Commentary on the current affairs of The Sietch

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That's the point Master of the Obvious. Glad you finally caught up. :LOL:

I don't think Zoe herself ever used the term doxx anyways. Everyone else here is using the SB definitional term. Which implies SB admins are cool with their definition of doxxing.

Cool, I dont really care what sb staff say, and checked out of the whole Horton thing, but it's good to know Zoe wasn't doxed, the whole constant outside attack stuff had me a little worried
 
I feel as if I'm right back in the PMs, even if I was a comparatively late addition: I go to sleep, and rather than eight hours passing it feels like three days have passed, a war has broken out, four people have married, eighteen pages are full of either gun or abortion debates that I have no wish to participate in or even read, and I have no clue what's going on. Somewhere on the board UA says something that ought to be a bipartisan consensus, or at least a guide for a modus vivendi. Or at least someone says that UA said as much. Then three different things happen all at once, and before I know what's going on I have to go to sleep.

Figuratively, that's how I feel about "the current affairs of The Sietch".🤨
 
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I feel as if I'm right back in the PMs, even if I was a comparatively late addition: I go to sleep, and rather than eight hours passing it feels like three days have passed, a war has broken out, four people have married, eighteen pages are full of either gun or abortion debates, and I have no clue what's going on. Somewhere on the board UA says something that ought to be a bipartisan consensus, or at least a guide for a modus vivendi. Or at least someone says that UA said as much. Then three different things happen all at once, and before I know what's going on I have to go to sleep.

Figuratively, that's how I feel about "the current affairs of The Sietch".🤨
You're telling me. These are days when I regret working such long hours, because it keeps me out of the loop. And I hate typing out long rants on my phone.

Could the world just... Slow down and fucking take it easy for a few weeks?
 
So I'll give some constructive criticism of this site:

  • You don't have enough members for a sustainable forum. Currently the top 20 accounts represent almost 50% of the current total posts. That's accounts, not members given the existence of alts, and doesn't include Deleted Member 1, whose posts count towards the total but doesn't show up in the rankings anymore. This indicates an incredibly small pool of active posters.
  • You have many factors that will inhibit your growth. You have a complete lack of defined identity, you distrust outsiders because of fears of an "invasion", and you have someone that seems to view it as a fiefdom for vanity posting. Outrage at SB for perceived slights can only take you so far and the answer seems to be "this far". There is absolutely nothing here to bring in new members.
  • Your moderation and administration is a mess. Don't get riled up at that, even though I know you want to, because the longer it takes you to figure that out, the worse you'll do. I know many people on your staff have experience running a forum and at least one has experience starting an SB offshoot in the past, but you wouldn't actually know it. Complete lack of identity and all the complete missteps related to a certain staff member are a part of this. You're trying to manage issues on your own forum but can't because you're still too salty at some random asshole from another site.
  • You have had a continuous stream of optics problems and own-goals. This really ties in with the above, but it feels like at every level you don't realize how stuff comes off or how much harder you are making things for you. So you had a staff member say they're a fascist. That's a bad move right off the bat, but then you decided to delete the account and edit the posts. Then you can't keep your stories straight about whether or not that was a staff member. This would have been all bad enough without them having their own subforum that's filled with posts by "Deleted Member 1" and their current alt. This is a pretty minor crisis but you managed to make it oh so much worse, and that's just one little item.
  • Alts are a bad idea, alts are a bad idea, alts are a bad idea. The reasons given for having them were pretty subpar and show a lack of professionalism or in some cases, basic levels of caring about the forum. Plus, now every ostentatious female poster that seems a bit full of themselves is going to be assumed to be all the same person.
  • I know its technically optics and lack of identity, but you made your forum name a joke at your own expense. I hope it was meant to be self-deprecating.
Oh and two random things?

First of all, lets be super real:




If you have an account on a forum that's old enough to vote and you have a very distinctive personality, people are going to know its you even before you start literally reposting your old stuff. Also, blaming stuff on being drunk is a sign of immaturity or possibly alcoholism.

Take it if you want, ignore it if you want, but you have issues you need to work on or you're going to have to decide whether its better to burn out or fade away.
 
@Jessica Atreides
Good stuff, but I disagree about the branding.

This place is pretty well branded as a good place to go if you're tired of the thought police. All it needs to do is not screw up much, and and people will come here steadily, and in bunches when related forums have problems.
 
Everyone just needs to chill a bit. Zoe is mildly (in)famous on SDN and had a presence on SB. She tried to hide the connection to those old accounts as an anti-doxxing measure. Turns out her posting style is a bit recognizable. Isil'zha just figured that out and commented on it, if I'm getting this right. Could be kind of a dick move, but it wasn't his secret to keep.

It's RitterinSophia who seized on that connection to out Zoe as trans in the mistaken belief that we are a board of Nazis who would harass her away if we found out. Just internet drama shitposting of the kind RS and her crew are fond of.

Now that said Mistakes Were Made. That the alt-accounts were taken from SDN practice I can buy. I don't think there was any ill-intent there. We've had a plausible explanation about Punch Card Girl. So what now?
 
So I'll give some constructive criticism of this site:

  • You don't have enough members for a sustainable forum. Currently the top 20 accounts represent almost 50% of the current total posts. That's accounts, not members given the existence of alts, and doesn't include Deleted Member 1, whose posts count towards the total but doesn't show up in the rankings anymore. This indicates an incredibly small pool of active posters.
The most active SB spinoff after SV & QQ. Sure, growth is going to slow but it is still beating any of them save SB, SV & QQ for new members.
  • You have many factors that will inhibit your growth. You have a complete lack of defined identity, you distrust outsiders because of fears of an "invasion", and you have someone that seems to view it as a fiefdom for vanity posting. Outrage at SB for perceived slights can only take you so far and the answer seems to be "this far". There is absolutely nothing here to bring in new members.
The free and frank exchange of ideas is TS's identity. As for distrusting outsiders, that is a joke considering that a number of users and staff had nothing to do with the SB PM's. The only distrust of outsiders that exists is distrust of those who are actively attacking the site and/or joining for no reason save to sow discord.

  • Your moderation and administration is a mess. Don't get riled up at that, even though I know you want to, because the longer it takes you to figure that out, the worse you'll do. I know many people on your staff have experience running a forum and at least one has experience starting an SB offshoot in the past, but you wouldn't actually know it. Complete lack of identity and all the complete missteps related to a certain staff member are a part of this. You're trying to manage issues on your own forum but can't because you're still too salty at some random asshole from another site.
New board and everyone is still settling into their roles.

  • You have had a continuous stream of optics problems and own-goals. This really ties in with the above, but it feels like at every level you don't realize how stuff comes off or how much harder you are making things for you. So you had a staff member say they're a fascist. That's a bad move right off the bat, but then you decided to delete the account and edit the posts. Then you can't keep your stories straight about whether or not that was a staff member. This would have been all bad enough without them having their own subforum that's filled with posts by "Deleted Member 1" and their current alt. This is a pretty minor crisis but you managed to make it oh so much worse, and that's just one little item.
Yes, @Zoe fucked up. She cared about optics and gave into the idiocy brigade; in the process making things worse. Was her fuckup understandable? Yes. Was it excusable in light of what else was occurring at the time? Yes.

As for optics; we really don't care. This site was made, and exists, to promote and foster free speech and the free exchange of ideas. The content of those ideas is almost entirely immaterial to TS. Are people, including staff, likely to post things that are going to be seen as harmful or "bad optics" by many others (especially those inclined to already take issue with TS)? Yes, undoubtedly.

Do we care? No, not really. @Zoe 's mistake was caring; not the post that started this whole bout of idiocy.

  • Alts are a bad idea, alts are a bad idea, alts are a bad idea. The reasons given for having them were pretty subpar and show a lack of professionalism or in some cases, basic levels of caring about the forum. Plus, now every ostentatious female poster that seems a bit full of themselves is going to be assumed to be all the same person.
Alts are a necessity if you are remotely security conscious or sane. Linking identities, even pseudonymous ones, across platforms is a horrible idea unless you go out of your way to prevent issues. In addition, we support (as both a matter of principal and policy) anonymity and privacy. The only reason that we don't allow the general user base to make alternate accounts is that they will primarily be used to get around bans and are virtually impossible to effectively police (if allowed) under the XF software. Neither is a concern with Admin alts.

---
Bluntly speaking; if you don't like how the site is managed/run or its purpose then why are you here? While we (the staff) like and desire a large user base, you as individuals are pretty much utterly irrelevant. Especially those who haven't/aren't helping to fund the site.

I don't see anyone with a subscriber banner bitching, do you?
 
SB has a brand? :unsure:

Beyond basic inertia? :p

I mean with ten thousand active members that's good enough. Can't hate on that.

And the only people that have been banned is a self proclaimed Nazi and a Pedophile as far as WE know... so the outsider thing is kinda diet concerns IMHO. All of the spooky outsiders are still posting here, usually in threads they created like these... :unsure:
 
Gotta say, kinda off-topic, but the Creative Writing Section really lags behind in-comparison to non-CW
That it does. Although a good part of that is simply that our initial user base was fairly politics heavy and we are the only SB related board that allows pretty much unlimited political discussion without the insanity of visiting Horton's board.
 
Alts are a necessity if you are remotely security conscious or sane. Linking identities, even pseudonymous ones, across platforms is a horrible idea unless you go out of your way to prevent issues
This is a single platform, what is the security concern of having a single account on a single forum? Nobody is asking you to make it the same as anywhere else, or use your Blizzard Real Name.

Just a single account on a single forum.
While we (the staff) like and desire a large user base, you as individuals are pretty much utterly irrelevant.
This is a pretty unforced error that you should probably look at and think over. You might accidentally be recreating a lot of the problems SB had with its staff that caused it a lot of problems.

As for myself, I thought I could give some honest feedback rather than the normal reaction you expect.
I don't see anyone with a subscriber banner bitching, do you?
Perhaps you could get more people with subscriber banners?
 
This is a pretty unforced error that you should probably look at and think over. You might accidentally be recreating a lot of the problems SB had with its staff that caused it a lot of problems.

As for myself, I thought I could give some honest feedback rather than the normal reaction you expect.
You can give honest feedback. Note that this thread hasn't been shut down, nor have any of the staff made any effort to end it or punish individuals for talking about this topic. Bitching about us or how we run TS isn't going to get people banned, punished, or otherwise treated differently than any other user.

Incidentally, note how you are reacting to my post. Because I have the staff banner you are feeling like you are attacked because I disagree with you; while I could make substantially the same post as a regular user and you wouldn't feel attacked or unwelcome.

Perhaps you could get more people with subscriber banners?
If people want to support TS, they are more than welcome to do so (and said support comes with a number of perks). That being said, this forum was conceived on, and built around, the premise of free speech.

Besides the few ToS level restrictions and generally asking for ideas to be expressed in a civil manner, we are not the content police and expressly do not care what ideas, positions, or policies individuals (either regular users or staff) advocate for, support, defend, or otherwise discuss. Anyone expecting TS, its ownership, or its current staff to change policy in response to outcry over positions that don't violate our few rules is - frankly - delusional.

If you can't bring yourself to help support the site because of views expressed by the site staff or leadership then that's on you. We aren't going to change ourselves or the site in an attempt to get your dollars.
 
The most active SB spinoff after SV & QQ. Sure, growth is going to slow but it is still beating any of them save SB, SV & QQ for new members.

The SB mega-PM had enough members to beat any SB spin-off after SV and QQ.

As for optics; we really don't care.

To be blunt, this isn't an attitude that will help you or your site in the long run. Optics do matter, especially when you're trying to promote the free exchange of ideas... while simultaneously struggling with a widespread perception that you're far-right or alt-right, even while also your owner and administrator is embroiled in scandal, not to mention openly a fascist.

To be honest, I'm not sure I could do anything so publicly disastrous if I tried. You as a group need to be learning lessons from this.
 
Because I have the staff banner you are feeling like you are attacked because I disagree with you; while I could make substantially the same post as a regular user and you wouldn't feel attacked or unwelcome.
I think you're substantially misunderstanding the situation here: I'm not feeling attacked (at least not in any way I would ever be concerned about), I'm pointing out errors you're making in an official capacity. I feel a bit silly and awkward for having to ask, but are you aware that you will have to act in an official capacity at some point? With your actual account? Maybe it would be good to post more carefully and with more attention with your official identity?

And again, since you forgot to answer the question: What is the security risk of having a single account on a single forum?
If you can't bring yourself to help support the site because of views expressed by the site staff or leadership then that's on you.
You're jumping to some conclusions here. Discussions of ideology were minimal in my posts, limited to me saying that an admin saying they're a fascist is a Bad Look for a forum with your genesis, but there were many other criticisms there. I feel this is what you want my criticisms to be about, and are going to ignore areas that you could possibly improve in as a result.
 
This' beginning to sound like part of the plot of Aristillus by Travis J Corcoran.

The guy who founded the moon city but ironically isn't so economically powerful(he goes broke because he sells his stocks relatively cheap in order to fund militias during the invasion) or interested in politics, leadership and rule ends up constantly fighting his Mormon Ally who wants to make a "small government" that's both a betrayal of the general philosophy/ideals/principles of the place and something to potentially make the place as horrible as the Earth they escaped from

Just so you know, the Mormons there REALLY wanted to force out a Casino on the basis of it being "immoral" and could somehow hurt people and because "there are more rights than simply the right to free speech and commerce" like "the right for your kid not to see a casino bunny and the right not to see and hear from people who are having decadent fun"
 
Why should we care about optics in regards to people who already hate us and would like nothing better than to destroy us? For people who unironically call for reeducation camps for those who dissent from their wokeness? For people who seem to think that they are so 'morally superior' to the rest of us hoi polloi that we should shut up and give them everything they want, and kiss their ass for the privilege of being treated like dirt by them?

Why, tell me, should we give a single solitary god damn about what those people think of us? Newsflash. We Don't Care What The Social Justice Left Thinks Of Us. We consider their opinions to be about as valuable as an armpit or an asshole, we all have them, and they stink.

If you are here to engage in civil debate, regardless of ideology, welcome. If you are just here to bullshit about music and sci-fi and stay out of politics, more power to you. If you are here just for the fics and quests, great! If you are here just to stir up shit, just to throw shit at the rest of us, just to engage in bad faith and inanity, then whine about how WE need to adjust our 'optics' to fit YOUR vision of what we should be? Don't let the door hit you where the good Lord split you.
 
If you are here just to stir up shit, just to throw shit at the rest of us, just to engage in bad faith and inanity, then whine about how WE need to adjust our 'optics' to fit YOUR vision of what we should be? Don't let the door hit you where the good Lord split you.
This isn't intended as an insult, but good lord, calm down. If you get this riled up over legitimately offered constructive criticism, you are going to have a hard time dealing with people showing up to actually shit on you. You need some thicker skin if you want to make it as a moderator and people that react this much make perfect targets for trolls.
 
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