Discussion on EchoChambers, Religion and Origins of the 2020 Civil Strife

Cherico

Well-known member
Quite a few people on Both sides see Centrists as either "Idiots" or "fence sitters" sadly.

well lets see a whole bunch of american cities are litterally burning down, the lockdown didnt was more or less totally ineffective and destroyed our economy for what I see as basically minimal gains. We have had mass wide spread censorship, attacks on reporters. People going into peoples homes and trying to shoot them and all of that is currently coming from the left.

Objective reality states that the left has a problem and you need to actually go in and deal with them. That means you have to unfuck the FBI and treat Antifa like an actual terrorist group, that means following the money and putting people in prison, that means instead of talking about holding the tech companies accountable you actually do it.

but the way I see it is this, were going to have to wait until the pain of inaction is worse then the pain of action until people finally fix this mess.
 
D

Deleted member 88

Guest
@Bacle is mistaken.

Anyone reading this thread shouldn’t take my word for it. But read what they say for themselves. Assuming good faith on these people’s part is their first successful manipulation of conscience and people’s innate desire to be moral.

The left thrives when making emotional moral appeals, which we are often put on the back foot for.

To deal with this trickery, we must deny them any assumption of sincerity on their part. Except that they are sincerely malicious.

I understand that people don’t want to do that. It’s toxic and mean spirited to say and think “these people should be written off as bad and opposed as though they are the devil himself” I get that. Few people want to treat people that way, even their enemies.

It’s true though. These people mean “well” the same way the Bolsheviki “meant well” or the SDS “meant well”. That is what they consider meaning well is bad. And evil.

I get it, that’s an awfully mean spirited and divisive way to think. But it is better than giving moral credit to the undeserving.
 

Shadepen97

Well-known member
@Bacle, you're flying into left-wing nuttery because your world view got rocked. You need to calm down.
While you are not wrong, Bacle also has a point about this coming close to an echo chamber. I just think that some people should stop dog-piling him and just let this lie for a few hours and coming back when we all have cooler heads, is that alright?
 

The One Char

Well-known member
While you are not wrong, Bacle also has a point about this coming close to an echo chamber. I just think that some people should stop dog-piling him and just let this lie for a few hours and coming back when we all have cooler heads, is that alright?
I'm gonna ask @Bacle this, you didn't realize you friends father was an asshole how do you know it's not the same for your center-left friends?
 

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
I'm gonna ask @Bacle this, you didn't realize you friends father was an asshole how do you know it's not the same for your center-left friends?
I don't, for the most part.

But I also don't live within 100 ft of them, or have seen them as almost a second father in the past, and haven't seen them as examples of almost model GOP members.

You are right that my world view has been rocked, and it may be affecting me more than I want to admit.
 

LordsFire

Internet Wizard
@Bacle is mistaken.

Anyone reading this thread shouldn’t take my word for it. But read what they say for themselves. Assuming good faith on these people’s part is their first successful manipulation of conscience and people’s innate desire to be moral.

The left thrives when making emotional moral appeals, which we are often put on the back foot for.

To deal with this trickery, we must deny them any assumption of sincerity on their part. Except that they are sincerely malicious.

I understand that people don’t want to do that. It’s toxic and mean spirited to say and think “these people should be written off as bad and opposed as though they are the devil himself” I get that. Few people want to treat people that way, even their enemies.

It’s true though. These people mean “well” the same way the Bolsheviki “meant well” or the SDS “meant well”. That is what they consider meaning well is bad. And evil.

I get it, that’s an awfully mean spirited and divisive way to think. But it is better than giving moral credit to the undeserving.

This is a terrible idea.

Do not assume malice on the part of the left. That's the same thing that leftists do to villify the right.

Instead, look to the results of their actions and policies. Evaluate them based upon those outcomes.

Then, after you've seen those outcomes, go back to analyze the reasons they give for the policies, and the ideology that's based on.

You don't have to assume anything to be distrustful of the left. You just have to have your eyes open and your brain working, and it'll become clear whether they're acting out of benevolence, malice, laziness, or uncaring self-interest.

The riots, where they happen, and how the left and right both react, are an excellent case study of this, which is why I believe this is only going to help Trump's re-election odds. Even more, I expect it'll get a lot of people paying closer attention to more local elections as well.
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
The riots, where they happen, and how the left and right both react, are an excellent case study of this, which is why I believe this is only going to help Trump's re-election odds. Even more, I expect it'll get a lot of people paying closer attention to more local elections as well.

I think some people have realized/remembered that these riots are occurring in Democrat States/Cities/Strongholds

May not be a YUGE number, but enough to start getting the ball rolling
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
Religion, I think, only REALLY becomes a gateway to being more Moral when aside from reading the creation story texts, Ten Commandments and other stuff. You look up all those philosophical, theological and strange scientific stuff being added on the side combined with debates that even heavily analyze and try to find new meanings in those old texts

I'm glad we're not all an echo chamber, hell I'm sorta expecting a Civil War between Religious Right types with more Socially Liberal-Right types

That said, I will say this....people want higher causes. Media and Academia has for so long depicted the Far Left as being the "underdogs" and everybody wants to be a "hero" and everybody wants to be "unique"....doing all this "bending the knee" and such is sorta making em all look like "heroes" fighting some great oppressor

Can you take away that feeling? That feeling of being a righteous REBEL who sees the world to be against him? You can't.

These guys are a part of something "greater" than themselves and they get approval from others, this approval is worth more than sex, worth more than money, worth more than life

People can get drunk on this feeling.....though strangely enough, I don't think there are any ultra-charismatic figures around who can make speeches full of "passion" to control these dudes
People do want Higher causes, that is why people want CHANGE so much they want to be responsible for the change of the country and the policies going on. Perhaps that is why the left praises all of this!

Even those without religion generally seek to improve themselves for the fact they will live better, and multiple Atheists and agnostics i know, I can have a debate about this stuff with, and are Bernie supporters. SO There is that
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
People do want Higher causes, that is why people want CHANGE so much they want to be responsible for the change of the country and the policies going on. Perhaps that is why the left praises all of this!

Even those without religion generally seek to improve themselves for the fact they will live better, and multiple Atheists and agnostics i know, I can have a debate about this stuff with, and are Bernie supporters. SO There is that

They're well intention(kinda), their methods are not so well thought out, unfortunately
 

PeliusAnar

Well-known member
@Bacle is mistaken.

Anyone reading this thread shouldn’t take my word for it. But read what they say for themselves. Assuming good faith on these people’s part is their first successful manipulation of conscience and people’s innate desire to be moral.

The left thrives when making emotional moral appeals, which we are often put on the back foot for.

To deal with this trickery, we must deny them any assumption of sincerity on their part. Except that they are sincerely malicious.

I understand that people don’t want to do that. It’s toxic and mean spirited to say and think “these people should be written off as bad and opposed as though they are the devil himself” I get that. Few people want to treat people that way, even their enemies.

It’s true though. These people mean “well” the same way the Bolsheviki “meant well” or the SDS “meant well”. That is what they consider meaning well is bad. And evil.

I get it, that’s an awfully mean spirited and divisive way to think. But it is better than giving moral credit to the undeserving.

I agree with this 110%. All the left has are emotional appeals and finger pointing at individual situations. If you try and actually talk hard numbers, they tend to just say, 'What about this person?' or 'What about this event?' I do have to say thank you to the left for doing this, since it actually turned off a couple of my family members, just the sheer nonsense spewed from the media that is devoid of any kind of facts. There are no thought leaders on the left, who can argue their positions without emotional appeals. They have gotten so used to it and intellectually lazy, it becomes appeearent in any kind of debate or discussion.


This is a great clip done by Vice, that has black conservatives and liberals go over a wide range of issues. The moderator keeps things very on point. I will say that the conservative individuals are much stronger in their debate skills, probably because they get a lot of pressure from their friends and family all the time, so they constantly have to defend themselves. My favorite is the woman in the center middle, with the clips in her hair. If you don't want to watch the whole thing just watch from 17:30 to 21:05, that lady goes on a roll.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
I agree with this 110%. All the left has are emotional appeals and finger pointing at individual situations. If you try and actually talk hard numbers, they tend to just say, 'What about this person?' or 'What about this event?' I do have to say thank you to the left for doing this, since it actually turned off a couple of my family members, just the sheer nonsense spewed from the media that is devoid of any kind of facts. There are no thought leaders on the left, who can argue their positions without emotional appeals. They have gotten so used to it and intellectually lazy, it becomes appeearent in any kind of debate or discussion.


This is a great clip done by Vice, that has black conservatives and liberals go over a wide range of issues. The moderator keeps things very on point. I will say that the conservative individuals are much stronger in their debate skills, probably because they get a lot of pressure from their friends and family all the time, so they constantly have to defend themselves. My favorite is the woman in the center middle, with the clips in her hair. If you don't want to watch the whole thing just watch from 17:30 to 21:05, that lady goes on a roll.

Jubilee also has good ones where they have to competing sides and have them talk, generally the left side is a little less restrained and makes straw men arguments but at times they get better and argue properly. Vegan and Me Too were some of the more good ones.
Vice did good with this
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag

They don't want to do their job anymore.

So selfish of them, why do they care more about their own survival and possibly the safety of their employees more than the greater good?

This just shows how much Capitalism Has Failed

Time to Nationali-oh wait Nationalism is fucking Nazism, I mean time to Communize all those Businesses. Let’s seize the means of production!!!
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
So selfish of them, why do they care more about their own survival and possibly the safety of their employees more than the greater good?

This just shows how much Capitalism Has Failed

Time to Nationali-oh wait Nationalism is fucking Nazism, I mean time to Communize all those Businesses. Let’s seize the means of production!!!
Hey, please stop dooming.
I'm with Invictus on this....let's give this a break for a few days guys. It's been rough for everybody.
I wouldn't say close it, since updating this can be important.
Instead I would recommend take time off, go do something. I work in a place I cant use my phone for instance.
Just step away, go for a run, play video games
 

Senor Hortler

Permanently Banned
Permanently Banned
Hey, please stop dooming.

I wouldn't say close it, since updating this can be important.
Instead I would recommend take time off, go do something. I work in a place I cant use my phone for instance.
Just step away, go for a run, play video games
Can confirm, easiest way to kill mad at the internet syndrome is to move away from the internet. I planted some potatoes, trimmed by blueberry bush and marathoned Witcher 3 on Death March. That kills mad at the internet and makes you mad at Leshy's and Drowners instead.
 

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