Fictional "Villains" Who Did Nothing Wrong Thread

[sir_fire]

I'll let this picture speak for itself.

 

[Ash's Boomstick]

I'll let this picture speak for itself.

Or you could actually tell people what it is, given that for most people that's just some random picture of a character they have no idea about from some cookie cutter anime.

 

[Captain X]

I think it's the bad guy from Made in Abyss. He conducted very unethical experiments on orphaned children which resulted in basically all of them turning into furries, with on in particular turning into a heavily deformed blob. So basically there's no argument of any merit that could be made to claim this guy is anything other than a horrible person other than the facetious "the Empire was right" type argument which is based entirely on a false premise that is intended to be funny because everyone knows they're evil.

 

[Lord Sovereign]

I think it's the bad guy from Made in Abyss. He conducted very unethical experiments on orphaned children which resulted in basically all of them turning into furries, with on in particular turning into a heavily deformed blob. So basically there's no argument of any merit that could be made to claim this guy is anything other than a horrible person other than the facetious "the Empire was right" type argument which is based entirely on a false premise that is intended to be funny because everyone knows they're evil.

Yep, that's Bondrewd. Not a very pleasant chap, who is ironically exceedingly polite, never loses his temper and can be strangely affectionate. He's not so much "evil", it's just that he's so unhinged that any and all ethics have gone out the window. He's literally oblivious to the fact he's doing anything wrong; it's all "science" to him. Granted, he operates within a eldritch hole in the ground which has probably driven him semi-insane, so that explains a lot.

And by the way only one of his hundreds of victims became a furry. The rest became deformed blobs in perpetual pain after a rather horrific mutation (they literally melted) via exposure to the eldritch energies of the "Abyss." And it was all in the name of exploring the aforementioned large eldritch hole in the ground.

Bondrewd is the sort of person the Ordo Hereticus executes without a second thought, and they'd be exactly right to do so.

Best part is, he's likely not even the most twisted person in his universe. Made in Abyss's world is the sort of thing Exterminatus fleets get deployed for.

 

[Aaron Fox]

Exactly. Why the fuck are they making robot gorillas? Why are the synths human and self aware? Why the fuck are they bothering with the Commonwealth? Just leave! They have the tech to just GTFO. Why bother?

Bethesda writing was really in full meltdown on that game.

No, the Institute has always been fluffed to be essentially Big MT without the cordon of Big MT. All the MAD SCIENCE! and lack of ethics but over a wider area and with more people used as experiments.

 

[Hlaalu Agent]

No, the Institute has always been fluffed to be essentially Big MT without the cordon of Big MT. All the MAD SCIENCE! and lack of ethics but over a wider area and with more people used as experiments.

And far less amusing, and also far less coherent.

 

[Aaron Fox]

And far less amusing, and also far less coherent.

Well, more like a different sort of amusing and similar levels of coherence when compared to Big MT.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

I skimmed through and didn't see it...

Magnus the Cyclops - Primarch of the Thousand Sons

Yup! Nothing wrong done by this guy!!!

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

Preston Garvey: Hey General another settlement needs your help.


My issue with Maxon is that he's way too dogmatic to the point of stupidity. The pragmatic choice for his faction would be to capture institute technology and repurpose it to help supplement them.

Then again as Mr House notes, the BOS is not known for collecting Autodocs but rather shiny suits of power armor. Their whole faction essentially while not evil, larps with their power armor as though they were the knights of yore. The Brotherhood's American Ancestor's would be horrified at how they lost their American heritage in favor of that of knights.

Fallout 4 ran into the same writing issues that skyrim fell into where the PC charecter isin't merly just a compentent person in his world but literally a self insert vessle in which the simulation can't possiblly function without. The factions aren't actually factions so much as basic quest chain locks hidden behind bare asthetics designed to give an illusion of a goal hints why even when you are supposidly "In charge" you're still left with a bunch of pre-generated fetch quest.

my dad basically has fallout 4 to a science to where he can bassically have max everything without having to "beat the game." it's a shame it took fall harbor before people actually got something resembling a role playing game and by then support was essentially done at that point.

 

[Hlaalu Agent]

I am going to say Arthas, since as a villain he literally had his soul removed and was controlled by the lich king his evil split personality The Jailer. And it is hard to say when he actually started losing control, well prior to his soul getting sucked out by Frostmourne, and when he was entirely in his right mind. Given he was driven to the breaking point, was traumatized by the suffering of his people and being forced to Old Yeller them, Jaina and Uther bailing on him when he needed them most, and possibly the Lich King whispering in his mind all the while Gothboi was yanking his chain... it is entirely uncertain. His last sane action I'd say was the Culling of Stratholme which wasn't wrong, it was the only sane response- one he was intentionally boxed into. And I think the final straw, everything after that was him being driven nutty than a fruit bat (his logic was erratic), the only wrong action that I believe he actually did was burn the ships and betray the mercenaries he wasn't culpable for, due to being mentally unsound. Anything after that was due to him literally being driven even more mad by Ner'Zhul (or whatever's) whispers and having his soul slurped out like it was a triple thick milkshake. Remember when he dies, he doesn't curse his luck or monologue or anything, but he asks the ghost of his father if his nightmare is over. I think Arthas is the posterboy of heroes or villains doing nothing wrong, because he never had a choice to begin with, his heart roasted fiercely and the game was rigged from the start.

 

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I am going to say Arthas, since as a villain he literally had his soul removed and was controlled by the lich king his evil split personality The Jailer.

Depends on the canon. IIRC the "Frostmourne stole Arthas' soul" line wasn't dropped until a quest in Wrath, and WoW's writing was filled with ergregious retcons (Night Elves joining the Alliance, Forsaken joining the Horde, Kael'thas turning evil, Draenei and Eredar being retconned into being the same race, etc) . And then you have the Jailer who was never hinted at once up until Legion and wasn't even written by the same author who wrote WC3 and Wrath.

Before Arthas ever even touched Frostmourne, he had already butchered a town, never even attempting to try to save those who hadn't been zombified yet. And then there were those mercenaries in Northrend he betrayed and murdered.

Jaina and Uther bailing on him when he needed them most

Helping him carry out a massacre wasn't the right thing to do. That being said, rather than running away and allowing Arthas to do it, they probably should have arrested him.

His last sane action I'd say was the Culling of Stratholme which wasn't wrong, it was the only sane response

Some people still could have been saved. Surely not everyone ate from the newly imported shipment of tainted grain. Some people could still have been eating their old bread, or might not have been eating bread at all (fruits and vegetables, beef/pork/chicken/fish, etc).

Also, we don't know what dosage is required to turn someone. It's possible some people ate enough grain to become sick, but didn't eat enough to turn. They could have possibly been cured by alchemists or priests. But we'll never know because Arthas decided to just go ahead and kill everyone.

And I think the final straw

I agree that he is rather obsessive throughout WC3, and the final cinematic of TFT depicts him as emotionally burdened, but he was still culpable for all of the acts he committed. It's rather infuriating that Shadowlands depicts Uther as being in the wrong for having opposed Arthas. "I failed you". Excuse me? Then again, WoW has had a pretty consistent track record of victim blaming and bending over backwards to let evil doers off the hook since the War Crimes novel.



If you want Warcraft "villains" who really did nothing wrong (if you include your definition of "villain" to include characters that are framed as in the wrong by the narrative, not necessarily fought as a boss ingame), then Genn Greymane and Tyrande Whisperwind are your folks.

Genn Greymane's kingdom was destroyed. His people were murdered and enslaved by a tyrant. His son was killed.

Tyrande's people were almost entirely wiped out on a whim to spite a dying elf, her husband nearly killed by the invaders, and her contingent of priestesses were almost all killed staying behind to hold the evacuation portal open.




Sylvanas has been unambiguously evil since Vanilla, raising people from the dead and forcing them to become her slave, or killing them again. Not to mention the horrific Unit 731 style live experimentation her alchemists conducted on captives in the Undercity. She sure likes to talk about obtaining freedom from the Scourge... only for her to do everything the Scourge did, but more! Even up to trying to shoot people trying to escape from her regime to another country! And then there were her four unprovoked invasions of four countries (Gilneas, Stormheim, Teldrassil, and Kul'Tiras). She is quite possibly the most evil character in the Warcraft setting (which says a lot when you have Gul'dan, Garrosh, Sargeras, and others floating around). People were predicting she was going to take center stage as a big bad since Cata. When Tyrande and Genn started being framed as "wrong" for hating Sylvanas (not to mention Grommash being let off the hook despite having committed a Draenei holocaust), people began suspecting she was going to get let off the hook. Given how much Blizzard has been framing Genn as unreasonably villainous, I wouldn't be surprised if come next expansion, Genn Greymane is depicted as cackling as he exterminates the Forsaken before being killed in a boss battle. "He was unable to let go of his hatred like Tyrande!"

Argh. Thinking about the backwards morality of the last four expansions gives me a migraine.

 

[Hlaalu Agent]

Depends on the canon. IIRC the "Frostmourne stole Arthas' soul" line wasn't dropped until a quest in Wrath, and WoW's writing was filled with ergregious retcons (Night Elves joining the Alliance, Forsaken joining the Horde, Kael'thas turning evil, Draenei and Eredar being retconned into being the same race, etc) . And then you have the Jailer who was never hinted at once up until Legion and wasn't even written by the same author who wrote WC3 and Wrath.

Before Arthas ever even touched Frostmourne, he had already butchered a town, never even attempting to try to save those who hadn't been zombified yet. And then there were those mercenaries in Northrend he betrayed and murdered.

Actually that was literally established in the first undead campaign mission that this was the case. It literally doesn't depend on the canon, it always has and always will be unless they pull a retcon.



Butchered a town? It was literally the only option, otherwise everyone was going to die and get up and kill, and then those they killed would get up and kill...

And again, he wasn't exactly sane when he was in Northerend, no man would be sane or entirely sane after enduring what he did.

Helping him carry out a massacre wasn't the right thing to do. That being said, rather than running away and allowing Arthas to do it, they probably should have arrested him.

It was the only right thing to do, otherwise everyone would turn undead and start killing.

Some people still could have been saved. Surely not everyone ate from the newly imported shipment of tainted grain. Some people could still have been eating their old bread, or might not have been eating bread at all (fruits and vegetables, beef/pork/chicken/fish, etc).

Well, it is unclear, but all of the people you kill in the mission proper are infected and there are clearly survivors helping you burn the body in that mission.

Also, we don't know what dosage is required to turn someone. It's possible some people ate enough grain to become sick, but didn't eat enough to turn. They could have possibly been cured by alchemists or priests. But we'll never know because Arthas decided to just go ahead and kill everyone.

Any amount is enough, it is literally a magic plague. Not even the light can cure it, the only time it was cured ended up with the afflicted simply dying. You are just spouting counterfactuals. They literally couldn't be helped, it has been consistent from WC3 right through WoW. They couldn't be saved, not even by actual embodiments of the light. Tl;dr it was the only correct decision and we do know they are unsavable, because nothing can cure the plague-unless you call a clean death a cure (which is then is them being culled with extra steps and maybe their soul being 100% saved).

I agree that he is rather obsessive throughout WC3, and the final cinematic of TFT depicts him as emotionally burdened, but he was still culpable for all of the acts he committed. It's rather infuriating that Shadowlands depicts Uther as being in the wrong for having opposed Arthas. "I failed you". Excuse me? Then again, WoW has had a pretty consistent track record of victim blaming and bending over backwards to let evil doers off the hook since the War Crimes novel.

Because he was wrong, he literally didn't lift a finger to help when Arthas needed him the most. And this has been clear since Warcraft 3, one of the few things that hasn't been retconned and stayed fairly consistent. The city needed to be culled, and the situation was deliberately set up to fuck with Arthas.

If you want Warcraft "villains" who really did nothing wrong (if you include your definition of "villain" to include characters that are framed as in the wrong by the narrative, not necessarily fought as a boss ingame), then Genn Greymane and Tyrande Whisperwind are your folks.

Genn Greymane's kingdom was destroyed. His people were murdered and enslaved by a tyrant. His son was killed.

They aren't villains. They are anti-heroic at worst.

Tyrande's people were almost entirely wiped out on a whim to spite a dying elf, her husband nearly killed by the invaders, and her contingent of priestesses were almost all killed staying behind to hold the evacuation portal open.

Yes, we all know Tyrande suffered because Slyvanas is a power sliding idiot.

Sylvanas has been unambiguously evil since Vanilla, raising people from the dead and forcing them to become her slave, or killing them again. Not to mention the horrific Unit 731 style live experimentation her alchemists conducted on captives in the Undercity. She sure likes to talk about obtaining freedom from the Scourge... only for her to do everything the Scourge did, but more! Even up to trying to shoot people trying to escape from her regime to another country! And then there were her four unprovoked invasions of four countries (Gilneas, Stormheim, Teldrassil, and Kul'Tiras). She is quite possibly the most evil character in the Warcraft setting (which says a lot when you have Gul'dan, Garrosh, Sargeras, and others floating around). People were predicting she was going to take center stage as a big bad since Cata. When Tyrande and Genn started being framed as "wrong" for hating Sylvanas (not to mention Grommash being let off the hook despite having committed a Draenei holocaust), people began suspecting she was going to get let off the hook. I wouldn't be surprised if come next expansion, Genn Greymane is depicted as cackling as he exterminates the Forsaken before being killed in a boss battle. "He was unable to let go of his hatred like Tyrande!"

Argh. Thinking about the backwards morality of the last four expansions give me a migraine.

Slyvanas was in control of her actions post-TFT and could have turned around at anytime and done things right. Also Garrosh got done dirty, he went from being honorable to being a genocidal maniac. And, yes the morality has been messed up, Arthas is not an example of that. And I still maintain he did nothing wrong, because he was being played like a fiddle and all of his wrong actions were done when he was under extreme duress (possibly having lost his sanity) and when Frostmourne slurped up his soul like Naruto slurps up ramen.

 

[posh-goofiness]

The Volturi did nothing wrong.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

Who?

 

[Husky_Khan]

Who?

I think it's the bad Vampire Council from Twilight.

Which is the very definition of wrong.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

Oh...the sparkly faeries who pretend to be vampires.

 

[Husky_Khan]

Oh...the sparkly faeries who pretend to be vampires.

I remember watching Twilight like years after it came out (it was okay) and I was legitimately surprised they actually sparkled.

I assumed all of the talk of then being sparkly was figurative, not that they literally sparkled...

And the way they built up to the sparkling reveal. I was braced for some sort of hideous Nosferatu mutant crap when they stepped in daylight and a theme of loving whats on the inside or some crap lol.

 

[What's the sitch?]

Care to elaborate how they aren't evil/did nothing wrong? (beyond some sort of blue/orange morality if you squint super super hard(that applies to other vampire settings as well)). At best I can see them being a lawful evil.

 

[Husky_Khan]

Care to elaborate how they aren't evil/did nothing wrong? (beyond some sort of blue/orange morality if you squint super super hard(that applies to other vampire settings as well)). I best I can see them being a lawful evil.

I remember fairly clearly in the movie they were introduced, they devoured an entire group of tourists, men, women and children, entire families, for a meal and that seemed pretty normal for them and they seemed to find the whole concept enjoyable to partake in.

Keeping in mind that the protagonist family just feeds off of animals or whatever.

So I feel that is pretty wrong. Maybe you can reason a 'Vampire' doesn't because they are vampires who view Humans as cattle and try and work in some metaphor, but using that POV can justify all manners of evil wrong behavior.