China Hong Kong/China Thread

Hlaalu Agent said:
@Punch Card Girl I think that @Terthna makes a good point, when the nation betrays its citizens or rather those in charge do. What is or becomes the duty of the citizen? If it goes too far, I do think one duty rises above the rest, the duty of revolution, of restoration to the proper (what ever that might be) constitutional order.
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I can agree with that; the problem is twofold however. Not only do the vast majority of revolutions end with people in power that make things far worse than before, but you also have to worry about the fact that, no matter what, even a revolution that manages to fix everything is nothing more than a patch job at best. In but a few generations, the corruption will resurface, and things soon will be just as bad as they were; because it is in man's nature to be selfish and lazy, and it is that nature which is at the root of the problem.
 
Well... now the Hong Kongers are presented with three choices.

Submit, and be relegated as a third-class citizen and suffer under the CCP's thumbs as they are brutalized into subservience/acceptance.

Flee into another country and leave their livelihood behind.

Or fight back for a chance for freedom.
 
Hlaalu Agent said:
@Punch Card Girl I think that @Terthna makes a good point, when the nation betrays its citizens or rather those in charge do. What is or becomes the duty of the citizen? If it goes too far, I do think one duty rises above the rest, the duty of revolution, of restoration to the proper (what ever that might be) constitutional order.
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That’s still something you owe your nation, actually. It’s perfectly congruent with what I said. A nation isn’t a constitution or a government or a party, it’s curly golden flax in the morning dawn, row after row of wheat in the Palouse, snow glistening on the Bitterroots in winter, a horse buggy race in old New York with brown soil trod by an apple orchard, a man and his son starting up their lobstering boat in Boothbay Harbour, ME at 0300 in the morning, a group of friends crammed together at the diner in Vincennes Indiana for eggs and coffee, the Blue Ridge Mountains in fall, the Zuni Pueblo when the desert blossoms after rain, the rich black soil of the Mississippi Delta region where people now are free, the liberty the Haudenosaunee gave us, the maize we grind into johnnycakes and the feeling of tramping in the woods with shotgun in hand in grouse season. It’s being active in Town Meeting, running for local office, quoting Robert’s Rules of Order, the freedom to drive anywhere and fix your own car, the willingness to pull up roots and look for work elsewhere, to innovate, to wander off in the woods until you find yourself, or just become a mountain man.

That’s what you owe death to, not a government, not a party, not a constitution. You may still find it even when those things are dead. She is alive, and it’s not just America, every country is so.
 
MementoMori said:
Well... now the Hong Kongers are presented with three choices.

Submit, and be relegated as a third-class citizen and suffer under the CCP's thumbs as they are brutalized into subservience/acceptance.

Flee into another country and leave their livelihood behind.

Or fight back for a chance for freedom.
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I agree in the broad sense. The people of Hong Kong as a whole though, are outgunned and outnumbered. One hopes they can bloody the PLA/PAP.

In the long run, it seems though that the PRC will wind up spanking the proverbial goose with an axe. Any crackdown with troops from the mainland will be compared to Tianamen. And those comparisons will not be good.

Capital will flee HK, so will foreign companies as the sanctions and condemnations roll in. Trump's tarriffs won't look so stupid anymore. Hell, he will be a visionary. And the world will link economic sanctions to human rights. We can afford to, cheap labor sources in Korea, Vietnam and elsewhere in Asia will line up to take advantage of China's misfortune.

And what should we do? What we have been doing. That, and arm Taiwan to the hilt. Get Japan on board, get South Korea on board. Get Vietnam and, yes, the rest of Asia to contain China. That is what it will take. It will be a long and very cold war. But we won the last one, and we can win this one.

But we need a committment to do so. China is about to give us a reason in her economic and political suicide note. All over her paranoid need to preserve a state that has done little but murder millions of her own citizens.

My fear is, she may make the same calculus Japan did in 1941. We need to be prepared for that. And were China to act in Hong Kong? I think we could find the political will to do just that.
 
Punch Card Girl said:
That’s still something you owe your nation, actually. It’s perfectly congruent with what I said. A nation isn’t a constitution or a government or a party, it’s curly golden flax in the morning dawn, row after row of wheat in the Palouse, snow glistening on the Bitterroots in winter, a horse buggy race in old New York with brown soil trod by an apple orchard, a man and his son starting up their lobstering boat in Boothbay Harbour, ME at 0300 in the morning, a group of friends crammed together at the diner in Vincennes Indiana for eggs and coffee, the Blue Ridge Mountains in fall, the Zuni Pueblo when the desert blossoms after rain, the rich black soil of the Mississippi Delta region where people now are free, the liberty the Haudenosaunee gave us, the maize we grind into johnnycakes and the feeling of tramping in the woods with shotgun in hand in grouse season. It’s being active in Town Meeting, running for local office, quoting Robert’s Rules of Order, the freedom to drive anywhere and fix your own car, the willingness to pull up roots and look for work elsewhere, to innovate, to wander off in the woods until you find yourself, or just become a mountain man.

That’s what you owe death to, not a government, not a party, not a constitution. You may still find it even when those things are dead. She is alive, and it’s not just America, every country is so.
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No offense, but I get the impression that you romanticize the idea of a nation far more than is healthy.
 
I categorically refuse to lay down my life for a nation that spies on me, that taps my phones and monitors my internet, that lies to me and steals my freedoms.
 
Terthna said:
No offense, but I get the impression that you romanticize the idea of a nation far more than is healthy.
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From cynicism and doubt stem khear. Columbia is still my Earthly Mother, to whom I owe all Earthly Worship. To God—the spiritual, to country—the worldly.

I do not expect others to follow that in this modern day, but I do.
 
@Captain X Yeah but Venezuela is a South American country that the majority of the people doesn't really know about (heck they probably thought that it was in Africa or something). But this is Hong Kong, everybody knows about Hong Kong.

And not only that, Venezuela basically imploded on itself (socialism not even once), Hong Kong would be a very public act of genocide (if it comes to that).
 
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Lanmandragon said:
The truth is that the refugee treaty causes more issues than it solves. By passing it and adhering to it. We've created a pressure valve which allows shitty governments. To export thier "troublemakers" from reaching a critical mass. That would enact both social and political changes.
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That sorta sounds like the Altmer from Elder Scrolls, closest thing to a way to get rid of dissidents or poliical factions for them was exile so as to avoid social change as said exiles made their own nations and communities

The more populated and outright conquered by others those places were, the more The Altmer had to eventually deal with people who had a problem with their society and couldn’t exactly just leave En Masse
 
The Boot is annoyed. While this predates the post that instigated a warning, it was only now brought to Staff's attention. The Boot stated that this person was on thin ice for their conspiracy theories, and this shows a pattern of trolling.
Deleted member 1 said:
I'm saying that being a cynic and a doubter toward the goodness of your country is a way to harden your heart, make you suspicious toward your neighbours and love them less, and ultimately build separation between yourself and God.
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goodnight sweet sock ;_;
 
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