Star Wars Star Wars Discussion Thread - LET THE PAST D-! Oh, wait, nevermind

What pressing matters? The First Order went 'maximum overkill' on the Resistance because there wasn't anyone else to fight.

"We've got a siege ship handy, and it'll smash any shielded base they might have flat, as opposed to having to go in with a ground assault and give them a chance to escape."

The Core Worlds (many of whom are rather fortified) and their likely large militia forces. Come to think of it, there's numerous mid and outer rim worlds that would be a problem. Or do you think Mon Cala and Kashyyyk are going down without a fight?

The New Republic's mid and outer rim fleets (bugger off, there would have been elements of their military elsewhere) as well. Resistance is uncoordinated, but there should be plenty of fight left in the Galaxy.
 
The Core Worlds (many of whom are rather fortified) and their likely large militia forces. Come to think of it, there's numerous mid and outer rim worlds that would be a problem. Or do you think Mon Cala and Kashyyyk are going down without a fight?

The New Republic's mid and outer rim fleets (bugger off, there would have been elements of their military elsewhere) as well. Resistance is uncoordinated, but there should be plenty of fight left in the Galaxy.
System defense fleets aren’t going to be full battle fleets. Maybe a light cruiser at most with some escorts; all of which are more or less for anti-pirate work.

And while there would be other fleet elements of the New Republic in a sane and just universe, this is Disney Wars and their canon says ‘no’.
 
System defense fleets aren’t going to be full battle fleets. Maybe a light cruiser at most with some escorts; all of which are more or less for anti-pirate work.

As I understand it, Mon Cala still had a full blown fleet. Those chaps are very proud of their Navy (as a Brit, I can relate).
 
And while there would be other fleet elements of the New Republic in a sane and just universe, this is Disney Wars and their canon says ‘no’.

I think it's entirely logical that Disney canon had the New Republic heavily pushing "peace dividend" mass disarmament once they had a peace treaty with the Imperial Remnant. The idealists, the pragmatists, and the outright criminals all benefited from the near-total elimination of a strong Republic Navy in favor of smaller scale, locally controlled system/sector forces. The idealists because "that's how the Republic did it", the pragmatists because "we control our local fleets", and the criminals because "local fleets don't stop us".

It's honestly more sensible that the EU canon, which had the New Republic literally assigning moral value to the size of warships, and deciding that warships above a certain size and firepower were now forbidden because they were inherently evil.
 
I think it's entirely logical that Disney canon had the New Republic heavily pushing "peace dividend" mass disarmament once they had a peace treaty with the Imperial Remnant. The idealists, the pragmatists, and the outright criminals all benefited from the near-total elimination of a strong Republic Navy in favor of smaller scale, locally controlled system/sector forces. The idealists because "that's how the Republic did it", the pragmatists because "we control our local fleets", and the criminals because "local fleets don't stop us".

IE: Let's forget the Clone Wars happened and make the exact same mistakes that led to it, the collapse of the Old Republic, Order 66, and ultimately the rise of the Empire.

Aforementioned Empire is still out there by the way.

Although you are right in some respects. It's truly Republican tradition in Star Wars to commit self immolation via disarmament (cough cough, Ruusan, cough).
 
IE: Let's forget the Clone Wars happened and make the exact same mistakes that led to it, the collapse of the Old Republic, Order 66, and ultimately the rise of the Empire.

That's actually entirely in character for the morons running the New Republic in both 'timelines', especially because the people with power are the exact same people who had power in the Old Republic: the socioeconomic elite from the "important" Core and Mid-Rim Worlds.

Even if you *didn't* have Imperial hardliners coalescing into a "First Order" type movement, you'd have a neo-Seperatist movement in the Outer Rim going, "Hey! All that line you spouted about peace and freedom, and all we see is the exact same bullshit as the Old Republic." And you know what? They'd be right.
 
I'll give the Disney Canon credit for at least acknowledging that fundamental hypocrisy, where the EU pretty much glossed over the fact that the Outer Rim pretty much went from being powerless and exploited under the Old Republic, to being better in some places and worse in others under the Empire, to being powerless and exploited and told to be happy about it under the New Republic.
 
It's truly Republican tradition in Star Wars to commit self immolation via disarmament (cough cough, Ruusan, cough).
To be fair, is it really a suicidally bad move if it takes 1000 years to destroy the state? I’d say the problem was enshrining that the reformations were around long enough to become sacrosanct.
 
To be fair, is it really a suicidally bad move if it takes 1000 years to destroy the state? I’d say the problem was enshrining that the reformations were around long enough to become sacrosanct.

It wasn't the Republic that disarmed at Ruusan, it was the Jedi. Who at the time were literally ruling most of the Republic as supposedly-benevolent independent warlords.
 
I'll give the Disney Canon credit for at least acknowledging that fundamental hypocrisy, where the EU pretty much glossed over the fact that the Outer Rim pretty much went from being powerless and exploited under the Old Republic, to being better in some places and worse in others under the Empire, to being powerless and exploited and told to be happy about it under the New Republic.
I don't think this is accurate. The Separatist grievance, at the end of the day, boiled down to "the Core has all the power, only pushes policies that benefit the Core, and the Rim gets exploited without ever having a say". Fundamentally a sort of "no taxation without representation" kind of deal. (We can argue at length about the megacorp hypocrisy and astroturfing, but I'm describing the real popular discontent the CIS tapped into.)

The Empire crushes the CIS and was basically Core supremacy on steroids. (Tying into the human suspremacy that was linked to it, et cetera.)

The Rebel Alliance was, at least in part, heir to the CIS grievances. They were primarily Rim-based, multi-species, and overtly anti-centralist.

The New Republic was basically what the anecedents of the CIS argued for, before they ultimately saw secession as the only way out: an extremely decentralised confederation of worlds/systems/whatever. With as one of its key provisions a unilateral right to secession. So while the same Core elites ended up in charge of the Core, their ability to exploit the Rim was mostly gone. If they did that again, any Rim system could legally secede without any fuss. (Indeed, during the fake Thrawn debacle, various systems actively did so.)

The New Republic didn't make the Rim rich, and didn't invest in the Rim in the way a sort of... space-Henry Clay might desire. But that's because the Rim itself was demonstrably anti-centralist and followed a "we just want to be left alone" line. And that's what the New Republic gave them.
 
The New Republic didn't make the Rim rich, and didn't invest in the Rim in the way a sort of... space-Henry Clay might desire. But that's because the Rim itself was demonstrably anti-centralist and followed a "we just want to be left alone" line. And that's what the New Republic gave them.

I'm surprised, given everything the Outer Rim went through with the Empire, they didn't just outright bail on the Core Systems. They had good bloody reason to. What reason now does Mandalore have to answer to Coruscant?
 
The Rebel Alliance was, at least in part, heir to the CIS grievances.

Except the Rebel Alliance leadership explicitly rejected this idea. There's a canonical conversation between Mon Mothma and Padme Amidala as they cross the line from "loyal opposition" to "undercover rebels", where they talk it over and ultimately agree that the CIS had no right to rebel against the sovereign Republic regardless of how valid any of their grievances might have been, and that the Rebel Alliance wasn't the same because the Empire was a corruption of the Republic and they were fighting to bring the Republic back, not to overthrow it.

They were primarily Rim-based, multi-species, and overtly anti-centralist.

Only the cannon fodder. The Alliance leadership was almost entirely from the Core and Mid-Rim worlds, starting with the Organa-Mothma-Bel Iblis triumvirate and not changing after Organa died and Iblis left. Moreover, the Alliance leadership explicitly considered itself to essentially be the "rightful government-in-exile of the Republic".

Bail Organa of Alderaan - Core World, blue-blood nobility.
Mon Mothma of Chandrila - Core World, political elite family.
Garm Bel Iblis of Corellia - Core World, career politician
 
I'm surprised, given everything the Outer Rim went through with the Empire, they didn't just outright bail on the Core Systems. They had good bloody reason to. What reason now does Mandalore have to answer to Coruscant?
They got what they wanted: the ability to more-or-less govern themselves. Sure, they could say "fuck your Republic, we'll go it alone" ...but to what exact benefit? 100% autonomy instead of 99% autonomy? Cool, but the flip-side is "tariffs on all trade with the Republic". Giving up a small sliver of autonomy to be part of the extremely loosely-organised New Republic is a fairly good deal if the upside of that is free and untaxed trade access to basically the whole galaxy.

Except the Rebel Alliance leadership explicitly rejected this idea. There's a canonical conversation between Mon Mothma and Padme Amidala as they cross the line from "loyal opposition" to "undercover rebels", where they talk it over and ultimately agree that the CIS had no right to rebel against the sovereign Republic regardless of how valid any of their grievances might have been, and that the Rebel Alliance wasn't the same because the Empire was a corruption of the Republic and they were fighting to bring the Republic back, not to overthrow it.



Only the cannon fodder. The Alliance leadership was almost entirely from the Core and Mid-Rim worlds, starting with the Organa-Mothma-Bel Iblis triumvirate and not changing after Organa died and Iblis left. Moreover, the Alliance leadership explicitly considered itself to essentially be the "rightful government-in-exile of the Republic".

Bail Organa of Alderaan - Core World, blue-blood nobility.
Mon Mothma of Chandrila - Core World, political elite family.
Garm Bel Iblis of Corellia - Core World, career politician
A canversation between Mon and Padme can at the very latest have occurred in 19 BBY. The Rebel Alliance didn't exist then. Over a decade of oppression must inevitably have changed perspectives. Plus the fact that even if the Rebel leadership stayed the same, the rank-and-file had its own opinions. (You dismiss them as "cannon fodder"; nothing indicates that the Rebel Alliance saw its people that way -- at least not in the old EU.)

I already pointed to the canonical fact of unilateral secession for all members of the New Republic. This didn't exist in the old Republic. It clearly demonstrates that the Rebels considered this kind of thing to be required for justice to prevail. They knew that the old system had to be restored... but also improved. And improve it they did.
 
A canversation between Mon and Padme can at the very latest have occurred in 19 BBY. The Rebel Alliance didn't exist then. Over a decade of oppression must inevitably have changed perspectives. Plus the fact that even if the Rebel leadership stayed the same, the rank-and-file had its own opinions. (You dismiss them as "cannon fodder"; nothing indicates that the Rebel Alliance saw its people that way -- at least not in the old EU.)

Keep in mind that Mom Mothma went on to kick Bel Iblis out of the Alliance for refusing to send his troops on suicide missions just because she said so, and subsequently assumed unilateral control over the Alliance.

All in all, the EU's New Republic only stuck together out of blatant plot railroading. There is literally zero sensible reason that *any* of the major systems should have joined the New Republic at all, much less stayed in it once the political corruption started seriously rearing its head.

I already pointed to the canonical fact of unilateral secession for all members of the New Republic.

Canonically on paper, but also canonically plot-railed out of existence.
 
Speaking of Disney Canon Versus Legends Canon

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