Star Wars Star Wars Discussion Thread - LET THE PAST D-! Oh, wait, nevermind

[evilchumlee]

Part of what makes things a bit hard to follow in SW is that Lucas has, uh... roughly zero grasp of socio-economic reality. This is where his left-wing attitudes shine through the most. His idea for the Clone Wars was essentially: "like the US Civil War, but instead of slavers seceding, it's evil corporations... and instead of Lincoln, you have Hitler pretending to be Lincoln".

And this makes no sense.

It might more realistic sense, but it makes little story sense.

Palpatine orchestrates the... Core seceding so that the Outer Rim can... conquer it and then reform the Outer Ring stuff into the Empire that now occupies the Core?

They were probably better off not going to the Corporation route at all, and have it be more Outer Rim alien worlds seceding from the human dominated Republic, giving Palpatine the excuse to... wipe out a good chunk of the resistance he would have gotten from aliens.

 

[Skallagrim]

It might more realistic sense, but it makes little story sense.

Palpatine orchestrates the... Core seceding so that the Outer Rim can... conquer it and then reform the Outer Ring stuff into the Empire that now occupies the Core?

They were probably better off not going to the Corporation route at all, and have it be more Outer Rim alien worlds seceding from the human dominated Republic, giving Palpatine the excuse to... wipe out a good chunk of the resistance he would have gotten from aliens.

What...?

No.

The Rim still secedes, but for reasons that make sense. Palpatine still opposes it, for reasons that also make sense.

 

[Jaenera Targaryen]

I do remember reading something about them. If I recall, they also speak High Galactic which is... English.

Not quite. High Galactic is actually the Roman alphabet, and is supposedly the original Human alphabet in-universe. English is actually called Galactic Basic in-universe.

I think they're slightly less fascist and more... aristocratic. Star Wars humans tend to lean towards monarchical systems with establish nobility and aristocracy. That also tends to be breed superiority.

Checks out, wish reality was more like Star Wars in all honesty. All these presidents, senators, congressmen, lobbyists...it's a wonder anything gets done at all.

 

[evilchumlee]

Not quite. High Galactic is actually the Roman alphabet, and is supposedly the original Human alphabet in-universe. English is actually called Galactic Basic in-universe.

High Galactic

High Galactic was actually created due to the English letters used in the original version of ANH for the Tractor Beam Control.

 

[Jaenera Targaryen]

High Galactic

High Galactic was actually created due to the English letters used in the original version of ANH for the Tractor Beam Control.

Meta-wise, sure. But I don't hold truck with Disney canon. Legends/EU/true Star Wars only for me, please.

 

[evilchumlee]

Meta-wise, sure. But I don't hold truck with Disney canon. Legends/EU/true Star Wars only for me, please.

It was the same in Legends.

 

[Lord Sovereign]

What...?

No.

The Rim still secedes, but for reasons that make sense. Palpatine still opposes it, for reasons that also make sense.

And the Galactic Civil War that followed the Rise of the Empire would in many respects be a continuation of that split. The core of the Rebel Alliance would be Confederates, and they’d clash with those from the core who are also chafing under Palpatine’s power fetish.

Indeed, going off your idea, there’s an amusing possibility that Count Dooku would be considered a martyr and a prophet by many fighting in the Alliance.

 

[Skallagrim]

And the Galactic Civil War that followed the Rise of the Empire would in many respects be a continuation of that split. The core of the Rebel Alliance would be Confederates, and they’d clash with those from the core who are also chafing under Palpatine’s power fetish.

Indeed, going off your idea, there’s an amusing possibility that Count Dooku would be considered a martyr and a prophet by many fighting in the Alliance.

Yes. Very much so. Years ago, I posited that no matter what, a good portion of the Rebels would be neo-CIS (and even old CIS vets), and that "the Lost Cause of Count Dooku" would be a big part of their narrative. My point then was that it was sad that so little of that got explored in the EU, even though it would be very interesting. (And would give some much-needed context to the "heroes on both sides" line.)

Sadly, the closest we got was Atticus Farstar and the Seppie hold-outs.

In the kind of narrative I proposed here, elements such as these would be unavoidable. Just as you say.

 

[evilchumlee]

Yes. Very much so. Years ago, I posited that no matter what, a good portion of the Rebels would be neo-CIS (and even old CIS vets), and that "the Lost Cause of Count Dooku" would be a big part of their narrative. My point then was that it was sad that so little of that got explored in the EU, even though it would be very interesting. (And would give some much-needed context to the "heroes on both sides" line.)

It's... interesting anyway, that the Rebels icon would be a Dark Lord of the Sith. Granted they don't know that.

I did always find it funny though how the CIS could think they are the good guys while having their flagship named "Malevolence"...

 

[DarthOne]

It's... interesting anyway, that the Rebels icon would be a Dark Lord of the Sith. Granted they don't know that.

I did always find it funny though how the CIS could think they are the good guys while having their flagship named "Malevolence"...

That’s TCW lore about the Malevolence. Also, I’ve seen some valid points to be made about Dooku being a Jedi who left the order but not being a Sith would allow for a more nuanced story telling.

 

[Skallagrim]

That’s TCW lore about the Malevolence. Also, I’ve seen some valid points to be made about Dooku being a Jedi who left the order but not being a Sith would allow for a more nuanced story telling.

I've long agreed with that idea. Dooku being... not necessarily good, but still far from being a Sith would add a lot of complexity. And the entire plot makes far more sense if he's unaware that Palpatine (his political nemesis) is also the mysterious man who's providing the CIS with vital information.

 

[evilchumlee]

Also, I’ve seen some valid points to be made about Dooku being a Jedi who left the order but not being a Sith would allow for a more nuanced story telling.

Yeah, but Star Wars isn't really generally about nuance.

 

[Lord Sovereign]

Yes. Very much so. Years ago, I posited that no matter what, a good portion of the Rebels would be neo-CIS (and even old CIS vets), and that "the Lost Cause of Count Dooku" would be a big part of their narrative. My point then was that it was sad that so little of that got explored in the EU, even though it would be very interesting. (And would give some much-needed context to the "heroes on both sides" line.)

Sadly, the closest we got was Atticus Farstar and the Seppie hold-outs.

In the kind of narrative I proposed here, elements such as these would be unavoidable. Just as you say.

The half angry, half smug, “we told you so” of the Neo-CIS would be intolerable for men like Bail Organa.

It would make a post Imperial Collapse all the more bloody complicated as well. The Emperor overthrown, his armies scattered, and the Alliance to restore the Republic can finally achieve its goal…much to the displeasure of the Seppies in their ranks.

Mon Mothma: Look, it will be better this time-

Seppies: Nah, fuck you. We’re off. Keep your damn Republic. We don’t want it.

 

[Bassoe]

Vader is too far gone by ANH.

So, kill Palpatine earlier? He'd accounted for every plausible threat to his plan. That left being eaten by the Zillo Beast.

 

[DarthOne]

The half angry, half smug, “we told you so” of the Neo-CIS would be intolerable for men like Bail Organa.

It would make a post Imperial Collapse all the more bloody complicated as well. The Emperor overthrown, his armies scattered, and the Alliance to restore the Republic can finally achieve its goal…much to the displeasure of the Seppies in their ranks.

Mon Mothma: Look, it will be better this time-

Seppies: Nah, fuck you. We’re off. Keep your damn Republic. We don’t want it.

Considering how messed up the New Republic is in canon and how badly it botched stuff on occasion even in Legends (along with the stupid ‘no Star destroyers’ and similar), I can’t blame the Confederates.

 

[Hlaalu Agent]

So, kill Palpatine earlier? He'd accounted for every plausible threat to his plan. That left being eaten by the Zillo Beast.

It would be a suitable ending, to be eaten by the one being that realized how evil you were. Imagine if he could speak Basic, or an intelligible language.

Zillo Beast: This motherfucker is a clearly evil, just look at how shifty he is and how he is centralizing power into his own hands and how he always seems to come out on top. Also he is a Sith Lord.

 

[Him]

What Kyber Crystal ya'll choosing, canonicity irrelevant.

 

[Hlaalu Agent]

What Kyber Crystal ya'll choosing, canonicity irrelevant.

The giant hecking one they used for the Death Star.

 

[Jaenera Targaryen]

What Kyber Crystal ya'll choosing, canonicity irrelevant.

Obligatory 'no such thing as a kyber crystal'.

As for what I'd use for a lightsaber, the same ones I use from SWTOR. Classic red for my Sith, and hip violet for my Jedi (Knight, I hate the Consular).

 

[evilchumlee]

So, kill Palpatine earlier? He'd accounted for every plausible threat to his plan. That left being eaten by the Zillo Beast.

If Palpatine dies pre-ANH, Vader has to contend with the Imperial Senate. We don't REALLY know the true extent of their power and influence but it was clearly not-insignificant. In ANH, Rando Imperial Officer is concerned about the attack in the beginning generating sympathy for the rebellion in the Senate. In Rogue One, we see that the Empire literally hid the Death Star from the Senate because it would have been major bad news if they found out about it.

Palpatine was a politician, able to wrangle them. Vader was not. Sure Vader could pull the "dissolve the Senate" card earlier but i'm not sure he was the political capital to keep the Empire together in a such a situation.

I never get the impression that Vader is particularly liked... or even feared... by high level Imperials. Tarkin has no issues barking orders at him. Going into the EU, Tagge had zero fear of Vader and seemed to like to screw with him when he could. Motti clearly had no problem calling him out.

The empire crumbles under Vader in most any circumstance.