United States As NYC allows foreigners to vote in local elections Ohio lawmakers advance constitutional amendment to ban noncitizens from voting

[WolfBear]

Atomist nonsense, but it's reason.com so I'm not surprised. That site is basically a gaggle of moral relativists; the equivalent of ivory-tower champagne socialists, but on a side of the spectrum that happens to dislike economic redistribution.

Again, simple logic demonstrates how hypocritical these ivory tower "conference libertarians" tend to be. By the logic of this Somin person, the family is also an "arbitrary" distinction. All communities are "arbitrary", then, so we should... what, dilute them endlessly?

The "argument" here is literally the same as "[x] is a social construct"! That's how openly lefist radicals phrase this particular form of madness. The crypto-leftist radicals like Somin avoid that phrase, but arrive at the same insane conclusion.

Yes, one could view the current child support laws as likewise being a form of hereditary privilege. After all, they give some children a much better quality of life relative to other children simply based on who these children's biological parents are--and also based on how exactly these children were conceived (through intercourse, through medical/clinical artificial insemination, or through at-home artificial insemination). When a parent voluntarily consents to these obligations, then this can be viewed as a gift from a parent to a child, but when a parent is forced to assume these obligations, then this would likewise be a case of governmental/state coercion in order to maintain a system of hereditary privilege.

Certainly. But even then, it is unwise to just open the borders without reservation. In a highly libertarian society, I suppose you could tie it to personal responsibility. Invite someone in, and they become your "charge". That is: any newcomer can enter by being "sponsored" by a private citizen... who then becomes responsible for the migrant's good behaviour. The sponsor not only has to pay for the migrant, but is also considered jointly accountable for any crime the migrant may commit. So, for instance, if the migrant rapes a women... both the migrant and his sponsor are executed.

That ought to encourage a bit of careful deliberation!

Libertarians would also say that such a policy should apply to births for the sake of logical consistency! But of course the problem is that a population can't continue without either births or replacement--and the former is much more vital for population continuation than the latter is. I don't know of any societies that have zero birth rates and total population replacement through immigration, after all.

 

[Skallagrim]

Libertarians would also say that such a policy should apply to births for the sake of logical consistency!

In mot countries, that policy does apply to birth, at least to some extent. Parents or legal guardians are responsible for the acts of minors. For instance: if your ten-year-old kid takes a hammer to the neighbour's car, you have to pay for the damages, even if you didn't actually have anything to do with damaging the car. Because it's your kid that did it.

 

[GoldRanger]

What is even the logic of allowing people who don't even live there to dictate the lives of those who do? What the fuck?

 

[Zyobot]

In mot countries, that policy does apply to birth, at least to some extent. Parents or legal guardians are responsible for the acts of minors. For instance: if your ten-year-old kid takes a hammer to the neighbour's car, you have to pay for the damages, even if you didn't actually have anything to do with damaging the car. Because it's your kid that did it.

Yes, but is it really necessary to execute the parents, because their kid was a school shooter? That’s the logic you apply to the sponsors of migrants who become rapists, though I suppose in that case, the sponsor should still be investigated and face legal repercussions for any potential carelessness in vetting their charge.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

What is even the logic of allowing people who don't even live there to dictate the lives of those who do? What the fuck?

I don't know, ask a lot of the European conservatives on the sietch. they just love to backseat politic

 

[WolfBear]

What is even the logic of allowing people who don't even live there to dictate the lives of those who do? What the fuck?

FWIW, I myself was born in Israel and am still an Israeli citizen. So, I do have a right to comment on Israeli affairs, albeit not to vote in Israel since I no longer actually live in Israel.

But Yeah, the end effect of any immigration would either be to alter the voting pool of the country (since longtime natives' votes will count for less, perhaps even significantly so) or to create a hereditary caste system (if you will deny voting rights to immigrants and their descendants for an indefinite number of generations). This does indicate caution about whom exactly one should accept. One wouldn't want a country's politics shifting in an undesirable direction, after all. Though a country's politics could also shift in an undesirable direction as a result of domestic factors such as speech and fertility.

 

[WolfBear]

Yes, but is it really necessary to execute the parents, because their kid was a school shooter? That’s the logic you apply to the sponsors of migrants who become rapists, though I suppose in that case, the sponsor should still be investigated and face legal repercussions for any potential carelessness in vetting their charge.

By that logic, should all parents be compelled or at least strongly encouraged to reproduce through IVF and to weed out all of the undesirable embryos in order to reduce the risk of their future children ending up as school shooters?

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

By that logic, should all parents be compelled or at least strongly encouraged to reproduce through IVF and to weed out all of the undesirable embryos in order to reduce the risk of their future children ending up as school shooters?

@Zyobot yeah as I've been warning people on the board. This can easily lead into the abyss of madness if we think too hard or much about it.

 

[WolfBear]

@Zyobot yeah as I've been warning people on the board. This can easily lead into the abyss of madness if we think too hard or much about it.

This isn't illogical. Whether or not one ends up as a school shooter probably depends in part on one's genes, after all.

 

[Cherico]

This isn't illogical. Whether or not one ends up as a school shooter probably depends in part on one's genes, after all.

I think having an intact family unit helps a lot.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

This isn't illogical. Whether or not one ends up as a school shooter probably depends in part on one's genes, after all.

Being illogical is not the only form of madness son.

 

[WolfBear]

I think having an intact family unit helps a lot.

Perhaps. Though whether or not one's parents will remain together will also in part depend on their genes, no doubt.

 

[posh-goofiness]

This isn't illogical. Whether or not one ends up as a school shooter probably depends in part on one's genes, after all.

False. The single best predictor for criminality is single parent homes.

 

[WolfBear]

False. The single best predictor for criminality is single parent homes.

As I wrote above:

Though whether or not one's parents will remain together will also in part depend on their genes, no doubt.

 

[Scottty]

Late to the debate here, but...

Not every country in the world is a mono-ethnic nation-state populated by people whose ancestors have lived there for centuries. And even those places were once something different.

While I think it should be possible for an immigrant to become a citizen, I think we can all agree that naturalization should be something that has to be earned and qualified for, not handed out like candy to any third-world chancer who's just looking for a place where he can live out his life on welfare, along with his four wives and twenty children, etc.

A particular maybe-hot take of mine: the more broadly they extended the right to vote, the one's vote matters. Universal Sufferage is meaningless when all the real decisions aren't even made by the people who are being elected.

 

[WolfBear]

Late to the debate here, but...

Not every country in the world is a mono-ethnic nation-state populated by people whose ancestors have lived there for centuries. And even those places were once something different.

While I think it should be possible for an immigrant to become a citizen, I think we can all agree that naturalization should be something that has to be earned and qualified for, not handed out like candy to any third-world chancer who's just looking for a place where he can live out his life on welfare, along with his four wives and twenty children, etc.

A particular maybe-hot take of mine: the more broadly they extended the right to vote, the one's vote matters. Universal Sufferage is meaningless when all the real decisions aren't even made by the people who are being elected.

Do you believe that there should be something comparable to the US citizenship exam before one is actually allowed to vote? I mean for natives as well.

 

[Scottty]

Do you believe that there should be something comparable to the US citizenship exam before one is actually allowed to vote? I mean for natives as well.

Hmm. Basically a test as to whether the person in question actually understands how the government works, perhaps?
But you can be sure the Democrats would be screaming about racism at any attempt to move to a qualified franchise.

 

[WolfBear]

Hmm. Basically a test as to whether the person in question actually understands how the government works, perhaps?
But you can be sure the Democrats would be screaming about racism at any attempt to move to a qualified franchise.

Of course, because Democrats are unfortunately obsessed with disparate impact.

 

[Bacle]

Do you believe that there should be something comparable to the US citizenship exam before one is actually allowed to vote? I mean for natives as well.

Ah, here we go with you pushing facistic crap again.

When it isn't eugenics, it's trying to find ways to limit the franchise of natural-born citizens or similar bullshit.

No one here cares what fringe loons on VDare or similar WN/WS gathering places say, and you should stop importing thier debates/ideas to this forum.

 

[LordsFire]

Ah, here we go with you pushing facistic crap again.

When it isn't eugenics, it's trying to find ways to limit the franchise of natural-born citizens or similar bullshit.

No one here cares what fringe loons on VDare or similar WN/WS gathering places say, and you should stop importing thier debates/ideas to this forum.

If he actually debated the ideas he might be accomplishing something constructive. But as it is, he's ignored people pointing out the holes in the eugenicist positions, and just keeps repeating the same crap again and again.