Fallout Perpetual Debate of Bethesda Versus Interplay/Obsidian Fallout World Design

[Zachowon]

I think it's just people looking for things to complain about. I'm not a big fan of Fallout 4 weapon design in general but people harping about the realism of pipe weapons was never on my radar of concern. Being overly obsessed with realism in a game that contains very little already due to being a post-apocalyptic science fantasy romp makes me think those particular criticisms are kinda pointless and can be disregarded in general. I'd put it in the same field as criticizing about automotive and sports protection equipment being midtier armor in most games.

If it's an aesthetics thing or whatever sure, but none of the pipe weapons things broke my immersion or enjoyment or even tracked on my radar. Certainly not nearly as egregious as armor sourcing or talking animals which many of the same folks tend to not be bothered by.

I honestly like a lot of thr mechanics in 4.
Made it feel more immersive to me.

And pipe weapons are like I said, weapons made to look like people will do whatever to survive.

But I agree, it seems they just look for things to hate. But if you hate om the games they like they get all defensive

 

[Ixian]

If a bunch of tribesmen in Pakistan can make functional firearms of this quality...

Khyber Pass copy - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

I don't see why anyone would really bother with "pipe" weapons as shown in fallout.

 

[Zachowon]

If a bunch of tribesmen in Pakistan can make functional firearms of this quality...

Khyber Pass copy - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

I don't see why anyone would really bother with "pipe" weapons as shown in fallout.

Because they have been fighting a war and have had the functional capacity to know how and what to build.

Plus it makes more sense in a city where a bunch of people probably never touched a gun before

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

I mean..*Looks at guy who killed Abe in Japan with a gun that almost killed potential congressman Herrera*
Safety is not a concern in the wasteland

You're only furthering my point, the guy who killed Abe didn't use some sort of drum-magazine rusty splintered wood semi automatic with a miraculously rifled barrel.
He used an electronically primed muzzleloader blunderbuss.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Because they have been fighting a war and have had the functional capacity to know how and what to build.

Plus it makes more sense in a city where a bunch of people probably never touched a gun before

1: Almost every mook in Fallout aside from the most isolated of tribes has seen and probably used an actual firearm
2: The tools and equipment to build actual firearms are quite common in the wasteland because, well, everyone got nuked so all those tasty garages are still laying around!

 

[Typhonis]

The problem is it has been over 200 years after the bombs fell. It is a bit lawless with towns having to see to their own protection. Guns provide that protection so just about everyone HAS seen or touched a gun. It is a tool for protection and survival. So why then are there crap guns when with a little effort you can make a halfway decent gun like a Sten.

 

[DarthOne]

2: The tools and equipment to build actual firearms are quite common in the wasteland because, well, everyone got nuked so all those tasty garages are still laying around!

Despite the fact that after 200 years all of that should have crumbled to rust. Even a lot of stuff that was in the American South West.

But I'll leave it there as i doubt anyone wants to hear be complain about how Bethesda has No Sense of Reality.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Despite the fact that after 200 years all of that should have crumbled to rust. Even a lot of stuff that was in the American South West.

But I'll leave it there as i doubt anyone wants to hear be complain about how Bethesda has No Sense of Reality.

Well built tools that just sit around can last a damned long time, especially materials that won't rust like aluminum and such. Pre-War Fallout canonically built stuff to last, so a lot of it is still laying around 200 years later. Even crazy shit like biogel to keep brains alive has lasted that long.

The problem is it has been over 200 years after the bombs fell. It is a bit lawless with towns having to see to their own protection. Guns provide that protection so just about everyone HAS seen or touched a gun. It is a tool for protection and survival. So why then are there crap guns when with a little effort you can make a halfway decent gun like a Sten.

Because Bethesda thinks Fallout is some sort of garbagedump version of Mad Max, neglecting that Mad Max had guns lmao.

 

[mrttao]

Well built tools that just sit around can last a damned long time, especially materials that won't rust like aluminum and such. Pre-War Fallout canonically built stuff to last, so a lot of it is still laying around 200 years later. Even crazy shit like biogel to keep brains alive has lasted that long.

Every modern tool has plastic in it.
And most have batteries.
Both of those should have all crumbled in the 200 years.
No matter how good your craftsmanship is.

Steel corrodes too.
Slower than iron, but even stainless steel is not perfectly stainless.

Aluminium is so reactive that it doesn't even exist in nature in its non corroded form. instead we use electricity to chemically breakdown the bond between alumnium and other stuff to make pure aluminium.

 

[Morphic Tide]

Aliminum is so reactive that it doesn't even exist in nature in its non corroded form. instead we use electricity to chemically breakdown the bond between alumnium and other stuff to make pure aluminium.

On this front, it's not quite as bad as you make it out to be because it oxidizes quickly enough to form a solid layer. Can also be done to steel by adding magnesium, resulting in very even rust protecting the vast majority of the metal.

 

[mrttao]

But I'll leave it there as i doubt anyone wants to hear be complain about how Bethesda has No Sense of Reality.

I would like to hear you complain

 

[Zachowon]

You're only furthering my point, the guy who killed Abe didn't use some sort of drum-magazine rusty splintered wood semi automatic with a miraculously rifled barrel.
He used an electronically primed muzzleloader blunderbuss.

Yeah...that one can't recreate without killing the shooter.
It is possible to build pipe weapons, and makes sense when you have a bunch of raiders who just want to hunt you down and kill you.
If i can make my own weapons thay work, withiut havingnto get any super fancy things to build it (Herrera built the one gun thay the guy made for everyone to make. He said it wasnt as easy and he has CNC machinss).

1: Almost every mook in Fallout aside from the most isolated of tribes has seen and probably used an actual firearm

okay? Its been 200 years. Realsitcqlly unless well protected list would not be around.

2: The tools and equipment to build actual firearms are quite common in the wasteland because, well, everyone got nuked so all those tasty garages are still laying around!

If a large amount had guns in the first place.
Some probably never did.

 

[Scooby Doo]

Pipe Rifles are in the game for aesthetic reasons and to show there's shit guns made and then there's good quality guns made


Idk why people act like the East hasn't crafted decent looking guns. The Pitt manufactures modern weapons and so did the Nuka Raiders, the weapons dealer all sell decent weapons too.

The Pitt made these rifles and the Nuke Raiders made the ones below.

It's literally called in the base game Handmade rifle, y'all just being completely disingenuous or cherry picking even the lore says Pipe weapons exist because of literal skill issue

It's the bottom of the barrel, not the baseline of equipment.

 

[Aaron Fox]

Pipe Rifles are in the game for aesthetic reasons and to show there's shit guns made and then there's good quality guns made


Idk why people act like the East hasn't crafted decent looking guns. The Pitt manufactures modern weapons and so did the Nuka Raiders, the weapons dealer all sell decent weapons too.

The Pitt made these rifles and the Nuke Raiders made the ones below.

It's literally called in the base game Handmade rifle, y'all just being completely disingenuous or cherry picking even the lore says Pipe weapons exist because of literal skill issue

It's the bottom of the barrel, not the baseline of equipment.

This, pretty much.

Though honestly, I wouldn't be surprised that Fallout!US was going towards Stoner's 'modular rifle system' (shown with the Stoner 63)... at least until lasers started to be produced in bulk.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Every modern tool has plastic in it.
And most have batteries.
Both of those should have all crumbled in the 200 years.
No matter how good your craftsmanship is.

Steel corrodes too.
Slower than iron, but even stainless steel is not perfectly stainless.

Aluminium is so reactive that it doesn't even exist in nature in its non corroded form. instead we use electricity to chemically breakdown the bond between alumnium and other stuff to make pure aluminium.

You're comparing modern 'chinesium' tools to fallout pre-war stuff that was basically designed to have a bomb dropped on it and survive. :V

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

okay? Its been 200 years. Realsitcqlly unless well protected list would not be around.

If a large amount had guns in the first place.
Some probably never did.

Tell me you haven't played the first two games without telling me you haven't played the first two games.
1: Guns are fucking everywhere, pre-war everyone was packing guns, even laser guns! Guns were so common that you could buy personal military-spec body armor that are second-best in the wasteland
2: Everyone fucking died, leaving all those juicy guns behind, there's enough guns for everyone and then some.
3: Shockingly this wasn't enough guns, so people started building high quality firearms post-war as all the tooling was still laying around, and people made new tooling

Why do you think 200 years would result in LESS people building ways to kill one another? Raiders wouldn't be making pipe guns in their basement, they'd be out there packing modern handguns and blowback SMG's like the sten! Even the most basic bitch Fallout 1 raiders are packing stolen 10mm pistols and some hunting rifles, none of them are using shitty pipe guns.

If you have to resort to a pipe gun, you're probably better off just grabbing a spear or some spiked knuckles...Like what happens in Fallout 1 and 2.

 

[mrttao]

You're comparing modern 'chinesium' tools to fallout pre-war stuff that was basically designed to have a bomb dropped on it and survive. :V

modern chinesium appliances breakdown in 2 years +/- 2 years
built to last stuff is still only gonna last a few decades. Not centuries.
unless maybe if we are talking about a solid stainless steel tool like a wrench.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

modern chinesium appliances breakdown in 2 years +/- 2 years
built to last stuff is still only gonna last a few decades. Not centuries.
unless maybe if we are talking about a solid stainless steel tool like a wrench.

I mean you can build firearms with solid tools, hand drills, etc.
Also given we have actual examples of 200 year old machines still running like Zax, Skynet, etc. Fallout tools are just built different.

 

[mrttao]

I mean you can build firearms with solid tools, hand drills, etc.
Also given we have actual examples of 200 year old machines still running like Zax, Skynet, etc. Fallout tools are just built different.

I mean, yes. we know that canonically they build stuff that lasts.
But I thought we were talking about how the dev's don't understand stuff so they make unrealistic things.

 

[Zachowon]

I mean you can build firearms with solid tools, hand drills, etc.
Also given we have actual examples of 200 year old machines still running like Zax, Skynet, etc. Fallout tools are just built different.

I mean, have you seen the shit made in Brazil?