Religion Being Winsome and Nice Won’t Cut It Anymore, Christian

[DarthOne]

Sitting there and taking it isn't what you're supposed to do either. You can control yourself and your actions. @KilroywasNOTHere

Ultimately, if you are faced with the question of your life or your faith, the latter is what you should choose. However, there's a wide gap between that and our current state.

The whole point of the email was a call to action. So, start acting. Leave the areas where this shit is entrenched. Show up to your children's school. Volunteer at your church. Build your local community. There's a lot of stuff we can still do.

The one problem I have with this is that, at least from my knowledge, we’ve been trying to do the ‘leave the area where this stuff is happening’ for years now. And it doesn’t seem to have done much good. We just seem to be falling back into a smaller and smaller corner.

 

[posh-goofiness]

The one problem I have with this is that, at least from my knowledge, we’ve been trying to do the ‘leave the area where this stuff is happening’ for years now. And it doesn’t seem to have done much good. We just seem to be falling back into a smaller and smaller corner.

Alright. So fight back. It's very simple. We're all squirming away from saying what needs to be said and doing what needs to be done. When push comes to shove and they come for your children, you have two options.

So. Fight? Or flight. There is no in between. We will not be given the luxury of other options.

For myself I choose flight, for now. As you said, the space to run is running out and I do recognize this. I still think slight retreat combined with community building is a viable way forward. Again, for now.

 

[LordsFire]

I'd recommend that Christians probably start also doing more interfaith events; lots of other religions out there have the same target on their back when it comes to trannies, and may be able to give a heads up if something fucky might be about to happen.

Christians have hosted and been involved with interfaith events in America for over a hundred years.

If Christians do not seek allies and friends outside their own faith, they will find it much harder to fight the madness of progressives.

In fact, not even trying more interfaith events and cooperation in the face of progressives is part of why the religious right (aka mostly the Christian Right) keep making enemies of other faiths who live in the US, enemies who could be allies if Christians in the US stopped viewing other religions as illegit or evil.

Because Muslims, Jews, Hindi's, Sikhs, Buddists, and other non-progressive faiths are going to all be targets for this sort of madness, and not having interfaith relationships/partnerships is going to hurt both community building and their own security going forward.

America is not a 'Christian nation', we are a multi-faith nation, and thinking Christians are the only targets of this madness is just dumb.

America isn't a Christian nation, but it was, and losing that is why the culture is imploding around us. Further, the hardline secularists in America will not target and aggress against other religions the way they will against Christians, for a number of reasons.

First, Christianity is a very real threat to their power. The Christian heritage is still present, if much weakened, and Christians still comprise the largest single religious wing of the nation. This means that they wish to pursue us to absolute destruction.

Second, Christians are a safer target. Christians are taught to love their enemies, which is not something that Muslims, Jews, Hindus, or Sikhs are taught. Some forms of Buddhism teach it, but such buddhists are extremely rare in America. All of this means that the atheists and perverts can attack Christians all they want, and know that even if we do rouse ourselves fully to conflict and then win, we won't be leading extermination campaigns against them afterwards.



Further, you continue to show you lack basic understanding of what it means to take a religious belief seriously. Being a Christian is not compatible with thinking that Islam, or Hinduism, or Atheism, or any other worldview is 'legitimate.' In the same way, those worldviews are not compatible with thinking that Christianity is 'legitimate.' To try to pretend otherwise is to disrespect both the belief system, and those who follow it. It's to not take what they profess seriously, to act like it's just a game of make-believe.

I've had incredibly engaging, respectful conversations about ideology and worldviews with Hindus, Buddhists, even on rare occassion Atheists. Accepting that we disagree about fundamental things was essential to being able to do that. It is a sign of concern for the other person that you care about them enough to try to convince them of what you believe is true, and respect that you think their capacity for reason matters enough to hear the reasons they give for what they believe instead.

 

[Bacle]

Christians have hosted and been involved with interfaith events in America for over a hundred years.



America isn't a Christian nation, but it was, and losing that is why the culture is imploding around us. Further, the hardline secularists in America will not target and aggress against other religions the way they will against Christians, for a number of reasons.

First, Christianity is a very real threat to their power. The Christian heritage is still present, if much weakened, and Christians still comprise the largest single religious wing of the nation. This means that they wish to pursue us to absolute destruction.

Second, Christians are a safer target. Christians are taught to love their enemies, which is not something that Muslims, Jews, Hindus, or Sikhs are taught. Some forms of Buddhism teach it, but such buddhists are extremely rare in America. All of this means that the atheists and perverts can attack Christians all they want, and know that even if we do rouse ourselves fully to conflict and then win, we won't be leading extermination campaigns against them afterwards.



Further, you continue to show you lack basic understanding of what it means to take a religious belief seriously. Being a Christian is not compatible with thinking that Islam, or Hinduism, or Atheism, or any other worldview is 'legitimate.' In the same way, those worldviews are not compatible with thinking that Christianity is 'legitimate.' To try to pretend otherwise is to disrespect both the belief system, and those who follow it. It's to not take what they profess seriously, to act like it's just a game of make-believe.

I've had incredibly engaging, respectful conversations about ideology and worldviews with Hindus, Buddhists, even on rare occassion Atheists. Accepting that we disagree about fundamental things was essential to being able to do that. It is a sign of concern for the other person that you care about them enough to try to convince them of what you believe is true, and respect that you think their capacity for reason matters enough to hear the reasons they give for what they believe instead.

See, I'm a deist because I do believe there is something divine out there, something greater than this, but I do not think I know the full nature of it, or that is a single path.

The Christian Bible is rather good as a semi-historical ext, and the Old Testament...well, it's a fanciful, long telephone game retelling of several cometary/meteor impact events that did serious damage to multiple parts of the globe.

Burkle Crater for example may be the Great Flood.

Burckle Crater - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Might have wiped out 80% of the humans alive at the time, is about 4800 yo, and coincides pretty well with a general great flood myth throughout much of the ancient world, and has massive mega-tsunami deposits to back it up in Madagascar, Australia, New Zealand, and the wave was at minimum 600 ft high, probably closer to 1000 ft, and the 'rain-out' from the vaporized water would account for the extended flooding event.

Works much better than the opening of the Black Sea, and has wipe spread evidence based support and fits the archeological time line.

However, using the Bible as a predictive tool, which is what Revelations is, runs into the same sort of problems as Nostradomis and other 'seers'. It's just not smart, and acting like any sign is of the 'End Times' is farcical. It's also why some see certain sects of Christianity as a doomsday cult.

 

[LordsFire]

See, I'm a deist because I do believe there is something divine out there, something greater than this, but I do not think I know the full nature of it, or that is a single path.

The Christian Bible is rather good as a semi-historical ext, and the Old Testament...well, it's a fanciful, long telephone game retelling of several cometary/meteor impact events that did serious damage to multiple parts of the globe.

Burkle Crater for example may be the Great Flood.

Burckle Crater - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Might have wiped out 80% of the humans alive at the time, is about 4800 yo, and coincides pretty well with a general great flood myth throughout much of the ancient world, and has massive mega-tsunami deposits to back it up in Madagascar, Australia, New Zealand, and the wave was at minimum 600 ft high, probably closer to 1000 ft, and the 'rain-out' from the vaporized water would account for the extended flooding event.

Works much better than the opening of the Black Sea, and has wipe spread evidence based support and fits the archeological time line.

However, using the Bible as a predictive tool, which is what Revelations is, runs into the same sort of problems as Nostradomis and other 'seers'. It's just not smart, and acting like any sign is of the 'End Times' is farcical. It's also why some see certain sects of Christianity as a doomsday cult.

...What does any of this have to do with what I posted?

 

[posh-goofiness]

If that's the case the man is preaching to the choir I've been saying this for Literal years now only for it to fall on deaf ears. Why are people only now saying this stuff NOW???

Because it's only now that the masses have noticed the existential threat they've allowed to grow around them. It's always been this way.

 

[Bacle]

...What does any of this have to do with what I posted?

You said I lack understanding of what it is to take religious dogma 'seriously', and seemed to have acted like you thought I was just some atheist when I said what I did.

I was showing why I do not take any creed or dogma as the 'truth' or 'only path', despite believing in the divine, and thus taking Revelations seriously seems very dumb to me for multiple reasons, some ideological, some based on a more...detached view of the Bible as a semi-historical text of events, rather than a guidebook for living.

The more we look at the Bible from an outsider perspective, and the more we can correlate events in the bible with stuff we actually can find evidence for in places that were far removed from the Levant, the more a lot of Biblical stories read like fanciful, ignorant retelling of natural disasters, including at least 2 meteor strikes that had wide ranging effects on the populations at the time (Soddam and Gamorrah/Biblical Great Flood).

See, I do take religion seriously as a pseudo-historical timeline to correlate with observable natural evidence, but any time religion attempts to be predictive of the future (as Revelations does) it should be discarded, just like any other 'seer'-based predictions.

 

[Lord Sovereign]

In a way, the Church made the exact same mistake a lot of businesses have made: they threw away what they were to chase a wider market that never materialised.

And now they aren't what their original customers liked anymore...

 

[DarthOne]

In a way, the Church made the exact same mistake a lot of businesses have made: they threw away what they were to chase a wider market that never materialised.

And now they aren't what their original customers liked anymore...

Depends on which church you're talking about. Eastern Orthodoxy hasn't gone woke. And we are determined to fight tooth and nail to make sure it won't.

 

[Bacle]

Depends on which church you're talking about. Eastern Orthodoxy hasn't gone woke. And we are determined to fight tooth and nail to make sure it won't.

Which Eastern Orthodox church, because there are multiple different strains, and some of them have...less than benign (coughforeignintelagencycoverscough) reasons for opposing wokeness.

 

[DarthOne]

Which Eastern Orthodox church, because there are multiple different strains, and some of them have...less than benign (coughforeignintelagencycoverscough) reasons for opposing wokeness.

I’d love to know what evidence you have of this.

Also, if true, while I can’t say I’d be fan of foreign intelligence agencies using religious organizations as cover in the slightest, at the very least they aren’t helping destroy it with woke nonsense.

 

[Bacle]

I’d love to know what evidence you have of this.

Also, if true, while I can’t say I’d be fan of foreign intelligence agencies using religious organizations as cover in the slightest, at the very least they aren’t helping destroy it with woke nonsense.

Russian Orthodox Bishop Patriarch Kirill Was An FSB Spy In Switzerland: Swiss Newspapers

A Swiss police file on the Russian patriarch referred to him as "Monsignor Kirill" and confirmed that he worked for the KGB, reports said.

www.ibtimes.com

Orthodoxy and the KGB and FSB | Orthodox Church America.com

a document issued by Russian parliament "KGB agents, using such aliases as Sviatoslav, Adamant, Mikhailov, Nesterovich, Ognev, and others, made trips abroad, organized by the Russian Orthodox Church External Relations Department, performing missions assigned to them by KGB leadership"

www.orthodoxchurchamerica.com

@Marduk would you like to explain in detail about how the KGB/FSB have used Russian Orthodox churches as fronts, and tried to infil other Orthodox groups, and why @DarthOne should not be happy about that, even if it fight's wokeness.

 

[DarthOne]

Russian Orthodox Bishop Patriarch Kirill Was An FSB Spy In Switzerland: Swiss Newspapers

A Swiss police file on the Russian patriarch referred to him as "Monsignor Kirill" and confirmed that he worked for the KGB, reports said.

www.ibtimes.com

Orthodoxy and the KGB and FSB | Orthodox Church America.com

a document issued by Russian parliament "KGB agents, using such aliases as Sviatoslav, Adamant, Mikhailov, Nesterovich, Ognev, and others, made trips abroad, organized by the Russian Orthodox Church External Relations Department, performing missions assigned to them by KGB leadership"

www.orthodoxchurchamerica.com

@Marduk would you like to explain in detail about how the KGB/FSB have used Russian Orthodox churches as fronts, and tried to infil other Orthodox groups, and why @DarthOne should not be happy about that, even if it fight's wokeness.

Oh goodie I get to be enlighten by the great @Marduk. I’m sure this will be great.

I never said I was happy about it because it fights wokness. I said that at least they aren’t pushing woke nonsense. There’s a distinction there.

 

[Bacle]

Oh goodie I get to be enlighten by the great @Marduk. I’m sure this will be great.

I never said I was happy about it because it fights wokness. I said that at least they aren’t pushing woke nonsense. There’s a distinction there.

The distinction is still that you view foreign intel agents operating against your own nation as less of a threat than wokeness, if you truly meant what you said.

 

[Lord Sovereign]

Just to chime in with my opinion, I'm not so sure of an aggressive evangelicalism being the solution as it may end up pushing away people amenable to our cause (calling homosexuals sodomites and abominations is a great way of driving them into the arms of the left. And I don't care if, like "satanic," that's biblical terminology with a specific meaning, as most people don't understand that terminology anymore).

A quiet, humble, but profoundly sure of itself and averse to trends Christianity is the way forward in my opinion. Quiet, but happy to remind aggressors against it that Christ came with a sword. Also some Deus Vult memes won't go amiss!

 

[Marduk]

Oh goodie I get to be enlighten by the great @Marduk. I’m sure this will be great.

I never said I was happy about it because it fights wokness. I said that at least they aren’t pushing woke nonsense. There’s a distinction there.

Already explained that to someone else:

Russia(gate/bot) - Russia-Ukraine War Political Discussion

Well,they are americans.And for americans patriarch site made in 17th or 16th century certainly is ancient. I'm American and I agree with Buba. There are some fuzzy era boundaries and not all eras are agreed upon by everyone, but the Ancient era is pretty much gone when Constantine makes...

www.the-sietch.com

If your country had a major presence of a national church of a foreign country which yours is at war with, and it did such things, what would you propose be done about this institution?
Long story short, this is not USA, the debate around it has nothing to do with wokeness, there is hardly any wokeness to fight there, the fighting going on is about Russian imperialism, and that church is fighting for it (and own money), not "against wokeness".

 

[DarthOne]

Already explained that to someone else:

Russia(gate/bot) - Russia-Ukraine War Political Discussion

Well,they are americans.And for americans patriarch site made in 17th or 16th century certainly is ancient. I'm American and I agree with Buba. There are some fuzzy era boundaries and not all eras are agreed upon by everyone, but the Ancient era is pretty much gone when Constantine makes...

www.the-sietch.com

If your country had a major presence of a national church of a foreign country which yours is at war with, and it did such things, what would you propose be done about this institution?
Long story short, this is not USA, the debate around it has nothing to do with wokeness, there is hardly any wokeness to fight there, the fighting going on is about Russian imperialism, and that church is fighting for it (and own money), not "against wokeness".

The distinction is still that you view foreign intel agents operating against your own nation as less of a threat than wokeness, if you truly meant what you said.

Spare me. We got that same treatment when the Soviet Union still existed and we hate their guts.

 

[Marduk]

Spare me. We got that same treatment when the Soviet Union still existed and we hate their guts.

And yet you have the wokeness now, guess who was helping it along then.

 

[DarthOne]

And yet you have the wokeness now, guess who was helping it along then.

What part of ‘we hate the soviets’ did you miss?

 

[ATP]

This is nothing alarming to Christians. Our Lord told us that we would be persecuted and it would get worse and worse as his return drew near. That's okay. This life in a fallen world isn't the end-all-be-all.

Amen.But, we still should do everything we could to rebuild Chrystianitas which once existed.Then,it is our duty to fight those who prosecute our Faith and family - we could die without fight ONLY if it lead to our death,not others.

Being martyred isn't suicide. Being persecuted isn't suicide.

Both true.But,we have duty to fight if others are victims.Father Józef Bocheński made very good pararel about that - if i have gun and bandit come to kill me,i could let him kill me.
But,if i have somebody under my protection,i must kill bandit.