Economics Changing how Colleges Work.

[Sailor.X]

It is the 21st Century and we have progressed far passed what our ancestors had centuries ago. So why are we using a University System that was designed well over a 1,000 years ago. Now when you go to College you are forced to take course that have nothing to do with your major. And you have to take a minor along with your major. What we need now is a more streamlined targeted education path that takes out all the fluff ant targets only what you need for your career path. Streamlining the system so what if you want to be a Doctor. After 6 years of training you will be a Doctor. No get your Bachelors then get your Masters then get your Doctorate. Too many outdated steps in the current process. So what are your suggestions for streamlining higher education?

 

[Cherico]

Take it all online it will be cheaper

 

[Typhonis]

Well for one... see if you can deal with student loans and remind everyone Trade Schools are a thing. There is a comic called Frazz. A little girl tells Frazz the janitor she wants to be a plumber when she grows up. Curious he asks why. She replies that her mother is a lawyer and is always, always looking for a plumber. Meanwhile she hasn't heard of a plumber desperately searching for a lawyer.

However the big thing seems to be Fed backed student loans. They encourage the school bloating by having the school add credits you need to pass and find a job.

 

[bintananth]

Find a way to expose and get rid of the lie/myth that you absolutely must have an academic education past a HS Diploma or GED to "make it" in the workplace.

In 2022 61.8% of recent HS graduates enrolled in a 2yr or 4yr college. That was a decrease from 2021.

Um, yeah. 60% of the jobs out there are not white-collar despite Census Data saying 60% of the workforce consists of white-collar professionals.

 

[Sailor.X]

Find a way to expose and get rid of the lie/myth that you absolutely must have an academic education past a HS Diploma or GED to "make it" in the workplace.

In 2022 61.8% of recent HS graduates enrolled in a 2yr or 4yr college. That was a decrease from 2021.

Um, yeah. 60% of the jobs out there are not white-collar despite Census Data saying 60% of the workforce consists of white-collar professionals.

The problem is that for some reason a lot of employers got it in thick skulls that you need a Bachelors or Better for certain positions. Which is hogwash given that before this line of thinking people use to be promoted to management from the regular rank and file employees. I have family who are retired that did just that. Went to work as a General Laborer. Retired as a Plant Manager.

 

[LordDemiurge]

got it in thick skulls that you need a Bachelors or Better for certain positions

Because inflation has hit highschool diplomas.

Schools are becoming diploma mills so now they feel that they need something to replace a debased certificate with something more expensive.

The issue frankly regresses to several layers really.

To fix colleges, it has to begin before college in middle-school and highschool. Public schools are viewed as more daycares then a place to get an education now.

Teachers aren't getting paid enough, not enough staff gets hired, money mostly just gets gobbled up through several layers of admin graft. Meaning you have to deal with a growing classroom of kids mixed with some can't speak english, others who really should be in their own separate special education classroom.

This of course leads to the problem underlining that. Which is that kids and parents are worse than they used to. Parents increasingly are confused at the idea that education also has to continue in the home. They don't regulate their children's vices, and failing them when they deserve typically triggers a hissy fit which of course pressures teachers to round that cumulative 49 grade to a 70. Which admins go along with because their funding demands a quota of good scores and passes.

 

[Sailor.X]

Because inflation has hit highschool diplomas.

Schools are becoming diploma mills so now they feel that they need something to replace a debased certificate with something more expensive.

The issue frankly regresses to several layers really.

To fix colleges, it has to begin before college in middle-school and highschool. Public schools are viewed as more daycares then a place to get an education now.

Teachers aren't getting paid enough, not enough staff gets hired, money mostly just gets gobbled up through several layers of admin graft. Meaning you have to deal with a growing classroom of kids mixed with some can't speak english, others who really should be in their own separate special education classroom.

This of course leads to the problem underlining that. Which is that kids and parents are worse than they used to. Parents increasingly are confused at the idea that education also has to continue in the home. They don't regulate their children's vices, and failing them when they deserve typically triggers a hissy fit which of course pressures teachers to round that cumulative 49 grade to a 70. Which admins go along with because there funding demands a quota of good scores and passes.

One more thing has changed. Kids no longer have a Summer break. They get homework for the whole summer. People need down time from school work to allow their minds to expand and critically think. Being constantly given class work has produced people that don't critically think. They only follow instruction.

 

[Bassoe]

As I see it, it's a degree inflation issue. If there are more potential employees than job openings, employers can be more selective, demanding lower salaries, worse working conditions and most relevantly to the matter of collages, more credentialism. Two generations ago, a getting a job would've required a high school diploma and actually knowing how to do it. One generation, it also needed a collage diploma. Now, it takes that in addition to years of unpaid internship. And so forth and so on.

 

[Sailor.X]

As I see it, it's a degree inflation issue. If there are more potential employees than job openings, employers can be more selective, demanding lower salaries, worse working conditions and most relevantly to the matter of collages, more credentialism. Two generations ago, a getting a job would've required a high school diploma and actually knowing how to do it. One generation, it also needed a collage diploma. Now, it takes that in addition to years of unpaid internship. And so forth and so on.

I would end that unpaid internship crap. At least in the Journeyman Program for trades you get paid actual money. Companies with internship are practicing slavery. And no one is calling them out on it.

 

[bintananth]

I would end that unpaid internship crap. At least in the Journeyman Program for trades you get paid actual money. Companies with internship are practicing slavery. And no one is calling them out on it.

The unpaid internship is a byproduct of some schools and programs making corporate internships a degree requirement. It quickly turned into a shitshow because companies figured out how to game the system almost instantly.

 

[Cherico]

The unpaid internship is a byproduct of some schools and programs making corporate internships a degree requirement. It quickly turned into a shitshow because companies figured out how to game the system almost instantly.

unintended conquences have always been a thing.

 

[LordDemiurge]

unintended conquences have always been a thing.

I hesitate to call it unintended.

When you have people competing for a narrow or limited opportunity, then the people in charge are pretty much free to charge and demand whatever they'd like from the competitors.

 

[TheRomanSlayer]

On top of that, not everyone is well suited for academic life after high school. I should know; I dropped out of college because I didn’t want to deal with the academic stress involved. I didn’t want to be bogged down in a three to four year diploma program when the world is turning to shit. Unfortunately, many people that came from the third world have the same corrosive mentality that you need to graduate from college in order to get a high paying job.

 

[ParadiseLost]

The unpaid internship is a byproduct of some schools and programs making corporate internships a degree requirement. It quickly turned into a shitshow because companies figured out how to game the system almost instantly.

Unpaid internships are very rare these days due to several successful lawsuits. When I was in college a few years ago the only unpaid internships were with non-profits.

At this point the legal liability is simply not worth paying interns less than minimum wage.

As I see it, it's a degree inflation issue. If there are more potential employees than job openings, employers can be more selective, demanding lower salaries, worse working conditions and most relevantly to the matter of collages, more credentialism. Two generations ago, a getting a job would've required a high school diploma and actually knowing how to do it. One generation, it also needed a collage diploma. Now, it takes that in addition to years of unpaid internship. And so forth and so on.

Degree inflation is definitely impactful. I am 22 and working on my MBA... because its more or less necessary for my career development, despite essentially being a checkmark.

Find a way to expose and get rid of the lie/myth that you absolutely must have an academic education past a HS Diploma or GED to "make it" in the workplace.

In 2022 61.8% of recent HS graduates enrolled in a 2yr or 4yr college. That was a decrease from 2021.

Um, yeah. 60% of the jobs out there are not white-collar despite Census Data saying 60% of the workforce consists of white-collar professionals.

If you want to make good money, it definitely helps.

Honestly I really doubt I'd be making $75K (more than the US median household income) at 22 if I hadn't gone to college. And I work in a fairly low COL area besides... once I move to be closer to my workplace I'll be living life on easy mode.

 

[Typhonis]

There are always the trade schools. I mean how often has a lawyer been desperate for a plumber as compared to a plumber being desperate for a lawyer?

 

[bintananth]

Unpaid internships are very rare these days due to several successful lawsuits. When I was in college a few years ago the only unpaid internships were with non-profits.

At this point the legal liability is simply not worth paying interns less than minimum wage.

So, that got fixed in the two decades since I left school.

Honestly I really doubt I'd be making $75K (more than the US median household income) at 22 if I hadn't gone to college. And I work in a fairly low COL area besides... once I move to be closer to my workplace I'll be living life on easy mode.

The median US paycheque is about $70K. Median household income (about $95-100K) is higher because 2-income households are quite prevalent.

You're in the middle of the paycheque pack.

 

[Bear Ribs]

So, that got fixed in the two decades since I left school.


The median US paycheque is about $70K. Median household income (about $95-100K) is higher because 2-income households are quite prevalent.

You're in the middle of the paycheque pack.

Middle of the pack is still a pretty good place to be at 22, given that generally opportunities to increase pay gradually happen over one's lifetime.

 

[ParadiseLost]

So, that got fixed in the two decades since I left school.


The median US paycheque is about $70K. Median household income (about $95-100K) is higher because 2-income households are quite prevalent.

You're in the middle of the paycheque pack.

Not according to the Census.

• Real median household income was $70,784 in 2021, not statistically different from the 2020 estimate of $71,186 (Figure 1 and Table A-1).

And then per the Federal Reserve of St Louis, real median personal income is about $37K

Real Median Personal Income in the United States

Graph and download economic data for Real Median Personal Income in the United States (MEPAINUSA672N) from 1974 to 2022 about personal income, personal, median, income, real, and USA.

fred.stlouisfed.org

Oh and here's the Fed's estimate of median household income, it agrees with the Census.

Real Median Household Income in the United States

View the inflation-adjusted value of the 50th percentile of the U.S. income distribution, as estimated by the Census Bureau.

fred.stlouisfed.org

 

[bintananth]

Not according to the Census.



And then per the Federal Reserve of St Louis, real median personal income is about $37K

Real Median Personal Income in the United States

Graph and download economic data for Real Median Personal Income in the United States (MEPAINUSA672N) from 1974 to 2022 about personal income, personal, median, income, real, and USA.

fred.stlouisfed.org

Oh and here's the Fed's estimate of median household income, it agrees with the Census.

Real Median Household Income in the United States

View the inflation-adjusted value of the 50th percentile of the U.S. income distribution, as estimated by the Census Bureau.

fred.stlouisfed.org

That FRED data is inflation adjusted and takes local cost of living into account. What they're using as the baseline to scale everything against and how they're scaling it is an opaque mess to wade through.

A benjamin is going to last a whole lot longer in a rural small town than it will in NYC where 1hr of parking at a meter might cost you $7.50. The St. Louis Fed sure as hell isn't using a rural small town as the baseline.

 

[TheRomanSlayer]

If there is one thing that I have to point out, various societies actually have their own level of obsession with their own kids going to college and getting that degree, and I’m talking about certain places. Asia has a special kind of cram school where they prepare their students for entrance exams so they can take it and see which college they’ll go once they get the results, and the regimen there can be very brutal.