Modern Civilizations: Comparing the USA with Japan

[Scottty]

Someone posted this (in a discord discussion) and was okay with my reposting it:

From everything I've seen, Japan is an incredible country. They don't have any of these problems that are extremely common in the U.S.:

• Rampant crime in cities, forcing families to retreat into the suburbs where car-centric lifestyles trap kids in the house and contribute to obesity, etc.
• Brutal prison system does little to reduce recidivism, but many people who go inside (whether justly or not) have to join a gang to avoid rape and violence.
• Short hospital stays generate giant bills for the uninsured; medical bankruptcy very common.
• Incredibly high college costs mean lifelong debt for those without rich parents.
• In major cities, the streets are dirty and full of trash because no one gives a shit.
• Huge homeless population; they commit crimes and threaten others with violence, and are in danger of violence themselves.
• Interacting with the government is maddening, especially if you're a small business. No one on the government side gives a shit. You generally have to hire lawyers to advise you on how to comply with government policy, while government employees are more interested in "nailing you" than helping you get into compliance.

.. it's like Japan is the answer to the question "What if we had a society where people cared about themselves, and cared about each other?" I know it's not perfect, but in the U.S. we tell ourselves that the above problems are just an unavoidable fact of life. But they're not, and they don't exist over there.


Japan has the lowest obesity rate in the world (if you exclude the countries where they don't have any food), and the highest life expectancy in the world. They have the lowest rate of imprisonment in the world, and simultaneously the lowest rate of crime (both violent and otherwise) in the world. It's just incredible to me.


So - not my words here, someone else's.
Is the USA really that bad?

 

[Largo]

I love Japan, have family there, speak the language, and the semester I spent actually living there was arguably the most fun I've ever had.

And I would never in a thousand years want to live there. I don't want to bother with a full refutation, but I'm just going to point out that the median Japanese salary is like 30% smaller than the US.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

I love Japan, have family there, speak the language, and the semester I spent actually living there was arguably the most fun I've ever had.

And I would never in a thousand years want to live there. I don't want to bother with a full refutation, but I'm just going to point out that the median Japanese salary is like 30% smaller than the US.

When you get the chance, I'm curious as to what makes Japan a place you wouldn't want to live. I've never lived or even vacationed there.

 

[Captain X]

Their justice system is fucked up (they assume guilt), and their medical system isn't exactly the best either. Also, still plenty of organized crime, as well as other issues, like the children of rich people going around beating up homeless people, and generally fucking around with "the poors." Japan has its own issues. It might seem like it's better than the US, but really it's a case of thinking that the grass is greener on the other side of the fence.

 

[Scottty]

Their justice system is fucked up (they assume guilt), and their medical system isn't exactly the best either. Also, still plenty of organized crime, as well as other issues, like the children of rich people going around beating up homeless people, and generally fucking around with "the poors." Japan has its own issues. It might seem like it's better than the US, but really it's a case of thinking that the grass is greener on the other side of the fence.

Japan not having some of the USA's horrible problems is simply due to Japan not being the USA. I think the person I quoted was making the point that America's problems are not some inevitable thing for a modern urbanized civilization, "it does not have to be this way" basically.

Anyone have an opinion on why the US gov seems to be so hostile to small businesses? Is that mainly a big "blue" city thing?

 

[Captain X]

Japan not having some of the USA's horrible problems is simply due to Japan not being the USA. I think the person I quoted was making the point that America's problems are not some inevitable thing for a modern urbanized civilization, "it does not have to be this way" basically.

Anyone have an opinion on why the US gov seems to be so hostile to small businesses? Is that mainly a big "blue" city thing?

Because the people in charge do not want there to be a middle class.

 

[SoliFortissimi]

Japan is a geriatric country in an eternal recession where increasing shares of young men have become porn addicted NEETs.

They're not something to emulate.

 

[ATP]

Japan not having some of the USA's horrible problems is simply due to Japan not being the USA. I think the person I quoted was making the point that America's problems are not some inevitable thing for a modern urbanized civilization, "it does not have to be this way" basically.

Anyone have an opinion on why the US gov seems to be so hostile to small businesses? Is that mainly a big "blue" city thing?

I only read books about both Japan and USA - but,i think that USA problems are result of abadonning their own western civilization and becoming socialists,which include destroing small cusiness.

When Japan is still faitfull to their own civilization./althought they took many things from others/

That is,i think,all.

P.S i once read,that Japan as only country in world developed big orderly cities with literate population before Steam age,forget author and title,as usual.
Maybe that is why they do not fall?

 

[gral]

When Japan is still faitfull to their own civilization./althought they took many things from others/

Not exactly, as I understand it; they go through the forms, but they don't really believe in it. They do it because it's the way it's always been done, or because it's how they keep Japanese society together.

Japanese culture hasn't been as badly wounded as Korean one, or mainland Chinese, but it may be in terminal decline.

 

[Marduk]

Someone posted this (in a discord discussion) and was okay with my reposting it:

From everything I've seen, Japan is an incredible country. They don't have any of these problems that are extremely common in the U.S.:

• Rampant crime in cities, forcing families to retreat into the suburbs where car-centric lifestyles trap kids in the house and contribute to obesity, etc.

Not cars, not crime, culture. Both food culture and general. In Japan, fat shaming is not a microaggression, fat shaming is a universal public policy. Businesses get actually punished for having fat employees. In America, they get punished for discriminating against fat employees.

• Brutal prison system does little to reduce recidivism, but many people who go inside (whether justly or not) have to join a gang to avoid rape and violence.

Japanese prison system is bad in a better way, for one many criminals would rather choose to be in US one, which is why Japanese is better.

• Short hospital stays generate giant bills for the uninsured; medical bankruptcy very common.

Not private vs public healthcare again. Public substitutes queue throttling for financial throttling, that's it, also the fatness problem not present in Japan generates demand and in turn raises market costs.

• Incredibly high college costs mean lifelong debt for those without rich parents.

Diversity politics. It is established in much research that people are more willing to be altruistic towards those like them, it's not a viable option in a multicultural, diverse country, nevermind that tribal politics would be inserted even more into who gets to go to what college for state money, and in effect Democrat's client groups would be favored at everyone else's cost even more.

• In major cities, the streets are dirty and full of trash because no one gives a shit.

As above. Part and parcel of living in multiculturalism. You can't make those assholes on the other block stop littering, you surely don't want to clean for them, and police would be called racist for intervening, so what do?

• Huge homeless population; they commit crimes and threaten others with violence, and are in danger of violence themselves.

As above, plus drugs, light handed police, and culture of no one having license to crack down on minor troublemakers because "it's their customs and they can do whatever they want".

• Interacting with the government is maddening, especially if you're a small business. No one on the government side gives a shit. You generally have to hire lawyers to advise you on how to comply with government policy, while government employees are more interested in "nailing you" than helping you get into compliance.

Oh that one is shared with Japan, their bureaucracy is insane and backwards technologically, oh the irony. They still use fax machines.

.. it's like Japan is the answer to the question "What if we had a society where people cared about themselves, and cared about each other?" I know it's not perfect, but in the U.S. we tell ourselves that the above problems are just an unavoidable fact of life. But they're not, and they don't exist over there.

Most of that is pretty much USA minus diversity effects and with less individualism too.

Japan has the lowest obesity rate in the world (if you exclude the countries where they don't have any food), and the highest life expectancy in the world. They have the lowest rate of imprisonment in the world, and simultaneously the lowest rate of crime (both violent and otherwise) in the world. It's just incredible to me.

The obesity rate is an East Asia thing (see: Thailand, Vietnam), mostly culture, and in turn it massively improves public health at no cost at all. There is simply no medical technology that any amount of healthcare funding can buy to make people with BMI of 40 live as long as healthily as people with BMI of 20, and so it has to show in statistics.

As for crime rates, many countries in Europe, even the poorer but less diverse ones, are in the same ballpark as Japan.

So - not my words here, someone else's.
Is the USA really that bad?

 

[DarthOne]

Japan is a geriatric country in an eternal recession where increasing shares of young men have become porn addicted NEETs.

They're not something to emulate.

And that’s different from the Western world now, how exactly?

 

[ATP]

Not exactly, as I understand it; they go through the forms, but they don't really believe in it. They do it because it's the way it's always been done, or because it's how they keep Japanese society together.

Japanese culture hasn't been as badly wounded as Korean one, or mainland Chinese, but it may be in terminal decline.

It could be true.I read in few books written by people who lived there,then every japaneese go every year to shinto shrine,buddhist shrine,and meet together on Christmas - but only 10% belive in anything.

But,maybe keeping forms without faith saved them till our times.

 

[Scottty]

 

[Scottty]

As above. Part and parcel of living in multiculturalism.

Bingo.

 

[SoliFortissimi]

And that’s different from the Western world now, how exactly?

How is it similar? Japan has a decreasing population, a GDP that's basically still, and a hopeless generation of losers.

Meanwhile, the West is designing robots and planning space colonies.

 

[DarthOne]

How is it similar? Japan has a decreasing population, a GDP that's basically still, and a hopeless generation of losers.

Meanwhile, the West is designing robots and planning space colonies.

The West is falling apart at the seams, a fair chunk of the last two generations are likely to not get married or have kids, culturally we're floundering and being carried on by a combination of the post-WW2 inertia and the fact that we're able to poach talent and so on from other parts of the world.

 

[Scottty]

Something more or less related:

Sox Accounting

reaction.la

But the biggest problem with Sarbanes-Oxley is not that it has failed to force publicly traded companies and their accountants to act in a trustworthy manner, but that it has forced them to act in an untrustworthy manner.


It is not only very difficult and enormously expensive to comply with Sox. It is also impossible to comply with Sox. What publicly traded companies do instead is hire an accounting firm so well connected to the regulators that when it blesses the books it has prepared as Sox compliant, the regulators will pretend to believe. Which is great for the very respectable accountants, who get paid a great deal of money, and great for the regulators, who get paid off, but is terrible for businesses who pay a great deal of money and do not in fact get books that accurately tell management how the business is doing, and considerably worse for startups trying to go public, since the potential investors know that the books do not accurately tell the investors how the business is doing.


What established businesses do instead is prepare one set of books for Sox compliance, and another illegal and forbidden set of books for management that do not comply with Sox but which actually do reflect the movement and creation of value, but a startup is not allowed to tell potential investors about the real books that actually reflect the movement and creation of value for the purpose of an IPO.

 

[SoliFortissimi]

The West is falling apart at the seams

You call this falling apart? The US has dominance on every continent, every Western country is wealthy, all its external enemies are broken or doomed, and its culture dictates world culture.

 

[Scottty]

You call this falling apart? The US has dominance on every continent, every Western country is wealthy, all its external enemies are broken or doomed, and its culture dictates world culture.

If they are doing so well, why does the USA have so many homeless people?
There might be lots of wealth, but if it's all going into only a few people's pockets, that's not healthy.

 

[DarthOne]

You call this falling apart? The US has dominance on every continent, every Western country is wealthy, all its external enemies are broken or doomed, and its culture dictates world culture.

Again, by inertia.

And the current US/Western culture is degenerate, destructive and narcissistic.