Confederate Flags banned in the Military

[Husky_Khan]

Those symbols are not of an enemy/traitors that 100,000's died to defeat.

And people wonder why parts of the center and Left see the Right as 'very welcoming' to white supremacists and such.

The more you all defend Confederate symbols, the more of the center you lose, remember that.

Then compromise. This election we'll remove the Confederate stuff.

Next election we'll compromise and remove the references to Colombus and colonialism and conquistadors and Catholic missionaries.

If we fight really hard, we can keep the references to Andrew Jackson around by 2028. But maybe by 2030 we can have a "discussion" on the original White Supremacist Traitors and begin negotiating the removal of slave owning founding fathers from the public sphere.

If we really dig in our heels I think we can keep the Washington Monument up, just rename it the Unity Obelisk.

 

[Free-Stater 101]

I mean there are multiple bases named after Confederate generals

If they go after the names of bases I propose we officially change the names of Fort Hood and Fort Bragg to be named after these guys out of spite.

Edward S. Bragg - Wikipedia

John Hood (naval officer) - Wikipedia

Yeah, I would love to see their faces as they rejoice about stripping Fort Bragg and Fort Hood of their names, only to have them renamed the same exact same thing five seconds later by technicality.

 

[Bacle]

If they go after the names of bases I propose we officially change the names of Fort Hood and Fort Bragg to be named after these guys out of spite.

Edward S. Bragg - Wikipedia

John Hood (naval officer) - Wikipedia

Yeah, I would love to see their faces as they rejoice about stripping Fort Bragg and Fort Hood of their names, only to have them renamed the same exact same thing five seconds later by technicality.

Actually, that would be a genius way to screw with the Left.

That is the kind of thinking needed to beat them long term.

 

[PsihoKekec]

I don't think they're aware. I doubt they read history books.

They don't care, all dead white males must go.

 

[Husky_Khan]

Actually, that would be a genius way to screw with the Left.

That is the kind of thinking needed to beat them long term.

Interesting. How exactly do you envision this taking place with the current political process and climate?

 

[Bacle]

Interesting. How exactly do you envision this taking place with the current political process and climate?

How do you envision winning when your playbook is out of date, is the better question?

Trump only has one more term, at best; you want to win the fight after he's gone?

Deal with the world as it is, not as you wish it to be. Until the Right update their playbook, they will keep playing catch up and defense in the public sphere.

 

[Lanmandragon]

It’s a flag and again like you said most people see it as southern pride and not a racist symbol. This is dumb I know Hispanic Asian and black Americans who own those flags gah this is so dumb

Also the government should definitely not have gone after a flag after the civil rights act that’s stupid and hugely authoritarian.

Symbols can change.

Ehh this argument holds some water in reference to statues. There's really no reason members of the US armed forces. Should be allowed to fly the flag of an enemy {even defunct} as a matter of principle. How folks "view" it is frankly totally irrelevant it's the flag of tratiors.

 

[Husky_Khan]

How do you envision winning when your playbook is out of date, is the better question?

Trump only has one more term, at best; you want to win the fight after he's gone?

Deal with the world as it is, not as you wish it to be. Until the Right update their playbook, they will keep playing catch up and defense in the public sphere.

Clever response. What is your playbook though in this specific instance. I took his comment as a joke. You apparentlybthink getting this troll past the Armed Services Committee is a legitimate tactic to win something. I'm just looking for substantiation.

No need to rush. Take your time.

 

[Bacle]

Clever response. What is your playbook though in this specific instance. I took his comment as a joke. You apparentlybthink getting this troll past the Armed Services Committee is a legitimate tactic to win something. I'm just looking for substantiation.

No need to rush. Take your time.

Because it shows the sort of outside the box, 'turn their rules against them' thinking that will be needed to preserve conservative and centrist ideals into the future.

That method, subverting their own demands via wit and cleverness, instead of engaging it with anger or blackpill rhetoric, will get far more of the center on the Right's side.

The 'same old, same old' sort of conservative tactics are not going to work well anymore. Adapt or die is a universal rule, the Right and conservatism are not excepted from that.

 

[Floridaman]

Clever response. What is your playbook though in this specific instance. I took his comment as a joke. You apparentlybthink getting this troll past the Armed Services Committee is a legitimate tactic to win something. I'm just looking for substantiation.

No need to rush. Take your time.

Maybe it is the fact that I deal with the government often but malicious compliance is an actual tool. Also regarding flags, what if a soldier has the Mississippi state flag, they didnt ban that.

 

[Husky_Khan]

Maybe it is the fact that I deal with the government often but malicious compliance is an actual tool. Also regarding flags, what if a soldier has the Mississippi state flag, they didnt ban that.

It is which is why I'm asking Bacle what his thinking on the matter is beyond platitudes. Because the Armed Forces committee already moved forward on renaming bases so I'm trying to see how his wit can translate to actual policy.

I personally have no idea the process itself regarding base names so I'm curious as well. But all I see here is good sounding word salad.

 

[S'task]

So... owning a flag is now proscribed by the military, or is it merely keeping or displaying the flag while in uniform or keeping one on base?

Because those are two very different things and I have two different responses for them.

If it's just not having Confederate flags on base or as unit symbols or displaying one while in uniform... OK, it's the military's base and if you're displaying one while in uniform I can see why the military would have issues with it. There's a lot of rules governing how members of the military can act while in uniform in order to keep them neutral, etc.

That said, if it's a matter of prohibiting the mere ownership of the Confederate flag even off base... I do have to take issue with that (I would also take issue with such a proscribing of owning a Nazi flag or any otherwise legal property). The mere act of owning a Confederate flag is not a racist statement as there's any number of reasons a person might own it beyond making a racists statement. They could simply collect flags (and, let us be frank, one of the reasons that the Confederate Naval Jack and Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia stick in people's minds so much is that it is just a well designed and good looking flags), they could collect Civil War memorabilia, or they just could like being edgy and owning "controversial" things. Prohibiting the ownership of a controversial thing for military members seems to go to far and I think would likely be unconstitutional.

 

[Husky_Khan]

Because it shows the sort of outside the box, 'turn their rules against them' thinking that will be needed to preserve conservative and centrist ideals into the future.

That method, subverting their own demands via wit and cleverness, instead of engaging it with anger or blackpill rhetoric, will get far more of the center on the Right's side.

The 'same old, same old' sort of conservative tactics are not going to work well anymore. Adapt or die is a universal rule, the Right and conservatism are not excepted from that.

So your potential plan to implement this policy is???

 

[hyperspacewizard]

First off fuck compromise the left doesn’t stop ever. stop playing by their rules stop bending over backwards and god damn don’t call me racist or a traitor for liking and owning a damn flag holy shit I so tired of that fucking bullshit. A whole lot of confederate soldiers died for things that they thought where important and it sure as hell wasnt slavery that may have been the top one percent reason but the people dying didn’t own a slave you want to talk about racism and stupidity grant was a massive piece of crap. To me and a lot of people it’s always be about states rights over the federal government

 

[Bacle]

First off fuck compromise the left doesn’t stop ever. stop playing by their rules stop bending over backwards and god damn don’t call me racist or a traitor for liking and owning a damn flag holy shit I so tired of that fucking bullshit. A whole lot of confederate soldiers died for things that they thought where important and it sure as hell wasnt slavery that may have been the top one percent reason but the people dying didn’t own a slave you want to talk about racism and stupidity grant was a massive piece of crap. To me and a lot of people it’s always be about states rights over the federal government

And to the rest it looks the same as when Japan denies and deflects about comfort women and gets angry about monuments to them.

 

[Husky_Khan]

And to the rest it looks the same as when Japan denies and deflects about comfort women and gets angry about monuments to them.

That's a terrible metaphor. Like you could've made a plethora of metaphors comparing the two groups that would've made infinitely more sense.

No one here is denying slavery.

Unless your equivocating Wartime sex slavery with antebellum States Rights arguments?

 

[Abhorsen]

That's a terrible metaphor.

No one here is denying slavery.

Unless your equivocating sex slavery with antebellum States Rights arguments?

Not here, maybe, but there is a real alternate history of slavery that was successfully pushed by the South, in one of the great propaganda coups of the world. They re-framed the conflict as if it were about states rights, not slavery (which you just fell into, btw, and part and parcel of the general chattel slavery was sex slavery, where the kids were also slaves), and then also have worked hard making slavery seem not as bad as it actually was. They have done this by seizing control of art and culture about this particular part of history, much as the left now controls the current narrative. It's ingenious and insidious.

 

[Bacle]

That's a terrible metaphor.

No one here is denying slavery.

Unless your equivocating sex slavery with antebellum States Rights arguments?

It's a wonderful metaphor for how this is viewed by many in the nation, you just don't like hearing it.

Also, framing slavery as a 'states rights' issue is disingenuous at best, and is blatant Lost Cause propaganda.

 

[Husky_Khan]

Not here, maybe, but there is a real alternate history of slavery that was successfully pushed by the South, in one of the great propaganda coups of the world. They re-framed the conflict as if it were about states rights, not slavery (which you just fell into, btw, and part and parcel of the general chattel slavery was sex slavery, where the kids were also slaves), and then also have worked hard making slavery seem not as bad as it actually was. They have done this by seizing control of art and culture about this particular part of history, much as the left now controls the current narrative. It's ingenious and insidious.

Yeah that's all great but then the metaphor would've been the Japanese Textbook controversy in regards to the Lost Cause narrative.

Alas... No one is talking about the Lost Cause narrative. We're talking about the removal of Southern heritage and symbols from the public and government spaces. And the metaphor is... Japanese Disaffection with Comfort Women amd their monuments?

It's a wonderful metaphor for how this is viewed by many in the nation, you just don't like hearing it.

No. Your poorly formed arguments don't offend my sensibilities. My point is your metaphor wasnt applicable or a clear parallel, not that it was uncomfortable.

Like instead of your dumb metaphor regarding comfort women, maybe your metaphor could've pertained to Japanese shrines and statuery relating to the War in Asia or the Yasakuni Shrine which would've been directly parallel. But instead you went with the dumb and off base and imprecise comfort women metaphor.

I didnt think I'd have to literally explain it to you why I thoughtbyour metaphor was shit like your a child but well here we are...

Also, framing slavery as a 'states rights' issue is disingenuous at best, and is blatant Lost Cause propaganda.

Good grief. I'm not framing the Civil War as a States Rights Issue. Since you can't follow my writing, I'll make it so simple even you can (still fail) to understand.

Dude: Removing Confederate Statues and symbols is disagreeable. It's part of Southern heritage and I dont advocate slavery and beyond slavery think the traitor argument is ironic considering the American Revolution.

Bacle: Thats just like the Japanese being angry at Comfort Women monuments and denying their existence. Thats what you look like.

Dudette: Your metaphor is shit. There are better metaphors to make between the Confederact and Imperial Japan
and no one talked about denying slavery. Unless your equivocating comfort women with the States Rights/Traitor issue. /s

You: Oh I'm just going to dog whistle that you just dont like that you actually endorse slavery/comfort women and the Lost Cause narrative. Hurr Hurr *spoils pants*

Again. Your metaphor is imprecise and shit. Like I MADE OBVIOUS in my last post you could've chosen a more apt metaphor comparing the Confederacy and Imperial Japan so clearly your bullshit about me not liking your comparison is either you not understanding me or you just beimg an ass. Or both.

 

[hyperspacewizard]

I’m more pissed that we keep losing freedoms and cultural landmarks. I’m tired of being called nasty names and losing freedoms. People talk about this isn’t the hill to die on etc etc but we just keep retreating. They never stop ever it’s always more and more and Bacle and Abhorsen do you really believe the the actual soldiers who died on the confederate side are too be scorned like is they bravery and skill in battle worthless the men on the ground where poor people who couldn’t own a slave if they wanted they where fighting for something vastly different then what you presume.

Besides forget the history lesson how does anyone deal with the fact that the flag is now mostly about southern pride and multiple different races of people will wave it