Five minutes of hate news

[mrttao]

The big thing we need to realize is that, Musk and Vivek both are calling for heavy use of H1B, which gets people to work for cheap, cheaper then Americans. Millions of Americans jobs are being taken by H1B Indians who are making 65k to 70k, instead of being paid to Americans who would make 100k.

Yea, it is obviously a very self serving position for them to take.

why not open an office in Mumbai and just hire them cheap there?

Because trump is talking about imposing tariffs on companies that ship jobs oversees. Thus forcing the jobs back to america.

Their solution is to mass import legal immigrants from india under H1B program from mumbai to america to become USA citizens and work for vastly less than they should be paid. Remaining within the new laws trump set while still avoiding paying people a fair wage

 

[Blasterbot]

8. mandatory physical excercise throughout entire education, starting from first grade.

this particularly. I want every high school graduate without a physical disability to be able to at least pass the fitness exams for the National Guard by graduation. having actual grades for gym beyond simple pass fail and making it matter should be a big deal. we have neglected our health for a long time.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Not going to lie, it's going to be sort of fun yet horrifying and bothersome to see where software development goes in the near future.
Gonna be great starting up Windows 12 where Punjabi music loudly blasts from your speakers, and inputting a google play giftcard is mandatory every week.
Plus the damned OS by itself is going to eat up 12 gigabytes at all times thanks to faulty if-else loops.

 

[Zachowon]

this particularly. I want every high school graduate without a physical disability to be able to at least pass the fitness exams for the National Guard by graduation. having actual grades for gym beyond simple pass fail and making it matter should be a big deal. we have neglected our health for a long time.

Learn proper deadlift techniques would be good.

Yea, it is obviously a very self serving position for them to take.

Because trump is talking about imposing tariffs on companies that ship jobs oversees. Thus forcing the jobs back to america.

Their solution is to mass import legal immigrants from india under H1B program from mumbai to america to become USA citizens and work for vastly less than they should be paid. Remaining within the new laws trump set while still avoiding paying people a fair wage

Yeah, it seems like Vivek amd Elon see Efficiency as employing as little Americans as possible because it's cheaper to hire Indians on H1B

 

[Rocinante]

Learn proper deadlift techniques would be good.

Yeah, it seems like Vivek amd Elon see Efficiency as employing as little Americans as possible because it's cheaper to hire Indians on H1B

Indians tend to work harder, longer hours, for cheaper, while also being more competent.

I say this as someone who has hired a few indians on Visas and also hires primarily Americans.

Americans need to step up their game and become more productive and more competent. No, I don't want 60 hours a week out of you. 50 during crunch time, usually 40. They'll whine about burn out when i am only asking them to do 40. 45 on some weeks... while Lokesh over there will do 50 without even being asked.

As is, I face a bunch of right out of college kids wanting 100k while not having any real experience. Why wouldn't I hire Tippusultan who can work fucking circles around you, and doesn't whine about EVERYTHING like a God damned baby, and he'll do it for 30k less?

So the problem is two-fold. Maybe we should limit the amount of Visas holders that we can import, but its not like we're hiring worse workers just to save money. They tend to be better workers, too. Americans need to become more competent. We are currently in a competency crisis, and it really shows when you're trying to hire for skilled positions.

So take all emotion out of it and ask yourself, if you're running a business, what do you choose?

A: whiney spoiled brat who complains about everything, isn't very good at the job, will take 6 months or longer before becoming competent if it even happens, for $100k, or,

B: highly competent individual who does not complain about anything, only needs a week or two of training, works circles around option A, will do longer hours, and will do it all for $70k.

Easy choice.

Boomers and millennials and our education system have utterly failed these newer generations. They're coming out of school with no real skills, but they can tell you about the 75 genders and institutional racism and whine and whine and cause HR nightmares like there's no tomorrow. Meanwile I can hire Harjeet for cheaper and actually get the job done.

 

[Blasterbot]

Learn proper deadlift techniques would be good.

Yeah, it seems like Vivek amd Elon see Efficiency as employing as little Americans as possible because it's cheaper to hire Indians on H1B

School doesn't even really teach how to work out without hurting yourself. It really is sad how much on the one hand they push Academia as the only path to pursue and on the other do everything they can to diminish the institutions.

on the legal migration I'm fine with it in principle. I don't hate legal migrants. With how fucked our colleges are they have ruined about 2 generations of people who've gone through them at this point and it isn't going to be a quick fix for them. bringing is skilled workers is going to be needed to cover that. at the same time if they are just here to earn money to send back home and the CEOs are just replacing Americans as a whole from the workforce that is going to lead to a very ugly situation with the backlash. people have been told their whole lives that they are a failure if they work certain jobs like the service industry. If you push them such that that really is the only place they can be gainfully employed? you aren't going to like how that goes.

 

[SoliFortissimi]

Vivek is clearly an Indian nationalist that's trying to boost his people, but Musk's support of the scheme indicates he isn't entirely wrong.

The main problem is that Indians are dangerously prone to creating their own patronage networks wherever and whenever they can. They will only "integrate" in superficial ways to rise through corporate and political ranks until they can start creating their own private fiefs where backwards Hindu traditions can be freely enforced.

And unlike the Arabs that keep trying to enforce Sharia in Europe, Indians can get rich enough to get powerful allies in local business and politics.

Something needs to be done about that, but without harming the tech industry.

 

[Blasterbot]

Vivek is a Civic Nationalist. that is likely to be a big part of the 2026 and 2028 argument on the republican side for MAGA. J.D's vs Vivek's big disagreement is simplified as J.D. believes that there is an american people. that there are families who have been here for damn near 400 years putting down roots. that we should prioritze the American people. Vivek on the other had believes that America is based on the constitution. that so long as one believes in the Ideals and are a citizen they are an American whether 1st gen or 12th gen doesn't matter. I think there are good points both make and they are friends. Hopefully this means they have a robust public debate on this.

 

[King Arts]

I thought it was obvious what my stance are. We are a pretty small community of like <10 guys.

But sure, I will name some actual things that can be done:

1. completely ban DEI everywhere. Particularly in colleges.
2. fire all woke teachers from every level of education
3. school voucher system. where parents have full control over which school their children attend, and the govt pays the school per student.
4. ban school unions
5. ban participation trophies
6. ban automatic advancing through the grades. if the student fail they MUST perform remedial classes until they actually pass.
7. regular tests to make sure students are actually learning to avoid situations where someone graduates highschool while being literally illterate.
8. mandatory physical excercise throughout entire education, starting from first grade.
9. provide tangible rewards for top academic performing students.
10. break the federal department of education into 50 chunks and split them between the states to handle as each state sees fit.

Some of these ideas make sense. But 10 is a bad idea.
The big reason US education sucks(a few reasons) but the big one is that it is split up into countless small divisions. All other wealthy nations have it more centralized. Leaving it to the states is a bad idea, as you'd just get 5 decent ones some good ones and a few bad ones. To make good policies you want to be able to implement them, dividing it like that makes it harder to implement.

 

[Blasterbot]

Some of these ideas make sense. But 10 is a bad idea.
The big reason US education sucks(a few reasons) but the big one is that it is split up into countless small divisions. All other wealthy nations have it more centralized. Leaving it to the states is a bad idea, as you'd just get 5 decent ones some good ones and a few bad ones. To make good policies you want to be able to implement them, dividing it like that makes it harder to implement.

nah. nationalization resulted in it being less accountable to local people. back when it was not nationalized we had better results. similar to how just throwing money at the problem doesn't solve things national standards doesn't help it the standard is for every kid to be able to name that America started in 1619 and there are 87 genders. at least if we devolve it we can see what works and what doesn't and iterate based on results.

 

[Rocinante]

Some of these ideas make sense. But 10 is a bad idea.
The big reason US education sucks(a few reasons) but the big one is that it is split up into countless small divisions. All other wealthy nations have it more centralized. Leaving it to the states is a bad idea, as you'd just get 5 decent ones some good ones and a few bad ones. To make good policies you want to be able to implement them, dividing it like that makes it harder to implement.

Having them separated by state is probably the only reason some of them are any good at all. Giving more control to the federal government, like the dept of education, would make all schools worse.

I mean seriously. The federal government is incompetent at all levels. Letting them have more control over education is just a recipe for a worse education system. But hey at least they'll all be able to recite all the genders and view everything as racist.

 

[Bassoe]

The future growth of the US economy and tech industry depends on it.

The whole point of having an economy and industry in the first place is to support the people. It can reward individuals for good conduct, in fact, it demonstrably should since that’s motivational, that if you work or invent something new you’ll get wealth from doing so, but if it starts replacing the people with foreign slave labor or robots, it becomes a threat.

John Arcto on Substack

Be distrustful of any commentator that does not accept the primacy of the culture war. I don't hate Sohrab Ahmari nearly as much as Richard Hanania these days, but he also makes the mistake of putting economics (left-wing, opposite of Hanania) above culture. The bottom line needs to be that...

substack.com

 

[Zachowon]

We can bring in people AFTER we can stabilize Americans in fields and fix the issues.
Starting them now just makes sure that when they become managers less and less Americans are hired until only immigrants are being hired...by immigrants

 

[Vyor]

Indians tend to work harder, longer hours, for cheaper, while also being more competent.

I say this as someone who has hired a few indians on Visas and also hires primarily Americans.

You are either a lying bastard or have only ever worked with the smallest possible minority of indians.

Their entire culture is something that encourages scamming, duplicity, and corruption. If China wasn't around, India would be the most corrupt nation on the planet and it wouldn't even be close. Russia is less corrupt than India is.

Just look at this shit. More than half the fucking country has paid a bribe at one point in their lives. Only 5% of the people that even have a degree from there actually earned their degree too:

Tech in Asia - Connecting Asia's startup ecosystem

www.techinasia.com

Fuck india.

 

[Rocinante]

You are either a lying bastard or have only ever worked with the smallest possible minority of indians.

Their entire culture is something that encourages scamming, duplicity, and corruption. If China wasn't around, India would be the most corrupt nation on the planet and it wouldn't even be close. Russia is less corrupt than India is.


Just look at this shit. More than half the fucking country has paid a bribe at one point in their lives. Only 5% of the people that even have a degree from there actually earned their degree too:

Tech in Asia - Connecting Asia's startup ecosystem

www.techinasia.com

Fuck india.

Cool story bro. I don't care how corrupt their country is.

I've been working with them here in the US for years. While some are shitty, for the most part they get more work done for 70% of the cost, and less complaining.

This doesn't just apply to Indians either. I employee an African man. He's a citizen but very African. And aside from being tough to understand with the accent, he works his ass off without complaining, too.

As for Americans, you see good work ethic in the Gen X crowd, and millenials aren't that bad. These are the demographics I prefer to hire. Competent hard workers who don't complain too much. More expensive than the Indians, but more of a cultural fit and also highly competent.

There is a problem with culture with the younger American crowd, that I don't really see in my foreigners, Gen x and millenials that I hire. Gen Z/A...it's nothing but incompetence, inability to communicate, Laziness and entitlement, without having done anything to earn it.

And I'm not saying importing cheap workers is a good thing. Businesses need to do it to be competitive right now, and to actually get hold of competent workers. But to solve the problem, we also need to address the competency crisis we are facing here at home. Just banning or limiting Visas on its own will only harm the economy and cause businesses to fail. It needs to be paired with other changes too.

 

[shangrila]

Man, there's huge amounts of cope in this thread pretending the vast majority of native Americans aren't absolutely retarded. Yes, many of the imports are overcredentialed and underskilled in real world applications. The same is at least as true for white men, and many times more true for white women and blacks. You want to complain about Indians forming nepotistic circles and self-dealing? At least they have some concern for actual competence doing that, while the white women that otherwise run HR are at least as nepotistic with zero concern for competence.

And that's not getting into the matter of true genius or near genius. That's a pure numbers game, which the O1 visa is utterly unable to actually solve, as you can only satisfy its requirements long after their most productive period. It's impossible to only take geniuses, the only way to identify geniuses early is to admit the top 10% and place them in stressful situations until the true genius rises to the top. Imagine trying to tell Elon Musk, who wouldn't have qualified for O1, that America doesn't need immigrants to shake up its stagnant industries.

Now, let me be clear here. The U.S. government is responsible solely to its existing citizens and their well being, no matter how retarded most of them have become after decades of leftists indoctrination. Thus the only thing the government should balance against imports driving down wages is the long term consequences of falling behind globally and thus hurting every citizen. That requires a clear eyed look at facts, not mindless cope or stereotypes.

 

[Vyor]

Man, there's huge amounts of cope in this thread pretending the vast majority of native Americans aren't absolutely retarded. Yes, many of the imports are overcredentialed and underskilled in real world applications. The same is at least as true for white men, and many times more true for white women and blacks. You want to complain about Indians forming nepotistic circles and self-dealing? At least they have some concern for actual competence doing that, while the white women that otherwise run HR are at least as nepotistic with zero concern for competence.

And that's not getting into the matter of true genius or near genius. That's a pure numbers game, which the O1 visa is utterly unable to actually solve, as you can only satisfy its requirements long after their most productive period. It's impossible to only take geniuses, the only way to identify geniuses early is to admit the top 10% and place them in stressful situations until the true genius rises to the top. Imagine trying to tell Elon Musk, who wouldn't have qualified for O1, that America doesn't need immigrants to shake up its stagnant industries.

It doesn't need it. India is an evil nation filled with evil people, just like China. Fuck em both, both are better off being piles of radioactive slag.

 

[shangrila]

It doesn't need it. India is an evil nation filled with evil people, just like China. Fuck em both, both are better off being piles of radioactive slag.

And this would be that mindless cope and stereotype that I was talking about. Thanks for illustrating.

 

[SoliFortissimi]

I think I have enough of a reputation as a pro-immigration, egalitarian, pro-economy guy to say that while Indian workers are definitely a boon for the tech industry, their nepotism is a massive threat. So is their inability to leave their more barbaric traditions behind.

Bring on more workers, but keep an eye on them just as you would with Chinese workers. Productivity =/= reliability.

 

[shangrila]

Nepotism is a massive threat, period. That must be dealt with in general. Indians are by no means the worst. White women and Jews are worse, not only in extent, but that much of theirs is politically motivated instead of purely in self-interest.

We are also at a dangerous tipping point in a number of technologies. I would be more sympathetic in general to people valuing wages over competitiveness if I don't strongly suspect that losing the AI and Space wars now would be the boot in the face of humanity forever.

Just saying, it ain't Indians creaming themselves over AI run censorship and surveillance. It's white Europeans. And Australians. And Bill Gates and John Kerry, equally white.