willdelve4beer
Well-known member
I am a sociopath, clinically diagnosed back in '97, and have never made the slightest effort to disguise that fact. That you find that offputting is, at most, mildly amusing to me.
Hamas Launches Offensive Against Southern Israel
- Thread starter Marduk
- Start date
I am a sociopath, clinically diagnosed back in '97, and have never made the slightest effort to disguise that fact. That you find that offputting is, at most, mildly amusing to me.
This is true. And would be all the more reason for them to turn those weapons on other nations if Israel is going to fall. They’ve admitted as much as well. If they go they take as much of everything else with them that they can.
That includes neutral nations as well. And that is where the issue lies. If Israel wants to nuke its enemies when faced with annihilation, then that’s on them and they’re welcomed to do it. Attacking nations whose only crime is not wanting to get drawn into a war that’s not their own is insanity and indefensible.
Then you’ll have no problem finding evidence that those other nations have such plans. And even if they do, that doesn’t make it okay for them to do it either.
And the suffering of the Jewish people in the past, while unfortunate and tragic, does not give them licenses to do whatever they want in the here and now. Plus ‘sins of the father’ nonsense is unacceptable.
And the fact you are okay with this and take some apparent measure of pride in it saddens me and I pity you.
Terthna
Professional Lurker
Except the reason for this apparent hypocrisy is rooted in the fact that the latter, unlike the former, hasn't expressed any desire to use said nukes on us.
Uh, yes they have. They’ve just been more oblique about it.
Samson Option - Wikipedia
Don’t know if you’ve noticed but the USA is part of the world too. And even if the US isn’t targeted, that doesn’t make Israel threatening to nuke Europe for not wanting to fight for them any better.
Edit; grammar
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King Arts
Well-known member
Pulling the sociopath thing doesn’t make you cool or whatever. Also it’s irrelevant because even to sociopaths your plan is idiotic. First off if you are a sociopath why do you care about if the nation is occupied? Occupation would be better for you probably than death or post apocalypse, or being genocided by other nations in revenge. Like if you were dying of cancer would you blow up the world since if you are dead it doesn’t matter is that what you mean by sociopathic you only care about yourself?
If you care about a nation again what will happen to the survivors of a people that nukes neutrals will not be pretty.
I wasn't replying to your post, but nice to see you will pretend I was in order to concern troll at me again.
Iran isn't 'semetic', it's Persian; that you don't understand the difference shows how little you know about the region and it's history.
My support for Israel is about supporting people who I have known IRL who were Jewish and did a stint in the IDF before coming to the US, as well as understanding anti-Zionism is antisemitism, and not looking at relations with Israel through a 'military ally' lens.
It's not hypocrisy when it's plain inaccurate; describing Iran as a 'semitic' nation is just wrong, they're Persians.
Though yes, you are correct, Israel has never threatened the US with nukes, Iran has done so repeatedly, and likes to work with North Korea on rocket shit.
King Arts
Well-known member
When did Iraq or other Arab nations that were said to be going for nukes say they want to nuke us.
Oh please. You where attacking a strawman of the argument that @King Arts and myself have been making. Stop playing dumb.
willdelve4beer
Well-known member
It would be pretty stupid not to be "okay" with something that I have no ability or reason to change. My brain chemistry is not something I'm inclined to let some half-educated quack fiddle with to make some random strangers who provide no utility to me, more comfortable. But I'll happily take the "pity", any advantage is useful in some circumstance.
King Arts
Well-known member
That Zeno was talking about Iraq. Remember your lord and savior neocon Bush who said Iraq had WMDs.
I wasn't replying to you either.
However, if you want to white-knight for that other user, fine, I'll take a chunk out of both your hides for the bullshit you two are trying to spread in the wake of Hamas's attack and giving them rhetorical cover for what they've done.
As Netanyahu said, anyone who is a member of Hamas is a dead man, and this is the worst thing to happen to the Jews since the Holocaust.
The fact that the Sampson Option exists is because the west and nations going back to antiquity have repeatedly tried to kill off Jews, just for being Jews.
If Israel falls, where are Jews supposed to go to feel safe ever again? Because if the west is at a point we've let Israel get to the brink of destruction, then the west has engaged in Holocaust by proxy and will deserve a nuke or two.
Terthna
Professional Lurker
Threatening to take everyone else down with you, if you do go down, is not the same thing as threatening to attack someone outright.Uh, yes they have. They’ve just been more oblique about it.
Samson Option - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
And as I said, they’re being oblique about it. Because they’re smart enough not to come out and say the quiet part out loud, so to speak.
SoliFortissimi
Well-known member
Narcissism is one of the major symptoms.
Back on topic, I'm not worried about Samson. Israelis aren't that ruthless. If they were, this recent massacre wouldn't have happened.
No, your where replying to @Navarro, and the both of you were talking about the arguments being made by @King Arts and myself. So your were talking about our perspective. Stop playing innocent and dumb, no one is falling for it.
Bring it on.
And given what monsters Hamas seem to be, they certainly deserve it.
And explain to me why that makes this okay. Seriously, explain this to me.
Why should us Westerners be held to blame for stuff our ancestors did that we have no control over?
Or is wanting to stay out of a war between Israel and its neighbors ‘anti-semitism’ now?
Don’t know. Probably in all those nations not in the Middle East that don’t explicitly hate their guts.
Why is Israel and it’s safety the West’s responsibility? As far as I know, the West hasn’t signed a binding and unbreakable treaty that pledges us to defend Israel.
If anything, given how previous Western interference has made things more difficult for Israel, it’s all the more reason we should stay out of it.
I’m not so sure.
To play Devil’s advocate here: what does Israel lose from this?
For a comparative handful of lives, many from foreign nations, Israel gets massive advantages. Any sympathy towards Palestine from within their nation is gone. Same goes for most other nations towards Palestine.
In exchange for a bloody nose and temporary embarrassment, Israel get a 9/11 -type rallying point for their people and sympathetic Western powers and peoples. Those same foreign politicians will send Israel money, weapons, aid and maybe even troops to fight in the war for Israel.
Israel also gets to finally and possibly definitely deal with issues that have been plaguing them for decades. Issues that many Western governments held them back on out of a desire, misplaced it might have been, to have peace and co existence between Israel and Palestine.
Now Israel gets let off ‘the leash’ so to speak. As Hamas has given them plenty of justification*. And anyone -in or out of Israel- who questions any of this gets made to look bad.
Even if Israel or various people haven’t lied about anything, this conflict stands ready to give Israel pretty much everything they ‘want’ in regards to Gaza and the like. At least that’s my understanding for this hypothetical.
So even if Israel didn’t somehow allow everything to happen, they are certainly playing their cards very well.
As I said this is a hypothetical look at the situation Israel is in and at current events. Obviously I don’t know one way or another for sure about what’s really going on. So I can hardly accuse either nation of anything definitely.
*assuming that things like the water pipes mentioned above are true. There is a reason why it is said truth is the first casualty in war. And it’s not as if Israel hasn’t (allegedly) lied about stuff in the past. (See below-note that the video came out 5 months ago).
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Navarro
Well-known member
Dear God, this is ridiculous on the level of "Bush did 9/11". Israel got complacent, assumed that Hamas was moderating and their new high tech electronic fence coupled with Iron Dome could easily prevent any kind of Hamas attack. The main security threat was assumed to be the constant tension around the West Bank settlements, and any intel indicating Hamas was planning an attack got ignored.
At the time of the attack, a religious holiday was happening as well so they were extra caught off guard.
At the time of the attack, a religious holiday was happening as well so they were extra caught off guard.
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Your mistake here is that you are trying to think through this situation as if Hamas was controlled by rational political actors, rather than a the closest real case of an actual death cult, be it their own own or their enemies. As far as they are concerned, the idea of martyrdom is as valuable as death of their enemies, and suddenly it all makes sense.
Just listen to them:
Of course Bush didn’t do 9/11.
The CIA and the military-industrial complex, on the other hand… well, I wouldn’t entirely rule them out.
And if that’s the case, fine. I was giving a hypothetical.
But you’ve got to admit that this plays into Israel’s hands rather well.
The whole ‘it’s a religious festival so they were caught off guard’ thing is part of what makes me raise an eyebrow.
We know that Hamas and other terrorist groups like to strike during such times. They’ve done it before. So the fact that this somehow worked is kind of surprising for me.
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