No Enemies To The Right?

[Free-Stater 101]

if they call you a nazi when you aren't why would you trust that they are accurate in their assessment of others?

I don't know maybe because even a blind squirrel will find a nut if it looks long enough? Nazis walking around at Republican rallies wearing swastikas don't need to be verified, a guy walking around screaming the N-word doesn't need to be explained nor guy questioning the Holocaust.

It's easy enough to find and condemn the right people if you open your eyes and look.

also Trump really wasn't a nazi at all.

Never said he was.

 

[Blasterbot]

I don't know maybe because even a blind squirrel will find a nut if it looks long enough? Nazis walking around at Republican rallies wearing swastikas don't need verified, a guy walking around screaming the N-word doesn't need to be explained nor guy questioning the Holocaust.

It's easy enough to find and condemn the right people if you open your eyes and look.

Never said he was.

then why did you say

So? Give me one good reason why someone calling you a Nazi means you should embrace acting like one or hanging with them.

when referring to trump meeting with Kanye? either you are making the implication that he is acting like one as well as meeting them or you are just adding things to try and cast aspersions on him spuriously.

seriously I got better things to do with my time than trawl through stormfront and Fuentes guests and memorizing people who are evil bad racists. not only is it not productive this is the most I have ever given thought to that irrelevant asshat. if I look for people saying the N-word i'm gonna find 14 year olds on Xbox live, rappers, and trolls on 4chan which likely has crossover with the 14 year olds.

looking for swastikas? most the time it turns out to be some black person or jew doing it to get attention on how evil bad the people they go to university with are and how they totally would have done it but they needed to to bring attention to it. or once again they are just bored 14 year olds.

guys questioning the holocaust? i think I have met a grand total of 1 guy who did and it was just a literal question of numbers. it really doesn't matter that much to me if it was 2 or 6 million we both agreed it was horrific. and also 14 year olds online know it triggers people and find it hilarious to say things they don't believe.

looking for Nazis? again what do you mean? national socialists? not a political party. Racists? you are never gonna get rid of them, they are going to vote for someone, and still not actually nazis. Capitalists? not nazis. Social democrats? not nazis. the term has been watered down to the point of losing all meaning. it just means you disagree with whatever the leftist you are talking to is saying at this point.

sure if you see some people saying racist shit tell them to knock it off but seriously stop doing the lefts work for it and framing shit for them. if you let them dictate the conversation all it is gonna be is right wing racist nazi insurrectionists this whole cycle.

 

[Curved_Sw0rd]

Something I want to mention is the problem of framing. When someone gets pilloried by the Left as a Nazi or the like and you buy into it, or even try to repudiate it by finding all the things that make someone not a Nazi, you're still letting someone set up the frame for you.

When neoreactionary, big man populist, or Christian nationalist types are brushed off as bad people or lynch mobs in waiting, it's probably not "your" idea, it's a matter of accepting a frame that isn't yours. Treating the Left's moral system as equivalent and valid is stupid if you despise progressivism.

 

[Bacle]

Something I want to mention is the problem of framing. When someone gets pilloried by the Left as a Nazi or the like and you buy into it, or even try to repudiate it by finding all the things that make someone not a Nazi, you're still letting someone set up the frame for you.

When neoreactionary, big man populist, or Christian nationalist types are brushed off as bad people or lynch mobs in waiting, it's probably not "your" idea, it's a matter of accepting a frame that isn't yours. Treating the Left's moral system as equivalent and valid is stupid if you despise progressivism.

Or maybe, just maybe, it's cultural memories of the abuses by religious groups in the US, and a strong desire to not trade one set of authoritarian assholes for another set.

You don't have to buy the Left's nazi accusations to have heard of the Salem Witch Trials or the Scopes Monkey Trial.

Reactionaries are worthless at anything except being against the 'current thing', and Christian nationalists are the types who actually think the US is a 'Christian nation' where other faiths don't belong (or the wrong sects of Christianity, for that matter).

Populists have more of a chance, but not so long as they get controlled or pushed around by the other two groups mentioned.

Also, frankly, some of the people who call themselves neoreactionaries or Christian nationalists tend to have overlap with racists, sexists, and legit WN/WS group ties or sympathies. We've seen evidence of that on this very site in the past; need I remind you of the bullshit arguments FriedCFour, LindyAF, and Whitestrake used to post all over the place?

 

[Cherico]

Basically Denise is arguing that the GOP needs to fight and adopt this mentality to survive.

 

[Curved_Sw0rd]

Or maybe, just maybe, it's cultural memories of the abuses by religious groups in the US, and a strong desire to not trade one set of authoritarian assholes for another set.

You don't have to buy the Left's nazi accusations to have heard of the Salem Witch Trials or the Scopes Monkey Trial.

Reactionaries are worthless at anything except being against the 'current thing', and Christian nationalists are the types who actually think the US is a 'Christian nation' where other faiths don't belong (or the wrong sects of Christianity, for that matter).

Populists have more of a chance, but not so long as they get controlled or pushed around by the other two groups mentioned.

Also, frankly, some of the people who call themselves neoreactionaries or Christian nationalists tend to have overlap with racists, sexists, and legit WN/WS group ties or sympathies. We've seen evidence of that on this very site in the past; need I remind you of the bullshit arguments FriedCFour, LindyAF, and Whitestrake used to post all over the place?

You're not proving me wrong here. If anything I'd expect these talking points from Destiny. Salem Witch Trials, Creationism? Are those your big fears?

Are you actually, legitimately afraid of those on your Right? You're acting like you have skin in the game here.

 

[Aldarion]

Because sometimes you have to punch Right, and people's morality and willingness to call out bad actions should not be predicated on which political side you are on.

Not punching Right when needed is how you get fucktards like Nick Fuentes and Milo screwing with Trump and Kanye, and receiving no punishment for it.

And that is how you lose, if you are not careful.

Left doesn't give two hoots about morality, and will (and has, and did) use Right's own self-chastisement to force the Right to shift ever so leftward.

Which is how we have situation that modern-day mainstream Right is nothing but slightly less insane Left.

 

[Lord Sovereign]

And that is how you lose, if you are not careful.

Do you want to rub hands with actual National Socialists? Do you really think they don't see us as a means to an end?

No. We keep them as far away from us as possible.

 

[Curved_Sw0rd]

Do you want to rub hands with actual National Socialists? Do you really think they don't see us as a means to an end?

No. We keep them as far away from us as possible.

Rubbing hands implies moving that way, no. What I'm discussing here is not exhausting yourself denouncing them loudly and publicly, expecting to be treated any different by the Left.

Do you have the Leftist brain worm of "if I don't say anything I'm complicit" or such?

 

[Marduk]

Do you want to rub hands with actual National Socialists? Do you really think they don't see us as a means to an end?

No. We keep them as far away from us as possible.

My favorite way to deal with such accusations is to act offended over being confused for a socialist. Especially if it's a socialist doing the accusing.

 

[Aldarion]

Do you want to rub hands with actual National Socialists? Do you really think they don't see us as a means to an end?

No. We keep them as far away from us as possible.

Keep in mind that National Socialists are leftists with certain right-wing elements.

In other words, third-positionists, but far more to the left than the Fascists were.

Just by calling Nazis "right-wing", you are falling into leftist trap.

So instead of "punching to the right", just point out that literally everything that made Nazism so genocidal originated from the Left. And then keep punching to the left.

 

[Zyobot]

What part of "they'll fucking kill us" did you not quite get? They're every bit as bad as the crazies on the left and God forbid they ever get a taste of power.

I am a High Tory. In my estimation, a National Socialist is something you hit with a battleship broadside. You don't shake their bloody hand, because (as von Papen found out) they've a knife behind their back.

Do you want to rub hands with actual National Socialists? Do you really think they don't see us as a means to an end?

No. We keep them as far away from us as possible.

If anything, I think that outcome is worse!

At least if the Far Left wins, you'll either fight to the bitter end or otherwise die knowing you gave your all to stop them. But if the particularly crazed, ultra-reactionary monsters who you let into the Right betray you at the last second, you'll die for nothing and ultimately, knowing you've been duped into helping bring Neo-Hitler into power. That's a pretty shameful way to go (as I'm sure you'll agree), and whatever destruction a "Vive la Left!" scenario might unleash, I'd say it's rather pointless if your whole effort to prevent that ended in a Fourth Reich takeover where the crazies you let in hijack the movement, purge you, and burn everything down, anyway.

My favorite way to deal with such accusations is to act offended over being confused for a socialist. Especially if it's a socialist doing the accusing.

Okay, that one's pretty good!

Seriously, though, it always amuses me how the Nazis are always cast as Far Right boogeymen by academics and mainstream schools of political science, despite Hitler (and more "vanilla" Fascists, for that matter) having more in common with FDR than Calvin Coolidge. Extensive militarism, Keynesian central planning, an almighty executive branch, and use of state power to crush political enemies and imprison those deemed potential threats (such as extrajudicial Japanese internment), all very much characteristic of early 20th century Progressivism at its height under Roosevelt the Younger. Fortunately, FDR never took these to the batshit crazy levels Hitler's Reich did, but the fundamental tenants — while far more moderate and "diluted" in practice — were still very much there.

 

[King Arts]

Do you want to rub hands with actual National Socialists? Do you really think they don't see us as a means to an end?

No. We keep them as far away from us as possible.

Do you think all of us are so stupid that we’d get taken advantage by them? Here is the thing everyone in politics is using you as a means to an end the commies and the liberals you are just a tool not a player because of how you act. Maybe you are right that the Nazis would take advantage of you torture, but many of us are smart enough to take advantage of them instead and use them.

 

[Bacle]

You're not proving me wrong here. If anything I'd expect these talking points from Destiny. Salem Witch Trials, Creationism? Are those your big fears?

Are you actually, legitimately afraid of those on your Right? You're acting like you have skin in the game here.

Yes, I do fear that if the religious/evangelical Right were able to get their way at the federal level in all things, the US would be come an authoritarian theocracy pretty quickly, if it didn't first end up in a civil war.

Authoritarians, be they commie or evangelical, are not to be trusted or let into power, and I've seen enough to know that if the hardcore base of the Right got it's way, it'd be just as bad as if the commies did, just from the other end of the political spectrum.

One of my own grandmothers was Baptist sunday school teacher, I know very fucking well what evangelicals and their ilk are like and what it means for this nation.

I'll take AnCap rule long before I accept evangelical authoritarians in control of this nation.

 

[King Arts]

Yes, I do fear that if the religious/evangelical Right were able to get their way at the federal level in all things, the US would be come an authoritarian theocracy pretty quickly, if it didn't first end up in a civil war.

Authoritarians, be they commie or evangelical, are not to be trusted or let into power, and I've seen enough to know that if the hardcore base of the Right got it's way, it'd be just as bad as if the commies did, just from the other end of the political spectrum.

One of my own grandmothers was Baptist sunday school teacher, I know very fucking well what evangelicals and their ilk are like and what it means for this nation.

I'll take AnCap rule long before I accept evangelical authoritarians in control of this nation.

Actually not true about them being equal the extremists on the left are far worst than those on the right I can even prove it. Tell me who are the most extreme group on the right and the most extreme on the left.

 

[Terthna]

Yes, I do fear that if the religious/evangelical Right were able to get their way at the federal level in all things, the US would be come an authoritarian theocracy pretty quickly, if it didn't first end up in a civil war.

Authoritarians, be they commie or evangelical, are not to be trusted or let into power, and I've seen enough to know that if the hardcore base of the Right got it's way, it'd be just as bad as if the commies did, just from the other end of the political spectrum.

One of my own grandmothers was Baptist sunday school teacher, I know very fucking well what evangelicals and their ilk are like and what it means for this nation.

I'll take AnCap rule long before I accept evangelical authoritarians in control of this nation.

I liken the extremist (by my definition, not the regressive left's) right to World War 2-era Soviet Union, in that they are fair-weather allies of convenience who will stab us in the back the moment we no longer have a common foe; and possibly even before then.

 

[Free-Stater 101]

Actually not true about them being equal the extremists on the left are far worst than those on the right I can even prove it. Tell me who are the most extreme group on the right and the most extreme on the left.

Stop with the minor details. An extreme dictatorship of any sort would be bad the fact that one is more in line with your beliefs, and thus less likely to slay you and enforce extreme versions of them isn't a positive.

Give me Liberty!

 

[Bacle]

I liken the extremist (by my definition, not the regressive left's) right to World War 2-era Soviet Union, in that they are fair-weather allies of convenience who will stab us in the back the moment we no longer have a common foe; and possibly even before then.

Pretty much.

The authoritarian evangelicals are only 'allies' in that they don't have power to push their brand of authoritarianism on the US at this point.

 

[Bigking321]

Yes, I do fear that if the religious/evangelical Right were able to get their way at the federal level in all things, the US would be come an authoritarian theocracy pretty quickly, if it didn't first end up in a civil war.

I find any fear of the religious right to be laughably overblown.

At the worst they would say that some life choices are sinful. Probably would enforce the current laws against sexual explicit stuff around minors and such.

I doubt very much they would put anyone that disagreed with them against the wall like we have so many examples of from when leftists take somewhere over.

Hell, a big reason we are in such a horrible place right now is that the religious right has been insanely tolerant and conflict adverse.

I wish they were much more assertive then they actually are.

 

[Bacle]

I find any fear of the religious right to be laughably overblown.

At the worst they would say that some life choices are sinful. Probably would enforce the current laws against sexual explicit stuff around minors and such.

I doubt very much they would put anyone that disagreed with them against the wall like we have so many examples of from when leftists take somewhere over.

Hell, a big reason we are in such a horrible place right now is that the religious right has been insanely tolerant and conflict adverse.

I wish they were much more assertive then they actually are.

Lobotomies for homosexuals says hi, as do the Salem Witch Trials, the Scopes Monkey trial, along with sectarian fights over which is the 'right' version of Christianity, and also, in case you forgot, the US is a multi-faith nation, and the other non-Judeo-Christian faiths might have something to say about evangelical authoritarians getting power

We've seen what authoritarian religious groups have gotten up to in the past, and it very much shows us that not letting it take root in the first place is rather important.

We should not trade '1984' for 'Escape from LA/Escape from New York'.