Could Earth then rapidly uptech if say, Earth got a Memory core similar to Helm? Maybe not reproduce the tech exactly, but something better?
Battletech Story Brainstorming
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Skitzyfrenic
Well-known member
None of that actually makes it an autocannon. And stuffing a gunnery crew into a battlemech isn't really an option. We definitely have better AFVs in almost every case.
I made no suggestion as to the weight of modern autoloaders. I was saying that we had that much weight to play around with. But it is good to know that an autoloader for a modern tank is only a half long ton.
I don't think I ever made any assumption or assertion on the capabilities of the loading system of either techbase. And I already acknowledged our vastly superior missile technology several times across several posts.
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I feel like you're mashing several posts together from multiple people either all thinking they're the same person and then singling one person out, or you're reading way way way way way way too much into a statement. It makes it look like, imo, like you've got trash reading comprehension.
We'd likely have trouble accessing the thing, unless it's a Tacitus Situation where we struggle to decode/interface and gets slithers of data for a lot of effort.
I don't mean the Helm core specifically but rather a memory core that has the information easily accessible and available.
Maybe? It depends if it was properly indexed and didn't require absurd amounts of processing power to trawl through for information.
The problem would be building out infrastructure to build the new tech, which is where our legal hurdles come in. (Also, getting stuff like ECAM up to the exact scale required.)
It's superior to an autocannon, and there's no need to stuff a gunnery crew into a Battlemech if we're shifting the scenario to "RL as a faction in BattleTech". Tanks are absolutely superior to Battlemechs anywhere outside of BTech game rules anyway.
You said there's up to seven tons left to add an autoloader to 'match' the BTech capability; I'm providing an RL example in order to clarify how much weight would actually need to be added. It's a clarifying point, not saying you're wrong.
In that case quite easily, since science and engineering are not themselves "LosTech" in RL.
(Really, the most important loss in all Battletech was the destruction of apparently almost every institute of higher learning everywhere in the Inner Sphere. The biggest factor in keeping Battletech neo-feudal is the fact that, apparently, there's only two or three institutes of higher learning in each of the vast multi-system polities. Hence Hanse Davion founding *one* new university was considered an unbelievably big deal and a strategic game-changer of vast implications.)
Easily accessible and available? Even if companies and governments kept a lot of the reverse-engineered advancements 'under wraps'/gate kept, our technology would still leapfrog practically overnight in civilizational terms.
Hell, NASA or Space X coming out with a "next generation shuttle" that'd allow us to visit Luna, Mars, or the Asteroid Belt in a short time-frame would catapult us like a hundred years ahead in that area alone.
If by some miracle all governments worked together and everything was dispensed down without gatekeeping? (Unrealistic, yeah).
We'd be catapulted centuries ahead in all areas, including societally because of a ripple effect (just look at what soc-med and smartphones have done in just under twenty years, as a small example).
So I started thinking.
Lets say a group, say an Inner Sphere House like Kurita is intent on hitting Earth and is deploying the Sword of light or another group of similar caliber. And their target is an American City like say...Los Angeles or something like that.
In BattleTech, at least to my knowledge. Most don't hit drop ships as they're deploying. But our Military would absolutely never let those forces hit the ground. You'd have F-15s firing those Anti-Satellite missiles into drop ships. You'd have Cruise Missiles and Anti-Air batteries engaging the moment they came into range. Not to mention the ridiculous number of fighters hitting them and their ASFs as they came down to land. Then, assuming any force survives that...now they're getting hit my HIMARS/MLRS, Tomahawk cruise missiles and Artillery. Even as the Military is vectoring in forces to directly engage.
Lets say a group, say an Inner Sphere House like Kurita is intent on hitting Earth and is deploying the Sword of light or another group of similar caliber. And their target is an American City like say...Los Angeles or something like that.
In BattleTech, at least to my knowledge. Most don't hit drop ships as they're deploying. But our Military would absolutely never let those forces hit the ground. You'd have F-15s firing those Anti-Satellite missiles into drop ships. You'd have Cruise Missiles and Anti-Air batteries engaging the moment they came into range. Not to mention the ridiculous number of fighters hitting them and their ASFs as they came down to land. Then, assuming any force survives that...now they're getting hit my HIMARS/MLRS, Tomahawk cruise missiles and Artillery. Even as the Military is vectoring in forces to directly engage.
IIRC, Battletech's factions seem to have this weird "unspoken rule" that dropships aren't to be targeted for any reason because of how valuable/irreplaceable they are. Stolen if possible, destroyed as a very last resort.
We... don't have that compunction. I mean yeah, we'd want one to reverse-engineer or use, but if it's a threat we'd blow the shit out of it the moment it arrived if possible.
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Doomsought
Well-known member
No, that is jump ships. The reason most factions don't shoot down dropships is because they weigh tens of thousands of tons and a dropship's crash is as much the ground's problem as it is the drop-ships. Once the dropship is landed, they can end up threatened by artillery, but that also ends up cutting off the line of retreat for the enemy, which may make them fight harder out of spite.
Ah, I got the two confused.
Well, one of the important things in any BTech invasion of RL Earth would be that the use of mercenaries is a violation of our longstanding rules of law. This means that any mercenaries we capture would not have prisoner of war status. They would be war criminals, which basically makes them up for grabs to be aggressively interrogated by intelligence agencies and then permanently imprisoned or even summarily executed if they fail to make themselves useful.
(Few countries are going to summarily execute more than a handful of them, the point I'm making is that the Geneva Conventions explicitly allow this.)
(Few countries are going to summarily execute more than a handful of them, the point I'm making is that the Geneva Conventions explicitly allow this.)
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So yeah, I think the big difference is mindset.
Earth doesn't know BattleMechs and doesn't use them. And even if they do get them, Groups like NATO and the US likely wouldn't use them. Where as I think Russia and or China might, if they can salvage any good ones.
I could wonder what something like this would do with Tanks or Battlemechs.
www.defence-industries.com
Then there are the new lightweight materials derived from Nanotech. Stronger than Kevlar and Steel and weighing significantly less.
www.army.mil
Then of course the Abrams X with its next generation gun and systems.
Earth doesn't know BattleMechs and doesn't use them. And even if they do get them, Groups like NATO and the US likely wouldn't use them. Where as I think Russia and or China might, if they can salvage any good ones.
I could wonder what something like this would do with Tanks or Battlemechs.
Electromagnetic Armor | Countermeasures, Electronic Warfare and Decoys | BAE Systems
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www.defence-industries.com
Then there are the new lightweight materials derived from Nanotech. Stronger than Kevlar and Steel and weighing significantly less.
New material could mean lightweight armor, protective coatings
RESEARCH TRIANGLE PARK, N.C. -- Army-funded research identified a new material that may lead to lightweight armor, protective coatings, blast shields an...
www.army.mil
Then of course the Abrams X with its next generation gun and systems.
So yeah, I think the big difference is mindset.
Earth doesn't know BattleMechs and doesn't use them. And even if they do get them, Groups like NATO and the US likely wouldn't use them. Where as I think Russia and or China might, if they can salvage any good ones.
I could wonder what something like this would do with Tanks or Battlemechs.
Electromagnetic Armor | Countermeasures, Electronic Warfare and Decoys | BAE Systems
Find out all of the information about the Electromagnetic Armor Contact a supplier or the parent company directly to get a quote.
Then there are the new lightweight materials derived from Nanotech. Stronger than Kevlar and Steel and weighing significantly less.
New material could mean lightweight armor, protective coatings
RESEARCH TRIANGLE PARK, N.C. -- Army-funded research identified a new material that may lead to lightweight armor, protective coatings, blast shields an...
Then of course the Abrams X with its next generation gun and systems.
The Abrams X looks like something the US would use in a Command and Conquer: Generals remake or sequel; looks lit.
In any case, "Tanks vs Battlemechs" doesn't even take center stage in even the modified scenario because Battlemechs have literally no defense for MLRS "grid square remover" barrages and time-on-target stonks from tube artillery. Their AMS systems are literally not allowed to target these and cannot be reprogrammed to do so.
...Wait, what? What stupidity is this?
Combination of plot mechanics and game mechanics. Battletech AMS *only* engages missiles, and *explicitly* does not engage ballistic shells. This is explicitly canon even in "fluff only", as the fluff declares that it is the entire reason Battlemech-mounted mortars make a partial resurgence in use after AMS begins to become common again instead of being "lostech".
Also, only the super rare, advanced RISC type AMS which was developed exclusively by one faction way down timeline from the 'main' era of Battletech, has any form of 'area protect' mode, and this requires special hardware that is much heavier than a standard AMS. In contrast, real-life Phalanx system can provide area protection over a 1.3 square kilometer zone with a simple software patch, and is deployed in this purpose as the land-based Centurion.
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. . . Do you know how much armor a typical dropship has?
Firstly, Dropship armor is rated in aerotech scale, so when you look at Sarna and see these small numbers listed you need to multiply them by TEN to get their equivalent armor values for normal BattleTech...
A Union, for instance, has 18 AeroTech / 180 BattleTech grade Armor per SIDE, and their captains know how to rotate the ship while descending to minimize the fire taken on one side. And the Union is a dedicated Mech Carrier. When they go into an area they expect to take fire as they land from they send in Assault Carrier class Dropships like the Fortress which has EVEN MORE ARMOR.
Anti-satellite missiles have very little, IF ANY explosive payload. Satellites are NOT hardened targets, and a missile simply HITTING them is generally enough to destroy one or knock it out of orbit. To be frank, I'd argue those missiles likely do nothing to most dropships, or at MOST 1 point of damage. Cruise missiles and anti-air batteries are things dropships are designed to handle as those have been used as defenses in BattleTech for generations.
Also, BattleTech Aerospace fighters will generally give them air superiority over our modern airframes. Not because of better performance, some have better performance, some have lesser, but due to a few reasons:
1. Being able to out climb anything we have.
Remember, altitude advantage is a thing in aerial combat, and all our fighters have a flight ceiling where they can no longer perform. Aerospace fighters functionally have no such ceiling, as they are EXPLICITLY designed for both space and atmospheric use.
2. Being flying tanks.
The second utterly massive advantage BattleTech Aerospace fighters have is just how much damage they can soak. Remember, these craft use the same weapons and armors as BattleMechs, and while people here seem utterly sold on underselling BattleTech weaponry's ranges, nobody has argued that their weapon POWER is underplayed... and this applies horrifically to the matchup of Earth airframes vs aerospace fighters. Missile shots that would KILL a normal airframe will just SCRATCH an aerospace fighter. An Aerospace fighter could like COLLIDE with an F-22 and keep flying while an F-22 will be so much scrap.
3. They have lightspeed weapons.
Weapons grade lasers and PPCs meant to shoot at BattleMech scaled armored enemies are going to be UTTERLY DEVISTATING to have to engage in a dogfight with. There's no dodging them, no chaff deploying, the only chance is not to let them lock on, as even a marginal hit by a Large Laser WILL destroy any modern aircraft... with the POSSIBLE exception of a Warhog.
And before people go around claiming BattleTech weapons have short ranges and are thus useless against modern aircraft, upon mounting on an Aerospace fighter, the range for weapons change from 1 hex = 30 meters, to 1 hex = ~600 meters, thus a large laser has a range of 9 km... or if using the ACTUAL rules that state that all BattleTech ranges ARE explicitly truncated for gameplay purposes and that the ACTUAL weapons would be "to the horizon"... those lasers would be to the horizon and thus things would literally be at "lookshoot" situations.
Oh... and by the way, THIS APPLIES TO THOSE DROPSHIPS TOO. Those dropships are actually COVERED IN GUNS, including many, MANY lasers that potentially are "to the horizon" as well which makes many of the defenses firing at the Dropship as it comes it potential targets for it's own counter-fire... as well as any aircraft attempting to attack it.
Finally, on cruise missiles and larger, I need to double check the rules, but I'm fairly certain in the aerospace rules there's rules for using smaller direct fire weapons as anti-large missile weapons. If that's the case, the Dropships have even more options against attackers as they come in...
Aaron Fox
Well-known member
Any small laser, MG, or anti-personnel gauss can be used as PD weapons, as long as heat and ammo considerations allow.
Note that the MG (and later small lasers) in this configuration is what led to the AMS system.
In addition to this, on any spaceframe, you can use standard weapons (basically anything that isn't an MG, Small Laser, or AP Gauss) as anti-capital missile weapons... but only out to 3-hexes and cut their damage by half (and a to-hit penalty if I remember right).
So gang batteries of standard weapons can be used as hillbilly AMS against capital missiles if needed.
In addition, 'misses' in the game context are "didn't hit the armor the right way", "missiles failed to detonate on-target", or 'got deflected' in addition to literal misses... and the rules specifically have our equipment completely and utterly screwed (BAR-10 armor has a -3 damage penalty to 'rifle cannon' (i.e., our tank guns) while our BAR-5 armor gets penned by medium lasers (or small lasers, don't have the rules on me)).