Civic Nationalism or Ethnic Nationalism?

Generally a civic nationalist. I could see myself supporting ethnic nationalism in a few cases, IE they are having genocide committed against them by the country they are in so they want to break away, but the ethnic nationalism here in the west is much less justified.

Unless you are wanting to count "immigration control" as ethnic nationalism because you don't want your home culture(s) to have a sizeable foreign presence whose values are intrinsically different than yours or doesn't give them time to adapt because there are so many of their own people now to keep said values that they don't feel the need to "fit in" with the locals, causing a new divide within your country which is only going to cause ethnic strife down the line because both sides think "they are different than us" which can only lead to some problem later. Though I generally think of it more in terms of economics than an ethnic point of view.
 
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I’m an American and my family is from India so that makes me a Civic Nationalist. I lean towards civic nationalism, because what if someone is say a not strictly an ethnic Frenchman but likes France and admires its culture and traditions. As my parents immigrated to the US they adopted American values and proudly see themselves as US citizens. I myself being born here, value American culture and primarily see myself as an American first. And in general when it comes to immigration I think people coming in should make the effort to assimilate into the local culture adopting its traditions and values. I mean why come to America if you don’t value its core principles?

I have many friends from Eastern Europe who fled from Communism, they greatly admire the American system and its core values.
 
Basileus_Komnenos said:
I’m an American and my family is from India so that makes me a Civic Nationalist. I lean towards civic nationalism, because what if someone is say a not strictly an ethnic Frenchman but likes France and admires its culture and traditions. As my parents immigrated to the US they adopted American values and proudly see themselves as US citizens. I myself being born here, value American culture and primarily see myself as an American first. And in general when it comes to immigration I think people coming in should make the effort to assimilate into the local culture adopting its traditions and values. I mean why come to America if you don’t value its core principles?

I have many friends from Eastern Europe who fled from Communism, they greatly admire the American system and its core values.
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Proof that being Right-Leaning & Nationalistic doesn’t mean your Anti-Immigration altogether
 
Duke Nukem said:
What are your views?
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Navarro said:
He's from the Balkans, what do you expect?
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"He's from the Balkans" is a bit lacking in nuance as an explanation but it's not exactly wrong either. To clarify things a bit, I am not a Serbian nationalist but a Yugoslav one. I view Serbs, Croats, Bosniaks and Montenegrins as one people. For those unfamilliar with the area, there are honestly less differences between Serbs and Croats than there are between two random US states.

That said, I support Ethnic Nationalism in general and not just in relation to my own country. I've always found Civic Nationalism to be distasteful (a view I am sure many Civic Nationalists hold towards Ethnic Nationalism). It seems absurd to to me to ever think of an African, Asian, Indian or Arab as a Serb when they are very clearly not. It's kind of like having to go along with a transwoman when they insist on being a real woman. You just know it's not true.

Of course, most posters here are American and so pursuing any kind of Ethnic Nationalism there is a bit difficult. Especially given the country's current demographics. For Europe though, I think Ethnic Nationalism to be the superior option.
 
Drakar said:
"He's from the Balkans" is a bit lacking in nuance as an explanation but it's not exactly wrong either. To clarify things a bit, I am not a Serbian nationalist but a Yugoslav one. I view Serbs, Croats, Bosniaks and Montenegrins as one people. For those unfamilliar with the area, there are honestly less differences between Serbs and Croats than there are between two random US states.

That said, I support Ethnic Nationalism in general and not just in relation to my own country. I've always found Civic Nationalism to be distasteful (a view I am sure many Civic Nationalists hold towards Ethnic Nationalism). It seems absurd to to me to ever think of an African, Asian, Indian or Arab as a Serb when they are very clearly not. It's kind of like having to go along with a transwoman when they insist on being a real woman. You just know it's not true.

Of course, most posters here are American and so pursuing any kind of Ethnic Nationalism there is a bit difficult. Especially given the country's current demographics. For Europe though, I think Ethnic Nationalism to be the superior option.
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That is a good point. In America the country practically was founded on the idea of a Civil over ethnic nationalism purpose. Which is why most of the country leans that way.
Though some people will make it Ethnic for wrong reasons, both sides of the parties
 
Drakar said:
"He's from the Balkans" is a bit lacking in nuance as an explanation but it's not exactly wrong either. To clarify things a bit, I am not a Serbian nationalist but a Yugoslav one. I view Serbs, Croats, Bosniaks and Montenegrins as one people. For those unfamilliar with the area, there are honestly less differences between Serbs and Croats than there are between two random US states.

That said, I support Ethnic Nationalism in general and not just in relation to my own country. I've always found Civic Nationalism to be distasteful (a view I am sure many Civic Nationalists hold towards Ethnic Nationalism). It seems absurd to to me to ever think of an African, Asian, Indian or Arab as a Serb when they are very clearly not. It's kind of like having to go along with a transwoman when they insist on being a real woman. You just know it's not true.

Of course, most posters here are American and so pursuing any kind of Ethnic Nationalism there is a bit difficult. Especially given the country's current demographics. For Europe though, I think Ethnic Nationalism to be the superior option.
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Meh, understandable, different countries, different values. America has a bunch of people who have "mutt" ancestry as it were, Slavs, Germans, British, Indians, Iberians, various African ethnic groups, etc. Civic nationalism is the only way we can hold together as a nation, because ethnic nationalism would be a bit hypocritical about now and would only make us tear each other apart, unless you give us a few more hundred or so years in isolation so our ancestry becomes so muddled that we might as well be one ethnicity. Being founded from various states deciding to stay together and then inviting a lot of immigrants who eventually assimilated would do that.

Another country who is mostly homogeneous in its population, and therefore culture, can understandably find it weird to find that some person of another ethnicity would call themselves their people, when they almost certainly have different cultural and historical backgrounds and almost certainly look different from the native group to make it even more obvious who the outsider is.
 
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It depends on the nation. The identity of some nations is so closely tied to ethnicity that they are inseparable. In some cases, ethnicity isn't as important. In almost every case, you cannot fundamentally change the ethnic makeup of a nation without changing and undermining its national identity.
 
Civic nationalism, Ethnic nationalism assumes that those who look like you are automatically part of your culture, I could go to Harvard and Yale and find plenty of people who are anathema to the very idea of America, and I can go to the worst parts of the planet and find people who despite their appearance or land of their birth are American.
 
Most fundamentally - nations are not dirt, nations are not paper, nations are not cloth, nations are not lines on the ground. A nation is a people with a shared identity and that identity often includes ethnicity, religion, culture, language, traditions and so on - though it can sometimes not have one or more of those things. Just because you're standing on some patch of dirt across some line on the ground doesn't make you part of a nation. Just because you have some sheet of paper doesn't make you part of a nation. Just because you're living under the same flag doesn't make you a part of a nation.
 
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