• The Sietch will shortly be brought offline for HPG systems maintenance. Please remain calm and do not start any interstellar wars while ComStar is busy. May the Peace of Blake be with you. Precentor Dune
  • Hey (name)! This is a general announcement to all of our members that we have a growing Alternate History and Creative Writing section that is increasingly seeing new content. If you haven't taken a look lately, please do so and perhaps leave a comment or reaction if you read something you like! Let's support our writers!
  • For those of you who would like to support the Sietch financially, subscriptions are BACK. Simply click on Account Upgrades and you will be able to upgrade your account!
  • The 'Comrade' title is now available in a fetching communist red for purchase by all of you capitalists who survived the Sietch gulag during the people's revolution. And in the spirit of all communists everywhere, it was broken until the capitalist pig dogs fixed it. ;)
  • Your beloved Boot here with a confession. The Boot tangled its laces and failed to properly set up the new Comrade user title. Thanks to the kind intercession of Emperor Tippy this failure has been corrected and the new user title is now actually on sale to everybody.

Fictional "Villains" Who Did Nothing Wrong Thread

Battlegrinder

Someday we will win, no matter what it takes.
Moderator
Staff Member
Founder
Obozny
Joined
Aug 11, 2019
Reaction score
5,248
@Battlegrinder @Navarro

Another thing to consider is that, and bear in mind it's been a while since I played Fallout 3, but when you first encounter Autumn, he has no reason to trust you more than any other (dubiously civilized) nobody in the wasteland. And even before you assault the Enclave-controlled Project Purity, you've been allied with enemies of his.
Yes, he has no grounds to trust you. That doesn't excuse him executing you when you're a helpless prisoner.
 

Bassoe

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 25, 2021
Reaction score
579
Apex Cybernetics from Godzilla vs Kong. There's absolutely nothing wrong with their ideals of 'humans should be earth's dominant species' or with the idea of 'we should enforce this by building giant robots to kill anything that threatens our position', just with their abysmally stupid decision to use bits of kaiju corpse which they knew had inexplicable properties (which are why they used it) as their giant robot's control mechanism rather than conventional software and/or a human pilot.
 

ShadowArxxy

Well-known member
Sotnik
Joined
Aug 31, 2019
Reaction score
3,362
Apex Cybernetics from Godzilla vs Kong. There's absolutely nothing wrong with their ideals of 'humans should be earth's dominant species' or with the idea of 'we should enforce this by building giant robots to kill anything that threatens our position', just with their abysmally stupid decision to use bits of kaiju corpse which they knew had inexplicable properties (which are why they used it) as their giant robot's control mechanism rather than conventional software and/or a human pilot.
This seems to be a pretty standard idiot ball in science fiction.

I would also point out that when it comes to other species that aren't even sapient-sentient-civilized and are on our own home planet, there isn't even a moral argument for not maintaining human dominance. The kaiju are literally animals, just ones with extraordinary capabilities. It would make sense to make Skull Island some kind of preserve because wiping that entire ecosystem out would be *stupidly wasteful*, but preparing means to defend ourselves when those creatures are rampaging through our homes is universal common sense.

Also, there is so much science to do.
 

LindyAF

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 3, 2021
Reaction score
1,917
save that Autumn has a better chance of building something that actually lasts.
Why do you think this? The Brotherhood seems like it’s much more prevalent and arguably seems to be the organization with the most power on a continental scale in Fallout.
 

DarthOne

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 6, 2019
Reaction score
5,410
Why do you think this? The Brotherhood seems like it’s much more prevalent and arguably seems to be the organization with the most power on a continental scale in Fallout.
(X) Doubt
 

Lord Sovereign

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 6, 2020
Reaction score
3,861
Location
England
If anything, the big boys of post war America are undoubtedly the New California Republic and Caesar's Legion (to a certain extent with the latter. But even they are stronger than the shattered remains of the Enclave). The Brotherhood is often overshadowed at best by them, if not playing second fiddle or outright crushed. They were once gallant knights, but their use by date is expiring.
 

LindyAF

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 3, 2021
Reaction score
1,917
We certainly know that the BOS collapsed completely in the Midwest according to FO4, completely lost control of the Capital Wasteland also according to FO4, and was reduced to hiding out in bunkers on the West Coast.
I missed that they lost control of the Capitol and Citadel per FO4. Per the wiki, the situation is pretty different, although I'm not sure how accurate that is.

As of 2287, it is clear that the Brotherhood is an unrivaled power in the region, and draws most of its new recruits from the area. What started with the East Coast Brotherhood protecting people from super mutants and raiders led to defeating the Enclave and distributing free clean water to the people, turning them into the governing power in the Capital Wasteland. Based on information from dialogue, terminals, and holotapes the Brotherhood appears to have evolved politically and governs the Capital Wasteland directly as its own "country."
If anything, the big boys of post war America are undoubtedly the New California Republic and Caesar's Legion (to a certain extent with the latter. But even they are stronger than the shattered remains of the Enclave). The Brotherhood is often overshadowed at best by them, if not playing second fiddle or outright crushed. They were once gallant knights, but their use by date is expiring.
This is definitely true in F:NV, but neither faction appears at all outside that game. They're definitely the big dogs in their own back yard, but they don't appear to project any power on a continental scale.
 

Lord Sovereign

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 6, 2020
Reaction score
3,861
Location
England
This is definitely true in F:NV, but neither faction appears at all outside that game. They're definitely the big dogs in their own back yard, but they don't appear to project any power on a continental scale.
They are fledgling empires in the process of expansion. There is no one else in old America who can project power like that.
 

LindyAF

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 3, 2021
Reaction score
1,917
Neither does the BoS - it's sub-organisations are completely autonomous.
They're implied to be in contact, at least- Arthur Maxson is stated to have the support of the Western Elders (Although given the comparative success of the Eastern Brotherhood over the Western, this is probably a rubber stamp, but still shows contact and coordination). The East Coast Chapter is capable of power projection as well - it shows up in New England.
 

Navarro

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 11, 2019
Reaction score
7,173
They're implied to be in contact, at least- Arthur Maxson is stated to have the support of the Western Elders (Although given the comparative success of the Eastern Brotherhood over the Western, this is probably a rubber stamp, but still shows contact and coordination).
Arthur Maxson claims to have the support of the Western Elders. Just like he also claims to have killed a deathclaw at 13 and ended the split with the Outcasts at age 16.
 

LindyAF

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 3, 2021
Reaction score
1,917
Arthur Maxson claims to have the support of the Western Elders. Just like he also claims to have killed a deathclaw at 13 and ended the split with the Outcasts at age 16.
Mending the split with the outcasts would be something that'd be pretty hard to convincingly lie about though. Like if the Brotherhood Outcastes were still around that would be something that would be hard to hide. Him mending the split also makes sense- Maxson's Eastern Brotherhood has pretty clearly drawn from Lyon's reforms, which was what prompted the split. The deathclaw story goes that he killed a deathclaw at age 13, and it almost killed him but almost killed him and left him badly scarred in return, which is a scar he still has.

Having the support of the Western Elders isn't unbelievable if communication between them is believable- he's already leading probably the most successful existing chapter of the Brotherhood in FO4 (at least, unless he's lost control of the Capitol Wasteland, but at least I'm not sure where you got that info).
 

Basileus_Komnenos

Imperator Romanorum Βασιλεύς των Ρωμαίων
Joined
Dec 21, 2019
Reaction score
804
Alright I'm gonna say it: Yhwach From Bleach the villain from Bleach's Thousand Year Blood War Arc.


His Imperial Majesty, Ywhach, Father of the Quincies, Emperor of the Wandenreich.

"The Confined King, 900 years to regains his pulse after 900 years, his mind after 90 years, his strength after 9 years, and the world in 9 days."
-- The Quincy Song Prophesizing Yhwach's return.​

Originally you're given the perspective and history of the world of Bleach from the perspective of Soul Society and the Soul Reapers who live and operate in it. The Soul Reapers/Shinigami are presented as noble guardians of peace and protectors of the balance of the world. Though the cracks in this narrative begin to show once you actually see Soul Society up close. Its government under the Central 46 is quite corrupt and incompetent while its own internal structure is heavily stratified and stagnant.

Then there's the issue of the Quincies who were a race of humans with spiritual energy that allowed them to fight hollows. Though unlike Soul Reapers the Hollows they defeat aren't purified and returned into the Soul Cycle, but destroyed. The initial explanation was that this led to conflict between the Soul Reapers and Shinigami which led to most of the Quincy being wiped out leaving a small remainder whose numbers dwindled over the centuries.

If you guys are planning on watching Bleach when it returns later this year or next year you guys will probably really enjoy it as some of the high points in this arc really give the acclaimed Soul Society Arc a run for its money despite the rushed ending. I have no doubt the anime will probably fix a lot of those issues as most of those issues were caused by Kubo's health failing forcing him to end the manga early.

Yhwach is essentially the father/progenitors of the Quincies who a thousand years earlier led the Quincies in a bloody conflict against the Shinigami hence the name of the arc: The Thousand-Year Blood War Arc. You learn here about the true nature of the Soul King and Soul Society.

The first seeds of doubt about the nature of Soul Society and the Soul King are planted into the readers'/viewers' minds in the interactions between Urahara and Aizen. A notable example of this is when Aizen is finally defeated and sealed by Urahara.


Aizen is uncharacteristically engaging in an unhinged rant which is very unusual for his character as he's known for his calm and rational demeanor. It makes viewers/readers wonder what exactly was so bad about the Soul King for Aizen to hate him this much (the anime shows this even more as Aizen in a fit of rage starts violently ripping off parts of the seal as its envoloping around him). Funny enough while Urahara accepts the Soul King's rule he similarly doesn't necessarily refer to him with much respect either. From what we're told by other characters, the Soul King is an absolute ruler whose spirutual presence is felt everywhere, though he doesn't actually directly rule soul society with his power actually being delegated to the Central 46 which functions as essentially an assembly of nobles with the Gotei 13 serving to enforce its rules. The Soul King however resides in a separate "dimension" of sorts guarded by the Zero Squad
During the Thousand Year Blood War its actually revealed that the Soul King is actually not actually a real King. He's basically a tool used by the Shinigami to propagate their corrupt system of rule for millennia. With the actual Soul King essentially a corpse kept in a state between life and death inside some sort of crystal suppressing his power. Originally the state of the world was such that all the various realms (Hueco Mundo, Soul Society, the Living World, etc) were all one before being split apart through the Soul King's power (he's essentially a divine being or sorts). In this primordial world souls and humans existed alike before the sudden emergence of hollows which began devouring humans. In response to this chaos the Soul King emerged and with his power (its seems to be quite similar to the Quincy powers) he used to defend the weaker souls and humans from being consumed by these monsters.

The other 5 Great Noble Families then concerned about the Balance of the world sealed up the Soul King with him being the lynchpin that maintains the artificial separation of the world. Though the Shiba clan ancestor protested against doing so and offered himself up as the lynchpin. Though he eventually relented as he wanted some sort of purification for the Hollows instead of having them wiped from existence. Fearing that the Soul King would escape, they add to their betrayal/Original Sin by mutilating the Soul King, rendering him essentially a quadriplegic. Inside the crystal he's essentially trapped in a comatose state for millenia as nothing but a tool for the Shinigami. The Shinigami essentially introduced death as a concept in the world creating the reincarnation cycle for souls.


The original form of the Soul King.
This was where Ywach the Quincy Emperor comes in. Ywach is the Soul King's son and during the original Thousand Year Blood War, he essentially led a revolution/uprising against the Shinigami's rule. In the world of the living, Ywach conquered large swathes of it establishing his "Empire of Light." From there he invaded Soul Society set on restoring the old world where death didn't exist and to end his father's humiliation.

Yhwach however was defeated by Yamamoto (the head of the Gotei 13) with his monster Bankai. The result of the battle essentially left Ywach comatose and powerless for almost a thousand years. Furthermore the Shinigami (the Old Gotei 13 captains were psychotic and bloodthirsty murders only brought in line through Yamamoto's overwhelming strength) then went on a campaign of extermination against the rest of the Quincy all but wiping out Ywach's bloodline while his Empire fell to ruin. The survivors of the Lightreich (Empire of Light) essentially flee with their fallen Emperor to a separate realm establishing the Wandenreich (Walled Empire) awaiting Yhwach's return.

Yhwach during the Thousand Year Blood War Arc ruthlessly takes out the Shinigami in the Sereitei and the Zero Squad guarding his father's corpse essentially. Ywhach then mercy kills his father thereby "ending his humiliation," and absorbs his father's power becoming the new Soul King. Yhwach tries to merge the separated world back together in its original state, but ultimately fails as he's killed by Ichigo. Though the worst part is that Yhwach as the new Soul King had his corpse enclosed as the new lynchpin upholding Soul Society. This is a fate worse than death. The worse part is that if things had been a bit worse with Yhwach's corpse not really salvageable, the Zero Squad and Shinigami were planning on secretly making Ichigo the new lynchpin.

Yhwach honestly wasn't that bad initially until probably after his original fight with Yamamoto which sees him become twisted and hell-bent on revenge during the TYBW Arc. Despite his selfishness, a world where Yhawch probably wins is likely a much better one than the current one. The existing system under the Shinigami was failing with there being so many hollows outnumbering the Shinigami. Their devotion towards "the balance of the worlds" comes at the cost of the many innocent human souls devoured by the hollows. Then there's the fact that Soul Society itself is quite stratified with most of its souls living in abject poverty in worse conditions than the people on earth.

The world Ywhach envisioned was essentially free of death as well. With the quincy the hollows could probably be kept more easily at bay as well. For all the criticisms that people like Ichibe made of the original world when he saw it as stagnant, the same could be said of their system as well while the Quincy have advanced massively in terms of technology and organization resembling a modern military force as opposed to the Gotei 13 which resembles Feudal Japan. Yhwach had flaws and while he may have been villainous, he still had a point at the end of the day.
 
Last edited:

Val the Moofia Boss

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 6, 2020
Reaction score
701
Yhwach tries to merge the separated world back together in its original state, but ultimately fails as he's killed by Ichigo.
Oh no, is this another one of those "we have the opportunity to undo death, but we aren't going to do so because death gives meaning to our lives?" anime/JRPG protag rationales? The ending also reeks of "we should preserve the status quo, no matter how crappy it is. People who try to change society and improve the world are villains and usurpers who need to be stopped!".
 

Basileus_Komnenos

Imperator Romanorum Βασιλεύς των Ρωμαίων
Joined
Dec 21, 2019
Reaction score
804
Oh no, is this another one of those "we have the opportunity to undo death, but we aren't going to do so because death gives meaning to our lives?" anime/JRPG protag rationales? The ending also reeks of "we should preserve the status quo, no matter how crappy it is. People who try to change society and improve the world are villains and usurpers who need to be stopped!".
I mean Soul Society does change (somewhat) after though at a very steep cost during the TYBW. Plus this concept of death being needed is more based off Buddhist philosophy where suffering is necessary to achieve enlightenment. This was the whole concept behind the Aizen vs Ichigo relationship as antagonist/protagonist. Aizen catalyzed Ichigo's development because in order for him to progress he needed a rival that kept him moving forward towards "transcendence" instead of becoming complacent and content. Aizen's downfall however came from his own hubris where he was unable to comprehend someone actually surpassing him.

Yhwach is loosely based on Jesus while Aizen's storyline is based on the fall of Lucifer and how his pride saw him cast out from heaven. Kubo tends to borrow aspects from various religions which makes the world of Bleach really fascinating.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom