because of their religion, or their genetics(they are Arab)

Honestly prove that Islam itself somehow causes poverty, what practice they have that causes failure? We have religious Islamic countries that aren't poor and aren't petro states.

The racist antisemetic argument that Arabs are inferior is another argument. But anyone who looks into it seriously will conclude it's bullshit.

First Arabs and Jews are genetically related they are very close to each other, Jews are closer to them than Europeans. We can see that Jews are able to prosper both as individuals and as a nation in Israel. If you are going to say it's because Arabs marry their cousins, well the same also for many Jews yet the Haredim still produced geniuses.

Obviously it's something else again Jews and Arabs are genetically related so one can't be radically different biologically than the other that kind of thinking is stupid and unscientific.


Oh also we now have the liberal neocons and evangelicals acting like sjw's who want to censor the Bible.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/taylor-greene-antisemitism-bill-rejects-gospel-that-jews-handed-jesus-to-executioners/

Indonesia also doesn't follow sharia law, and is very liberal fir a Muslim country.
Turkey is a mess they just hide it behind being western ish. Plenty have left turkey for Germany

 

[King Arts]

Indonesia also doesn't follow sharia law, and is very liberal fir a Muslim country.
Turkey is a mess they just hide it behind being western ish. Plenty have left turkey for Germany

Does any nation follow "Sharia law" besides Afghanistan, Iran and Saudi Arabia?
I mean I don't think Egypt cuts the hands off theives?

Application of Sharia by country - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And if they did how does that lead to instability? See one thing that annoys me about "conservative" neocons is that they say they support "tough on crime" and then support overloading prisons and doing things that don't help our society yet balk at things that are tough on crime yet at least do help society. After all sending a thief to prison so he learns to be a better/worse criminal won't help society even if he suffers. Yet him losing a hand will make him suffer and make it harder to reoffend.
Hell at this point I prefer the liberals and their Norwegian system than Western "conservative" spinelessness.

Also as for Turkish immigration yes they left because Germany has better economics. Same thing applies to eastern Europe.

 

[Marduk]

I'm sorry but if a European nation tries to suicide itself other nations can't save it without conquest. You literally can't stop someone from killing themselves, if they aren't willing to do what needs to be done to save their life.

The same can be said for allowing the migration from the places it's actually coming from. If they enable it enough, it will happen, conversely, if not, it won't, the other stuff is irrelevant details, the people from all over the ME would come in millions if enabled enough, whatever third worldist pet peeves you blame this on.

You were the one who brought up how Arab nations are run by the military when that is not relavent, to being a terrorist state or not.

On the contrary it's exceptionally relevant, in case of Egypt the military is the only thing stopping it from being effectively a terrorist state.

There are degrees. One would have to be a blind fool to not think states in the middle east, Africa, and South America and South Asia have not had more intervention in their internal affairs than most European states.

I think the stuff Europe had from 1918, 1939 and 1945 and what happened next was some pretty fucking extremely, grotesquely fucking bad cases of interventionism compared to what they had yet they got out of it, but the third world shitholes are going to blame all their failures on a mere shadow of it.

Also we can look and logically deduce that the reason they are fucked up is not because of their religion, or their genetics(they are Arab)

No we cannot.

Honestly prove that Islam itself somehow causes poverty, what practice they have that causes failure? We have religious Islamic countries that aren't poor and aren't petro states.

Name them. For bonus points avoid semi-secular ones like Turkey.

The racist antisemetic argument that Arabs are inferior is another argument. But anyone who looks into it seriously will conclude it's bullshit.

Guess i'm not anyone then, stop larping as a cucked leftist. Only they believe that all societies are exactly equal, there are no better or worse cultures, and except for some evil -isms of choice all would have the exact same standard of living and wealth.

First Arabs and Jews are genetically related they are very close to each other, Jews are closer to them than Europeans. We can see that Jews are able to prosper both as individuals and as a nation in Israel. If you are going to say it's because Arabs marry their cousins, well the same also for many Jews yet the Haredim still produced geniuses.

Then you have twisted yourself into a pretzel.
First you claim Jews are "more similar to Arabs than Europeans", but that only agrees that they are genetically related to both, which means they are in fact different.
Then there is also the controversial inbreeding habit many Arab societies have that Jews don't share, which in one way creates a genetic difference in form of being more inbred.
Also Arabs marry their cousins far more often than Haredim which has extreme impact on the societal effect of it.This downright insultingly dumb argument is like saying that both Haitans and Japanese sometimes commit crimes so Japan should be as crime ridden as Haiti, so do you even know numbers?

Obviously it's something else again Jews and Arabs are genetically related so one can't be radically different biologically than the other that kind of thinking is stupid and unscientific.

Of course there is something else too on top of any biological differences that may or may not be there, Jews have their own culture(s), and Arabs have their own, and they are different in some significant ways, especially when comparing to the Jews who migrated from Europe, who are heavily influenced with its culture, notably known for being good at creating rich and functional countries.

 

[Scottty]

Turks and Indonesians are not only racially and culturally not Arabs, they also have been under Islamic rule for less long, historically. Thus the inherent Arabisation that Islam brings is less far advanced.

 

[Zachowon]

Turks and Indonesians are not only racially and culturally not Arabs, they also have been under Islamic rule for less long, historically. Thus the inherent Arabisation that Islam brings is less far advanced.

Indonesia is very much asiatic culture with Islam.
Not at all like the ME

 

[Marduk]

Indonesia is very much asiatic culture with Islam.
Not at all like the ME

The most hardline islamic part of Indonesia, Aceh, is also its poorest and most dysfunctional part.
As for the rest, Indonesia is a good case of economic effects of what is called... "Jews of Asia", aka very non-Muslim Chinese minority, called that for being quite... disliked by the Muslim majority while being richer than the average.

The Chinese Problem in Indonesia: A Ghost from the Past that Haunts the Present

The Chinese question is nothing new in Indonesia. Two decades after the post-Suharto reforms, Chinese-Indonesians enjoy greater political freedom and no longer face the coercive assimilation and legislative discrimination they endured during Suharto’

www.mironline.ca

Making up roughly three percent of the entire Indonesian population, Chinese Indonesians have been a dominant player in the economy since the Dutch colonial era. Their strong economic performance and difficulties to fully integrated into local communities due to language and cultural practices made them outliers in Indonesian society. Their "Chineseness" carried a negative connotation that portrayed them as disloyal foreigners.

 

[Zachowon]

The Indonesian people don't like the chinese

 

[King Arts]

Turks and Indonesians are not only racially and culturally not Arabs, they also have been under Islamic rule for less long, historically. Thus the inherent Arabisation that Islam brings is less far advanced.

I know Turks and Indonesians are not Arab.
*sigh*
I brought them up to say that Islam as a religion won't make people dumber by taking it(though there are serious problems that Islam will afflict on civilizations that adopt it this isn't the thread for that) For instance if Europeans converted to Islam they wouldn't turn their countries into shitholes.

Then I spoke about Arabs genetically related to Jews so show that those countries aren't fucked up because the people there are genetically inferior. Because Jews and Arabs are close to each other they have similar biological potential. A retard can't produce greatness. Jews have done well for themselves so Arabs should be able to do the same.

That means any fuck up for the Arab nations is something else.

 

[Zachowon]

I know Turks and Indonesians are not Arab.
*sigh*
I brought them up to say that Islam as a religion won't make people dumber by taking it(though there are serious problems that Islam will afflict on civilizations that adopt it this isn't the thread for that) For instance if Europeans converted to Islam they wouldn't turn their countries into shitholes.

Then I spoke about Arabs genetically related to Jews so show that those countries aren't fucked up because the people there are genetically inferior. Because Jews and Arabs are close to each other they have similar biological potential. A retard can't produce greatness. Jews have done well for themselves so Arabs should be able to do the same.

That means any fuck up for the Arab nations is something else.

They are similar but that does not mean the same as they are the same.
Chinese, Japanese and Koreans are genetically related.
So are Mongolians.
Do you think Mongolians are considered one of the smartest countries?
Hell, China fakes most of its stuff.

Every country that has taken Islam to the level of every ME country outside kf Petro dollar ones, has become shit.
There is an island in Indonesia that has Sharia law and everything and are a bunch of terrorists and poor.
The rest of the country avoids them.

 

[Marduk]

I know Turks and Indonesians are not Arab.
*sigh*
I brought them up to say that Islam as a religion won't make people dumber by taking it(though there are serious problems that Islam will afflict on civilizations that adopt it this isn't the thread for that) For instance if Europeans converted to Islam they wouldn't turn their countries into shitholes.

Depends on what Islam, and depends how much they would accept Arab cultural influence that is inherently tied to Islam.
If they basically became the kind of Muslims Polish or Ukrainian Tatars are (though that means highly secularized), not much effect, to large degree because the differences between a secularized Muslim European and a secularized Catholic European are far smaller than between a fundamentalist Muslim from anywhere and a secularized Catholic European.
If it was the same as hardline Pakistani or Iraqi Islamists are and also started living like them, yes, their countries would become shitholes.

Then I spoke about Arabs genetically related to Jews so show that those countries aren't fucked up because the people there are genetically inferior. Because Jews and Arabs are close to each other they have similar biological potential.

So long story short, you think there are no differences between Jews, Arabs, Europeans or any other people besides genetics and religion? Culture, customs, other social characteristics that may have major effects on economy, nothing like that matters much?

A retard can't produce greatness. Jews have done well for themselves so Arabs should be able to do the same.

That means any fuck up for the Arab nations is something else.

*Which* Jews also applies. Don't you know of how much of the major Jewish achievements track well with some particular subsections of Jews and not others? Specifically the ones who lived in Europe and were somewhat assimilated to it?

 

[King Arts]

They are similar but that does not mean the same as they are the same.
Chinese, Japanese and Koreans are genetically related.
So are Mongolians.
Do you think Mongolians are considered one of the smartest countries?
Hell, China fakes most of its stuff.

Every country that has taken Islam to the level of every ME country outside kf Petro dollar ones, has become shit.
There is an island in Indonesia that has Sharia law and everything and are a bunch of terrorists and poor.
The rest of the country avoids them.

Yes the Mongolians are genetically related to Chinese, Japanese and Koreans. That means they will have a similar potential. If they don't meet that potential then it's for some other reason.
Look you can say some groups are incapable of things because of their genes.
So someone comparing a Zulu or an Arab to a Japanese is a bad comparison. But you could compare a Japanese, and a Korean, and a Chinese to one another. And sure maybe one of them is predisposed to have a higher IQ. But it won't be a whole order higher, only a bit.

Thus Arabs are close to Jews they have a similar potential and should logically be able to do the same things to a similar level. If they fail to get close that means it's something else at fault not their biology maybe culture, maybe religion, maybe outside influence and sabotage, maybe bad luck. But it's not biology.

 

[Jormungandr]

The Indonesian people don't like the chinese

To be fair, not many people like the Mainland Chinese.

People like the Taiwanese. People like Hong Kongers (the actual Hong Kongers, not those people brought over by the CCP from the mainland to basically displace and repopulate Hong Kong). People think Mainland Chinese, especially Han, are corrupt, greedy, rude, arrogant, and generally untrustworthy people.

Edit: Oh, and unhygienic, given they shit in the street and cook with literal sewage.

And given what's come out of China, from top to bottom from CCP officials to people working on the street, they're not wrong.

 

[ATP]

Yes the Mongolians are genetically related to Chinese, Japanese and Koreans. That means they will have a similar potential. If they don't meet that potential then it's for some other reason.
Look you can say some groups are incapable of things because of their genes.
So someone comparing a Zulu or an Arab to a Japanese is a bad comparison. But you could compare a Japanese, and a Korean, and a Chinese to one another. And sure maybe one of them is predisposed to have a higher IQ. But it won't be a whole order higher, only a bit.

Thus Arabs are close to Jews they have a similar potential and should logically be able to do the same things to a similar level. If they fail to get close that means it's something else at fault not their biology maybe culture, maybe religion, maybe outside influence and sabotage, maybe bad luck. But it's not biology.

It is roman influence on jews.To be precise,jews were once like muslims now - holy war and all that shit.Then,they started their uprisings - and romans 3 times bathed them in their blood.literally.
So,they created Talmud who teach them how to live and prosper without holy war,and they eventually become one or richest group in world.

When muslims still try old jewish method.Those old jews were probably not very smart,too.

 

[King Arts]

Depends on what Islam, and depends how much they would accept Arab cultural influence that is inherently tied to Islam.
If they basically became the kind of Muslims Polish or Ukrainian Tatars are (though that means highly secularized), not much effect, to large degree because the differences between a secularized Muslim European and a secularized Catholic European are far smaller than between a fundamentalist Muslim from anywhere and a secularized Catholic European.
If it was the same as hardline Pakistani or Iraqi Islamists are and also started living like them, yes, their countries would become shitholes.

What type of Islam? Doesen't this argument apply to every religion then Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, etc.

Most Muslim nations are not ruled by clerics the rulers and the people do make laws based on the morals of society which is influenced by religion.

So long story short, you think there are no differences between Jews, Arabs, Europeans or any other people besides genetics and religion? Culture, customs, other social characteristics that may have major effects on economy, nothing like that matters much?

Religion is a part of culture. Also you did not bring up culture it sounded like you were harping on the genetics bandwagon.

*Which* Jews also applies. Don't you know of how much of the major Jewish achievements track well with some particular subsections of Jews and not others? Specifically the ones who lived in Europe and were somewhat assimilated to it?

All jews are related, weren't there DNA tests that showed Israelis have the DNA markers of Ancient Jews? That makes them different from Ancient Europeans. Unless you are saying the modern Jews are "fake Jews" and just converts and not actually tribally descendent from Ancient Israel to a large degree.

It is roman influence on jews.To be precise,jews were once like muslims now - holy war and all that shit.Then,they started their uprisings - and romans 3 times bathed them in their blood.literally.
So,they created Talmud who teach them how to live and prosper without holy war,and they eventually become one or richest group in world.

When muslims still try old jewish method.Those old jews were probably not very smart,too.

This is true, and is a logical statment. It makes sense that the thing that is causing success is that Jews adopted western culture.

 

[Marduk]

What type of Islam? Doesen't this argument apply to every religion then Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, etc.

Most Muslim nations are not ruled by clerics the rulers and the people do make laws based on the morals of society which is influenced by religion.

On the contrary most are ruled by clerics to some degree or another.
The clerics are the ones who get a say about laws, and their say is based on Islam not on polling the society, even if the society is Muslim.

Only the green ones work the way you think, as in the same way as European secular countries where clerics can advise people nicely how to vote but its purely optional if they want to follow what clerics said or not when in the voting booth or when in parliament writing laws. In the other ones, clerics have an official role in deciding the laws. While there's a bunch of secular-ish Muslim countries, as you can see most of those are in subsaharan Africa and Central Asia, while ME ones are very much not secular.

Religion is a part of culture. Also you did not bring up culture it sounded like you were harping on the genetics bandwagon.

Religion is one part of culture, how big depending on specific culture, and no, it did not sound like that, look at the end of that post.

All jews are related, weren't there DNA tests that showed Israelis have the DNA markers of Ancient Jews? That makes them different from Ancient Europeans. Unless you are saying the modern Jews are "fake Jews" and just converts and not actually tribally descendent from Ancient Israel to a large degree.

Of course they are also different from Ancient Europeans, that however in no way makes it impossible for them to have interbred somewhat with Europeans, and even less so to be influenced by the cultures they lived around for nearly 2 millennia.