United States Biden's Ideas and Policies and Socialism

[History Learner]

So, now that we are about eight months in, I can say the Biden Administration has at least done three things right:

1. Getting us the fuck out of Afghanistan; we should've been there, I'm glad we're out and I don't see any of the criticisms as being valid in general terms.
2. Extending the Student Loan pause. It's good policy in a stopgap sense, and I personally benefited from it.
3. The Child Tax Credit reforms are good in a general sense, at least as a start.

Now, with that said, basically everything else has been bad and I'm still especially upset in three key areas:

1. No $15 minimum wage. This not only needs to happen, it needs to be indexed from inflation so we stop having this stupid fight every so often over what is, objectively, good policy and beneficial to the American public.
2. The pause is, on it's own, good but what is better is outright cancellation or at least doing the $50,000 proposals floated out there. While you're at it, let's fix the disaster our national universal system has become.
3. We need Universal Healthcare, full stop. This is obvious on it's own but especially so given the Pandemic.

 

[Wargamer08]

So, now that we are about eight months in, I can say the Biden Administration has at least done three things right:

1. Getting us the fuck out of Afghanistan; we should've been there, I'm glad we're out and I don't see any of the criticisms as being valid in general terms.
2. Extending the Student Loan pause. It's good policy in a stopgap sense, and I personally benefited from it.
3. The Child Tax Credit reforms are good in a general sense, at least as a start.

Now, with that said, basically everything else has been bad and I'm still especially upset in three key areas:

1. No $15 minimum wage. This not only needs to happen, it needs to be indexed from inflation so we stop having this stupid fight every so often over what is, objectively, good policy and beneficial to the American public.
2. The pause is, on it's own, good but what is better is outright cancellation or at least doing the $50,000 proposals floated out there. While you're at it, let's fix the disaster our national universal system has become.
3. We need Universal Healthcare, full stop. This is obvious on it's own but especially so given the Pandemic.

You're upset he hasn't piled more socialism onto his already existing extensive social programs? Well that's certainly a hot take. Hard disagree. Though the reason he didn't roll that stuff out is because even among Dems, support isn't high for that much market intervention.

Edit-Also can we not have another Zachowon derail about Afghanistan, there are other threads for that and I'm tired of the Biden one being all Afghanistan all the time.

 

[History Learner]

You're upset he hasn't piled more socialism onto his already existing extensive social programs? Well that's certainly a hot take. Hard disagree. Though the reason he didn't roll that stuff out is because even among Dems, support isn't high for that much market intervention.

Edit-Also can we not have another Zachowon derail about Afghanistan, there are other threads for that and I'm tired of the Biden one being all Afghanistan all the time.

Beyond the fact that none of the policies I suggested are socialism, it needs to be stated Biden has yet to do anything even remotely socialist. He's as neoliberal as Trump or Reagan, and if you feel otherwise you might want to go look at the overlap in political donors in 2020. Specific to the point about popularity of the policies, everything I suggested has not only broad support among Democrats but the American public at large. Hell, the $50,000 figure directly comes from Senate Dems and the House in the form of Pelosi and Chuck Schumer lol.

 

[Wargamer08]

Beyond the fact that none of the policies I suggested are socialism, it needs to be stated Biden has yet to do anything even remotely socialist. He's as neoliberal as Trump or Reagan, and if you feel otherwise you might want to go look at the overlap in political donors in 2020. Specific to the point about popularity of the policies, everything I suggested has not only broad support among Democrats but the American public at large. Hell, the $50,000 figure directly comes from Senate Dems and the House in the form of Pelosi and Chuck Schumer lol.

The federal government fixing the rate per hour for labor is the definition of socialism, likewise a federally run centralized medical system fixes the prices on everything related to heathcare. That's state intervention in private business and state run healthcare, but it's not socialism. Sure dude.

Political donors give money to anyone that they think they can influence, it's basically meaningless.

 

[History Learner]

The federal government fixing the rate per hour for labor is the definition of socialism, likewise a federally run centralized medical system fixes the prices on everything related to heathcare. That's state intervention in private business and state run healthcare, but it's not socialism. Sure dude.

Okay, taking this at face value, the U.S. is already Socialist so what's your point? Is Reagan a Communist for increasing the minimum wage? How about Dubya for Medicare Part D?

Political donors give money to anyone that they think they can influence, it's basically meaningless.

Ah yes, because Capitalists will definitely give money to Socialists who intend to take their properties, yes. Is that why they expected to have influence?

 

[Wargamer08]

Okay, taking this at face value, the U.S. is already Socialist so what's your point? Is Reagan a Communist for increasing the minimum wage? How about Dubya for Medicare Part D?



Ah yes, because Capitalists will definitely give money to Socialists who intend to take their properties, yes. Is that why they expected to have influence?

Sure why wouldn't someone with basically infinite money spend some on their enemy just to see if it would work?

Reagan was an economic illiterate if he thought increasing the minimum wage would do anything other then harm to poor low skill workers. Raising the minimum wage just pushes them out of the running for the shrinking job market, as seen by places like McDonalds moving to massive amounts of automation.

You can't have centralized medical care with the kind of immigration numbers the US has, nor is it anything more then a ponzi scheme to get the young to pay for the old and stupid. Like pensions, the majority of which are in massive crisis in the USA, they only seem to work for a while until you run out of people you can add to the bottom of the pyramid.4

 

[gral]

1. No $15 minimum wage. This not only needs to happen, it needs to be indexed from inflation so

That(indexing salaries to inflation) has been done before - see 1980's Brazil. Spoilers - it was a disaster. It contributed significantly to the Brazilian hyperinflation of the 1980's and early 1990's, although it sure wasn't the only one.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

Reagan's increase in the minimum wage was a bone to the Democrats of the time to gain their support for other things...for which they ended up not really supporting him. Hmmm...wonder why I don't think it's a good idea to compromise with the Left at this point.

 

[History Learner]

Sure why wouldn't someone with basically infinite money spend some on their enemy just to see if it would work?

Or, maybe, they don't see him as a Socialist because he isn't? Biden's been in Washington since the 1970s, do you really think they wouldn't catch on after 50+ years?

Reagan was an economic illiterate if he thought increasing the minimum wage would do anything other then harm to poor low skill workers. Raising the minimum wage just pushes them out of the running for the shrinking job market, as seen by places like McDonalds moving to massive amounts of automation.

Good thing this doesn't occur anywhere and we have literal mountains of research that say otherwise! You might want to read up on how McDonalds workers in Demark make $22 USD an hour, have paid vacations, and paternal leave for both mothers and fathers. No job losses there!

This is also ignoring the goal post shift from ideology to merit based assessment, so I'm at least glad you tacitly concede how silly it was to argue this was Socialist.

You can't have centralized medical care with the kind of immigration numbers the US has, nor is it anything more then a ponzi scheme to get the young to pay for the old and stupid. Like pensions, the majority of which are in massive crisis in the USA, they only seem to work for a while until you run out of people you can add to the bottom of the pyramid.4

Care to explain to me how every developed country but the U.S. has UHC with more per capita immigration and older demographics too? I'm not even joking, cite me one developed country without some form of UHC. I'll wait, but while you're at it you might want to read what the CBO has on the subject given they found in all circumstances the implementation of a UHC would lead to both better healthcare outcomes for Americans but also save the U.S. money.

That(indexing salaries to inflation) has been done before - see 1980's Brazil. Spoilers - it was a disaster. It contributed significantly to the Brazilian hyperinflation of the 1980's and early 1990's, although it sure wasn't the only one.

Difference being Brazil is a developing country. In developed countries, such as Australia which also does this, it hasn't been so I don't see this as a valid point.

 

[King Arts]

The federal government fixing the rate per hour for labor is the definition of socialism, likewise a federally run centralized medical system fixes the prices on everything related to heathcare. That's state intervention in private business and state run healthcare, but it's not socialism. Sure dude.

Political donors give money to anyone that they think they can influence, it's basically meaningless.

Why is it that economic right wingers always bitch and moan about muh universal healthcare is socialisms! But don’t seem to care that the government is the one who is in charge of police and fire fighters, in fact get angry at people talking about defunding the police. Why not go full free market in the 1800s there were private fire fighters let’s go back to that model:

 

[Wargamer08]

Why is it that economic right wingers always bitch and moan about muh universal healthcare is socialisms! But don’t seem to care that the government is the one who is in charge of police and fire fighters, in fact get angry at people talking about defunding the police. Why not go full free market in the 1800s there were private fire fighters let’s go back to that model:

I agree, government funded police has started to turn into an oppressive disaster.

Care to explain to me how every developed country but the U.S. has UHC with more per capita immigration and older demographics too? I'm not even joking, cite me one developed country without some form of UHC. I'll wait, but while you're at it you might want to read what the CBO has on the subject given they found in all circumstances the implementation of a UHC would lead to both better healthcare outcomes for Americans but also save the U.S. money.

I take it you aren't bothering to count the mass illegal immigration?

 

[History Learner]

I agree, government funded police has started to turn into an oppressive disaster.

So I take it you're an Anarcho Capitalist?

I take it you aren't bothering to count the mass illegal immigration?

Except illegal immigrants would not be available for such services on a non-emergency basis, given the lack of documentation, no? If you're worried about fuckery ala Sanctuary Cities, that is the benefit of UHC; it's Federal.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

Why is it that economic right wingers always bitch and moan about muh universal healthcare is socialisms! But don’t seem to care that the government is the one who is in charge of police and fire fighters, in fact get angry at people talking about defunding the police. Why not go full free market in the 1800s there were private fire fighters let’s go back to that model:

I'm much more in favor of local Sherrif's offices being better funded by their communities. They actually have more authority as a result of their makeup (at least here in Texas) than the Police Departments do.

 

[Zachowon]

I'm much more in favor of local Sherrif's offices being better funded by their communities. They actually have more authority as a result of their makeup (at least here in Texas) than the Police Departments do.

Same with GA

 

[Husky_Khan]

Why is it that economic right wingers always bitch and moan about muh universal healthcare is socialisms! But don’t seem to care that the government is the one who is in charge of police and fire fighters, in fact get angry at people talking about defunding the police. Why not go full free market in the 1800s there were private fire fighters let’s go back to that model:

Probably has something to do with them being economic right wingers... just a guess there.

Or how well managed Medicare/Medicaid and the VA Health Systems are I guess, whether its legitimate criticism or not.

Ultimately when it comes to Economci Right Wingers... it feels more like whether one would consider all of Health Care as a Public Good, as per say... what Adam Smith argued in in Book V of the Wealth of Nations (which coincidentally was the biggest section of the book). Adam Smith argued that the Sovereign/Commonwealth should be the one who spends that juicy tax and government revenue on certain 'public works' including:

"The expence of maintaining good roads and communications is, no doubt, beneficial to the whole society, and may, therefore, without any injustice. be defrayed by the general contribution of the whole society. This expence, however, is most immediately and directly beneficial to those who travel or carry goods from one place to another, and to those who consume such goods. The turnpike tolls in England, and the duties called peages in other countries, lay it altogether upon those two different sets of people, and thereby discharge the general revenue of the society from a very considerable burden." (Infrastructure)

"The protection of trade in general has always been considered as essential to the defence of the commonwealth" (Regulation of the Economy)

"The expence of defending the society, and that of supporting the dignity of the chief magistrate, are both laid out for the general benefit of the whole society. It is reasonable, therefore, that they should be defrayed by the general contribution of the whole society, all the different members contributing, as nearly as possible, in proportion to their respective abilities. The expence of the administration of justice, too, may, no doubt, be considered as laid out for the benefit of the whole society....Those local or provincial expences of which the benefit is local or provincial (what is laid out, for example, upon the police of a particular town or district) ought to be defrayed by a local or provincial revenue, and ought to be no burden upon the general revenue of the society. It is unjust that the whole society should contribute towards an expence of which the benefit is confined to a part of the society. " (Courts/Law Enforcement)

"The expence of the institutions for education and religious instruction is likewise, no doubt, beneficial to the whole society, and may, therefore, without injustice, be defrayed by the general contribution of the whole society. This expence, however, might perhaps with equal propriety, and even with some advantage, be defrayed altogether by those who receive the immediate benefit of such education and instruction, or by the voluntary contribution of those who think they have occasion for either the one or the other." (Public Schooling)

"the progress of improvement the practice of military exercises, unless government takes proper pains to support it, goes gradually to decay, and, together with it, the martial spirit of the great body of the people" (Military/Militia)

"Over and above the expence necessary for enabling the sovereign to perform his several duties, a certain expence is requisite for the support of his dignity. This expence varies both with the different periods of improvement, and with the different forms of government." (Basic Government/Head of State Support)

The question is whether modern day Health Care has grown enough to be considered one of the above, or at least in a manner beyond what mutant the United States currently has which is health care for the poor, old and veterans and the like instead of everybody.

 

[Free-Stater 101]

Or, maybe, they don't see him as a Socialist because he isn't? Biden's been in Washington since the 1970s, do you really think they wouldn't catch on after 50+ years?

I love how both of you are just engaging meaninglessly in the age old argument of what is the definition of socialist, the fact is that price floors and ceilings for wages are a modern socialist ideological position and no excuse changes that.

Good thing this doesn't occur anywhere and we have literal mountains of research that say otherwise! You might want to read up on how McDonalds workers in Demark make $22 USD an hour, have paid vacations, and paternal leave for both mothers and fathers. No job losses there!

That's a stupid and braindead example, because Denmark's cost of living is 2.38 times the worlds average, just because a country has a higher minimum wage doesn't mean higher purchasing power as shown by Denmark's small home size and yet still expensive cost.

Difference being Brazil is a developing country. In developed countries, such as Australia which also does this, it hasn't been so I don't see this as a valid point.

All countries economies exist in a vacuum from the others even western ones, I don't see how it's irrelevant as a point when being developing or not it caused price increases across the board.

Also, how does Brazil being a developing nation supposedly make the argument irrelevant? (I have an idea why you think that is but would like your reasoning.)

 

[LordsFire]

So, now that we are about eight months in, I can say the Biden Administration has at least done three things right:

1. Getting us the fuck out of Afghanistan; we should've been there, I'm glad we're out and I don't see any of the criticisms as being valid in general terms.
2. Extending the Student Loan pause. It's good policy in a stopgap sense, and I personally benefited from it.
3. The Child Tax Credit reforms are good in a general sense, at least as a start.

Now, with that said, basically everything else has been bad and I'm still especially upset in three key areas:

1. No $15 minimum wage. This not only needs to happen, it needs to be indexed from inflation so we stop having this stupid fight every so often over what is, objectively, good policy and beneficial to the American public.
2. The pause is, on it's own, good but what is better is outright cancellation or at least doing the $50,000 proposals floated out there. While you're at it, let's fix the disaster our national universal system has become.
3. We need Universal Healthcare, full stop. This is obvious on it's own but especially so given the Pandemic.

You really need to change your screen name.

Because you have learned nothing from economic history.

 

[Terthna]

Reagan's increase in the minimum wage was a bone to the Democrats of the time to gain their support for other things...for which they ended up not really supporting him. Hmmm...wonder why I don't think it's a good idea to compromise with the Left at this point.

That's not a compromise though; that's a concession given in the expectation of getting something in return at a later date.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

That's not a compromise though; that's a concession given in the expectation of getting something in return at a later date.

Yup, and it's pretty much how Reagan learned he couldn't trust the Democrats.

 

[Terthna]

Yup, and it's pretty much how Reagan learned he couldn't trust the Democrats.

If anyone expects to be able to take career politicians at their word (Democrat or otherwise), they're a fool.