Oh, I get it was a separate case. I still want him prosecuted regardless though.
United States If you're not a Citizen, the Constitution Stops at the Border
Lightershoulders
Just another, seeking.
The rock didn't even come close to him, and it was one rock.
The kid was stupid, but he didn't have it coming by any measure let alone being instantly headshot.
If someone attacks a LEO of any stripe, even if the attack is unsuccessful, they shouldn't be surprised if they get ventilated.
think of it this way would you willingly pick a fight with a guy with a gun who was just doing his job?
That's why we have Darwin Awards.
SergeantBrother
Notorious Member
We really need to look at this not just as an individual event, but for the precedent that it sets. We have enough problems controlling our borders as it is, especially with huge portions of the government (including local governments) working to undermine our laws. If border control agents can be sued for "violating the Constitutional rights" of non-citizens who are trying to invade our nation, who are in fact committing assault against our border control agents, then we might as well give up on having borders or a nation at all.
The central question here is:
What in the seven bloody hells is a 15 year old doing on the border, unsupervised, causing an altercation with border patrol agents?
Don't kids have any sane ways to entertain themselves anymore? Or homework perhaps?
Oh we know what it is. Either Darwin award worthy stupidity, or just as likely, Darwin award worthy stupidity combined with an "allowance" from local or not so local organized crime. Yes, organized crime, especially in less orderly places that have "bleeding heart" legal policies, knows damn well that "youths" can do a lot of work for them, and risk much less in legal terms than an adult criminal doing these things would. Starting with scouting, through causing a distraction to the agents so that smugglers can get through, and ending with proper smuggling.
Yeah, right, just totally accidentally and innocently "playing" right on the border line, out of all places in Mexico...
What in the seven bloody hells is a 15 year old doing on the border, unsupervised, causing an altercation with border patrol agents?
Don't kids have any sane ways to entertain themselves anymore? Or homework perhaps?
Oh we know what it is. Either Darwin award worthy stupidity, or just as likely, Darwin award worthy stupidity combined with an "allowance" from local or not so local organized crime. Yes, organized crime, especially in less orderly places that have "bleeding heart" legal policies, knows damn well that "youths" can do a lot of work for them, and risk much less in legal terms than an adult criminal doing these things would. Starting with scouting, through causing a distraction to the agents so that smugglers can get through, and ending with proper smuggling.
This section on the CNN link nonetheless makes the second option far more likely than it would have been otherwise. How many of you peeps here "had a history of involvement with human smuggling and was on a list of repeat juvenile offenders" by the age of 15?
Yeah, right, just totally accidentally and innocently "playing" right on the border line, out of all places in Mexico...
Lightershoulders
Just another, seeking.
First, it was a 15 year old kid who probably didn't understand english.
You would correct if it was an adult, but a child should not be held to that same standard.
Unless you are implying that a 7 year old for example with a knife 25 yards away should be instantly shot by officers without giving any reasonable orders?
Regardless, there are degrees of response that LEO of every stripe are typically taught to follow.
Taking your gun out before the suspect's even pick up a rock isn't among those.
As a fifteen year old drug addict? Maybe.
Yeah, people who are paid by illegals to get illegals into our country are human smugglers by definition.
It's not any evidence of something far darker like sex trafficking or slave trade. Not innocent by far, but not worthy of killing.
And I know several people who were involved with Juvenile offenses that aren't worthy of being killed like this.
That still doesn't make it right to kill people, and LEO's definition of 'attack' encompass literally anything. There's a reason resisting arrest is a joke of a crime.
The kid here was already involved in human trafficking operations and was a repeat offender already. He was not innocent in the least and was likely acting on orders from a cartel or other bit of organized crime.
LEO's definition of 'attack' does NOT encompass 'anything', and you damn well know that. A rock can still kill or injure a LEO if they get hit in a bad spot.
Also, a general rule of thumb with LEO's is 'do what they fucking tell you to do, when they tell you to do it, and if they are in the wrong, take their ass's to court later'. Being combative with LEOs in the field is grade A dumbassery, which is why this fool earned a Darwin Award.
Lightershoulders
Just another, seeking.
Not trafficking.
Smuggling is when you are paid by the people moving.
Trafficking is slave trade.
And you don't know if he was a repeat offender, just that he has a record.
And if he was working for the cartels, he would have been packing more than a rock he found on the ground.
Worthy? No. Shocking, surprising or outrageous? Neither. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes kind of situation. Kid shouldn't have been where he was, doing what he was (in reality or as claimed), and it's not reasonable to expect border patrol agents to wonder in such heated situations whether the suspect is 15 or 18, or whether the criminal cross-border operation he's taking part in is sex trafficking or "just" ordinary human smuggling, as if that was easy to tell. On many borders in the world people get shot at for less than what he did. A border is not a place to fuck around like this, and if people do tempt fate like this, shit happens, and making it not happen would have far worse, wide reaching consequences.
Um, but it can? Seriously, LEO's aren't some unified block of only morally upright people. They have a variety of definitions of attack. Bad LEO's have a definition of attack including everything, and blindly believing what the government or its agents say is stupid.
But it wasn't anywhere near him. And the LEO also lied about how many rocks were thrown (claiming a barrage according to NPR). He then shot a kid. The only defense he legally had was the jurisdictional question.
And whether the kid was stupid is irrelevant to the fact that what the BP agent did was obviously morally wrong. He should be criminally punished for murder.
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Lightershoulders
Just another, seeking.
Yes it absolutely is outrageous.
It doesn't matter if they are mexican, the unnecessary killing of a child should always be outrageous.
Heated?
What damn heat?
He pulled his gun instantly, one of the kids instantly complied and got on the ground and the either two hid behind a pillar.
He would have a gun if it was sex trafficking.
We hold ourselves to a higher standard as Americans.
Like what?
We have zero evidence they were actually doing anything besides illegal crossing.
Sorry mate, but there was a rock. Right before the gunshot you can make out a single rock being thrown way off course.
Sorta like the kid rolled a nat 1 on accuracy and the cop rolled a nat 20.
Oh, I missed that. I'll edit what I said.
Not child. Teenager old enough to be a soldier (regardless of morality or legality of it) in some different times and places. If you want to be outraged, at least be outraged at the parents who seem not very interested in their kid's whereabouts or growing rap sheet for years, but now, when their kid got shot in process of adding another entry to it, they are interested in... suing for damages. Yes, that's it, money. In all fairness, Mexico should be charging them with child neglect, alongside any parents of underage cartel recruits.
Rocks being thrown, lots of unknown people around wtf knows what for...
Chaotic situation where an attack of any form can come from any direction at any moment.
Note that he didn't have a whole squad with him covering his back.
How are you so sure, and how was the agent supposed to know he doesn't have a gun?
So what? Most of the witnesses probably made themselves scarce, and we're left with a shitty phone video. We'll never know for sure what happened, and we know that the agent knew even less.
Lightershoulders
Just another, seeking.
Hahahahahaha...
Not legally speaking. That wouldn't fly if you, a grown ass man, were to get into a fist fight with a fifteen year old girl.
Change the gender into a 15 year old boy and have the boy start the fight and it totally would legally fly. And I have seen those kinds of fights go down when I lived in the Barrio, the ghetto and trailer parks. You get guys who are full of themselves and start some thing with older people and some times they get pounded in the ground for their trouble.
Lightershoulders
Just another, seeking.
I'm going to have to see proof of this. The only time I have ever heard of a kid being charged as an adult was involving homicide and not throwing a fucking rock that didn't even come near the cop already aiming at his head and not the chest as he was trained.