Comrade Clod
Gay Space Communist
This word, I do not think it means what you think it means.
Far left funding antifa
- Thread starter Cherico
- Start date
This word, I do not think it means what you think it means.
Please dont try "but it wasn't real socialism" as an argument.
Oh my god, are you actually "that wasn't real socialism" to defend your "that wasn't really right wing"?
Absolutely fantastic levels of lacking self awareness
Comrade Clod
Gay Space Communist
I don't have to because the Nazis were in fact ultra conservative ultra reactionary corporatists.
Note how they imprisoned the socialists and not the kaiserboo prussians of the military?
Left wing or right wing is irrelevant here. Nazism and fascism draw shit from all over the spectrum and Fascism was made by a former socialist. My argument is just that Nazism drew a lot from socialist economic ideas. I'm arguing that politics is not a line and you just travel real far right and you end up at Nazism. I don't consider that to be clean cut "this is right wing" because it drew shit from everywhere.
What was ultraconservative about them?
Comrade Clod
Gay Space Communist
Well i mean lets see.
The Anti-Semetic rhetoric was a common feature, massive support of the military, jingoism, homosexuals in concentration camps, minorities in concentration camps, privatising government owned utilities, sucking the fat schlong of corporate interests, literal breeding centres for women, distinctly low opinions of other ethnicities, imprisoning the socialists, not imprisoning the monarchists, not imprisoning the conservatives...
I can go on.
Shipmaster Sane
You have been weighed
Truly a stunning counterargument. This routine usually impress people?
Comrade Clod
Gay Space Communist
Its not meant to since my audience is, by and large, somewhat biased.
Its meant to show that i'm having difficulty understanding what the fuck this argument is about.
You'd think the nation that dedicated itself to destroying "judeo-bolshevism" may in fact not have been socialist.
Shipmaster Sane
You have been weighed
Yeah, commies would never kill other commies, that would never happen.
Che Guevara put gays in concentration camps, Stalin certainly saw them as degenerate. Marx and Engels themselves certainly had no love for gay men. They didnt suck corporate interests either. They made corporate interests suck them. It wasnt corporate interest that turned Nazi Germany into a war machine. What is remotely conservative about a fucking breeding center either? And mensheviks were imprisoned too by the Soviets. Massive support of the military can also be found on the left as well. Does it not call for armed revolutions and a revolutionary guard quite often? Mistreatment of minorities isnt inherently conservative either, neither is anti-semitism. Literally nothing you are listing has anything to do with conservatism, you are just listing a bunch of bad things, you think conservatism is a bad thing, and therefore these bad things are conservative. Explain what about these things is conservative, explain what you think conservatism is.
Judeo-capitalism too. Jews were simultaneously the communists and the rich bourgeois and the traitor in the trenches stabbing you in the back for the Nazis, whichever one appealed to you more to hate.
Nitramy
The Umbrella that Smites Evil
Comrade Clod
Gay Space Communist
...
I, did you just call Hitler a commie?
The man who railed against the "evils" of communism and socialism both?
Shit I should write down wherever you learned that they're way better at brainwashing than the Universities, we should adopt their tactics.
Yeah but, and here me out on this one.
The Nazi's were pretty much identical to fascist regimes, because they were fascist, which is an ultraconservative ideology.
This is so 2018 get better material.
Think for a moment and explain what ultraconservative actually means. Take time to write out a bit, explain conservatism and then ultraconservatism.
Nitramy
The Umbrella that Smites Evil
Good luck trying to get a "muh feelings" person to actually start putting their brain cells to use.
Shipmaster Sane
You have been weighed
Holy shit, you're really having trouble keeping up aren't you. Deep breaths, we'll get through this together.
You say "Nazis cant be Commies, they kill commies!"
I say "Commies always kill commies"
You say "Did you just call them commies?"
You acted as though "Killing socialists" precluded you from being one, when in fact more socialists have been killed by socialists than by any other group on the planet. If anything, killing pinkos should be taken as a concerning sign that you might be one.
Comrade Clod
Gay Space Communist
We are in a thread where people are literally arguing the guy who wanted to destroy socialism was a socialist.
If I have no brain cells you must have achieved the impossible and gone into the negatives.
If you aren't an idiot I shouldn't have to explain the basics of an ideology most here proclaim to profess.
That and the fact that Fascism is a reactionary ideology by nature, thus Hitler by being a fascist is a reactionary, which is basically saying "conservative, but with those rare parts which make it occasionally not shit removed."
prinCZess
Warrior, Writer, Performer, Perv
I mean...According to other socialists, the Bolsheviks themselves weren't socialist and they dedicated themselves to destroying the not-socialism of the Mensheviks and the Makhnovites. Socialists having organization issues and hating on each other for betraying the revolution isn't unheard of.
That said, while you might be able to make some argument of connection, even overlap, between Nazism and Socialism (as prominent in 1930s Europe) in their rising and general theory of subordination to the state, that connection very decidedly got stabbed in the back and/or shot in the neck during the Knight of Long Knives and it's really not accurate to apply the label to Nazism as popularly seen in its post-1934 rulership of Germany (so the overwhelming majority of it). Italian Fascism might have a bit more of an argument to be made for it, but even it experienced much the same distancing from related movements with the squadrasti violence getting used as a support-play by the party and Mussolini to oppose and suppress (other?--this is where a fuzzy dividing line exists, so present as you will) socialists and propagandize themselves as the protectors of Italian virtue and honor and business interests and yadda yadda yadda.
Of course, this bizarre nature of Fascism is kind've why 'Third Way' got coined as a descriptor and is really one more people should use. Since fascism bears some oddball connections with socialism (arguably an outgrowth of it, even, considering the origins of Mussolini and major elements of the eventual Nazi regime--which, again, got shotted because they were politically inconvenient saps for Hitler), and definitely has much the same philosophy on subserviance to the group. But Fascism pairs that with more traditional, pants-on-head European stuff, and all their rhetoric over manliness and babies and eugenics and national spirit and war that distances them from most socialists (who typically rhetoricize towards 'peace' and 'brotherly international cooperation of workers'...Even if, in practice, that has a tendency of falling apart into 'Stalin good, you shall obey' or variants thereof).
Its not about me needing explanation. In order to reach an understanding I want to know what you believe conservatism is, and from there what ultraconservatism is. Its the only way you can move forward from "Yes it is!" "No it isn't!" I want you to explain these two things and what makes something conservative and ultra conservative, because I can tell you right now a god damn breeding center is the exact opposite of conservative.
Nitramy
The Umbrella that Smites Evil
It's almost like fascism took the shitty parts out of every system of politics and turned it into one giant shit sculpture.
Meanwhile, the "muh feelings" apologists here will deny that fascism took parts out of their system or do not have the nuance to recognize the parts of their own system within that edifice of shit.
Meanwhile, the "muh feelings" apologists here will deny that fascism took parts out of their system or do not have the nuance to recognize the parts of their own system within that edifice of shit.
D
Deleted member 1
Guest
In fact, by the definition provided in this thread, Allende was a Nazi.