Movies Starship Troopers: The bugs did nothing wrong

[ThatZenoGuy]

Making this thread because for some stupid reason the 'right wing' have decided to die on such a stupid hill.

In the film (the film, not the book, the FIRST MOVIE), the bugs did nothing wrong. And I am going to prove it, because its really grating on me.

1: Territory.

A common argument is that the bugs have a vast interstellar empire that is encroaching on humanity, and thus the bugs must be stopped before they get too numerous. A fair situation if this is true. But is it?
In the first film we get told of a Quarantine-Zone which is the entireity of bug-space. How many planets do we actually see in this 'massive zone'?

Three. We see three planets, one of which appears to be the Bug's home planet, so we can't even really include that one as it rightfully belongs to them.

Worse, all these planets ARE WITHIN THE SAME KLENDATHU STAR SYSTEM. These critters haven't even invented interSTELLAR travel yet! They're glorified mars colonists whereas humanity can go across the galaxy in a matter of DAYS! In regards to space colonization we have them beat by orders of magnitude!

So the bugs did nothing wrong in regards to empire-building, they're probably not even interested in building outside of their starsystem.


2: First strike part 1: Mormons

The film's overt claim is the bugs struck first, sending a meteor to blow up Buenos Aires. Except this has issues in and of itself. Humans entered bug territory and started colonizing it despite bugs being present, specifically space-mormons on a planet which appears to be outside of the Klendathu System. The mormons were allegedly warned by the Federation not to colonize the planet as it 'had bugs on it', despite this planet never being attacked by the federation in the film, even though it's a perfect target to sterilize.

But Zeno, didn't you just say they can't colonize outside their system? Well they've had millions of years to attempt colonizing at least one planet outside the system, but I don't believe this planet ever had bugs on it and I'll explain why.

The mormons were present on the planet for six months before the 'bugs' attacked, this is unlikely as the bugs are shown to be particularly hostile and animalistic, they would've all died in the first week, probably the first day really. And yet we're expected to believe they lasted six months when trained soldiers can barely survive a night on their planets? Something doesn't add up!

Now if only there was someone with FTL who can transport bugs around...Oh wait, the Federation does exactly that when it captures samples from planets! Not to mention the Federation didn't like the space-mormons anyways, they're a perfect group of people to murder and turn into propaganda. So no, the space-mormons, even if they were attacked by bugs in a very unlikely fashion, kinda had it coming to them.


3: First strike part 2: Bug Meteor

So apparently the intrusion into 'bug space' pissed off the entire species, something the bugs can't really do as they don't have interstellar communications, they don't even seem to have interPLANETARY communications for that matter. So in retaliation the bugs did something that is so outrageously beyond their capabilities it's basically the same as a human throwing a dart to mars while blindfolded.

They apparently used 'bug plasma', sub-light energy weapons that appear to be their method of interplanetary reproduction, to knock a bigass rock out from orbit of their system, sending it across the galaxy and specifically onto a highly populated human city.

They did this without knowing where Earth was, what was between Earth and their planets, and without anything even approaching let alone exceeding the speed of light.

If anyone can actually believe a species that has never invented shoes, the fork, or even the WHEEL can nail a city from across a galaxy, I have a very large bridge to sell you.

But Zeno, it's science fiction it's not super realistic, sci-fi writers don't really know numbers at all! You might say, but the film makes it clear that moving to the other side of the galaxy requires advanced starships with sci-fi engines and all that typical sci-fi stuff. You know what the bugs specifically lack, outright shown in the entire film? TYPICAL SCI-FI SHIT! They're so fucking slow, their strongest most advanced weapons are basically a bunch of bugs taking massive shits into orbit at fairly low speeds. It'd be like suggesting modern-day people could nail a planet on the other side of our galaxy because we invented the ICBM!

Even the meteor is suspicious. Firstly it appears right out of nowhere, seriously watch the film one second its empty clear space, the next second its taking up 20% of the window! Right after a suspicious screen depicts a massive gravity well similar to what a wormhole or FTL drive or sci-fi gizmo would create. And remind me who is the only people with that technology? The Federation. They need plausible deniability so they just launch it 'roughly' from the direction of the bug planets, which at galactic scale is basically 'anywhere THAT direction'.

And if the bugs really did launch it, why only one rock? Why a rock that would only do minimal damage? Why not send ten rocks? A hundred? A planetkiller rock? Why you may ask? Because they never SENT the rock, the rock did only as much damage as convenient to the war effort.


4: Second bug meteor

So after sending the first rock, they apparently send a second, except this time somehow the humans have an entire defense grid they build in no-time at all! Again more than suspicious as already made clear the bugs cannot launch rocks at Earth, so it's just a glorious work of propaganda.
The defence grid might not even exist, they wouldn't have a need for one as all they ever fight is space-bugs. And if the defence grid does exist, why didn't it shoot down the first meteor, that stuck at such a low velocity that it didn't do significant damage to the planet?


5: Bugs really never stood a chance

Oh right, did I mention how they've already crushed other species of space-bugs? The 'Arkellian' sand beetle is a relatively harmless dog-sized cockroach that are captured in great numbers for use in science classrooms, and some other unidentified species has damaged the countless veterans of previous wars. Science teacher has horrific acid burns on her face, many people missing limbs, one of the ways big-spacebugs would hurt you. Arachnids weren't the first to be crushed and they probably won't be the last.

The bugs are an exclusively terrestrial species with no spacecraft of any sort, they lack any heavy weapons aside from easily destroyed plasma bugs and generally aside from the invasion of Klendathu the bug extermination campaign is going swimmingly, even when absorbing the knowledge of federation soldiers and officers they only just manage to pose a threat to isolated groups of soldiers. They simply cannot counter the technological advantage of humans who can be airlifted to safety in a moment's notice.

Why would the bugs, if they're intelligent, provoke a war with a species so superior and dangerous than themselves? Which they have no capability to strike back at? It all doesn't add up, and is easy to explain.


The bugs did nothing wrong.

 

[ATP]

You are right about Movie,but movie suck.Both showing normal goverment as kind of space germans,but also making mechanized infrantry soviet style human wave infrantry.

But,in book it is logical,and in book bugs were wrong.So,forget movie,focus on book.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

You are right about Movie,but movie suck.Both showing normal goverment as kind of space germans,but also making mechanized infrantry soviet style human wave infrantry.

But,in book it is logical,and in book bugs were wrong.So,forget movie,focus on book.

Yes yes I know the book is different than the movie, but we're talking about the movie!
If you want to talk about the movie, great! But if you want to talk about the book, I suggest making another thread.

 

[Crom's Black Blade]

But Zeno, didn't you just say they can't colonize outside their system? Well they've had millions of years to attempt colonizing at least one planet outside the system, but I don't believe this planet ever had bugs on it and I'll explain why.

If you have to invent evidence and events beyond what is shown in the film you've progressed beyond analysis into fan fiction.

I can just as easily claim the Arachnids have colonized most of the galaxy via the insane precise targeting skills they show to hit earth to shoot their spoors onto distant worlds either via slowboating or, most likely, they developed some means of ftl travel. And thus Mankind was locked in mortal combat against a pure communist, expanist empire.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

If you have to invent evidence and events beyond what is shown in the film you've progressed beyond analysis into fan fiction.

I can just as easily claim the Arachnids have colonized most of the galaxy via the insane precise targeting skills they show to hit earth to shoot their spoors onto distant worlds either via slowboating or, most likely, they developed some means of ftl travel. And thus Mankind was locked in mortal combat against a pure communist, expanist empire.

There's only three planets that are confirmed to have bugs on them, and they're all in the same starsystem.
You're assuming things that aren't in the film, YOU'RE the fan theorist.

 

[Crom's Black Blade]

There's only three planets that are confirmed to have bugs on them, and they're all in the same starsystem.
You're assuming things that aren't in the film, YOU'RE the fan theorist.

Actually outside of some form of FTL, everything I said was shown or stated in the first film.

In contrast to your idea(s) which aren't. Unless you can show me the scene of the Federation staging the Mormon colony slaughter.

Further you misses my point. Your speculation is no more real than mine or every "right-winger" who says the Federation are the real good guys. So if we're including made up evidence then I or anyone can say "nope, the Bugs did" and ve equally valid.

That what your are doing here isn't some rational, clever deep analysis. Rather it's like a child sticking his fingers In his ears and shouting.

If you don't like Starship Troopers, fine. If you think they're fascist, also fine. I might even agree with you. But ignoring the film and making up stuff because there is a dearth of actual wrong doing commited by the Federation is no way to convince anyone but a fellow traveler.

 

[Carrot of Truth]

I have only once answer for pro bug scum.

 

[Poe]

The bugs did nothing wrong.

Cool story, they're still bugs and thus the humans are the good guys.

 

[Carrot of Truth]

I feel like this is probably a factor in this post and probably relevant.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Actually outside of some form of FTL, everything I said was shown or stated in the first film.

In contrast to your idea(s) which aren't. Unless you can show me the scene of the Federation staging the Mormon colony slaughter.

Further you misses my point. Your speculation is no more real than mine or every "right-winger" who says the Federation are the real good guys. So if we're including made up evidence then I or anyone can say "nope, the Bugs did" and ve equally valid.

That what your are doing here isn't some rational, clever deep analysis. Rather it's like a child sticking his fingers In his ears and shouting.

If you don't like Starship Troopers, fine. If you think they're fascist, also fine. I might even agree with you. But ignoring the film and making up stuff because there is a dearth of actual wrong doing commited by the Federation is no way to convince anyone but a fellow traveler.

The bugs are incapable of what the Federation claims they are doing, ergo, the Federation are lying. They lie about all sorts of stuff.
Therefore, bugs did nothing wrong. They have neither the will or the capability to wage war on a galactic level.

To say the bugs did what the federation claims they do, is to ignore reality and to submit to their regime. Which means you failed the test the film provides.

 

[Carrot of Truth]

The bugs are incapable of what the Federation claims they are doing, ergo, the Federation are lying. They lie about all sorts of stuff.
Therefore, bugs did nothing wrong. They have neither the will or the capability to wage war on a galactic level.

To say the bugs did what the federation claims they do, is to ignore reality and to submit to their regime. Which means you failed the test the film provides.

In the books they were intelligent and even allied with the "Skinnies" to make war on the United Citizen Republic

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

In the books they were intelligent and even allied with the "Skinnies" to make war on the United Citizen Republic

Yes I am aware of that, pay attention to the second line in OP please. Book Arachnids and Movie Arachnids are radically different.

 

[Carrot of Truth]

Yes I am aware of that, pay attention to the second line in OP please. Book Arachnids and Movie Arachnids are radically different.

I mean in the movie they launched an unprovoked attack on earth

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

I mean in the movie they launched an unprovoked attack on earth

Except they didn't. They simply could not, and therefore did not.

Unless you want to show me where they have FTL travel? Or the ability to target planets let alone cities?

 

[Carrot of Truth]

Except they didn't. They simply could not, and therefore did not.

Unless you want to show me where they have FTL travel? Or the ability to target planets let alone cities?

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

A meteor hit a city, it could be a natural event, a false flag or anything inbetween.
It was not a bug attack as bugs do not have the capability to launch meteors at planets across a galaxy.

 

[Carrot of Truth]

A meteor hit a city, it could be a natural event, a false flag or anything inbetween.
It was not a bug attack as bugs do not have the capability to launch meteors at planets across a galaxy.

They actually do have that ability and its described as to how they do it and its part of their colonization process. At best they are animalistic and a highly lethal invasive species but as the later movies show they intentionally do this.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

They actually do have that ability and its described as to how they do it and its part of their colonization process. At best they are animalistic and a highly lethal invasive species but as the later movies show they intentionally do this.

No, the only quote in the entire film in regards to their colonization is they 'hurl their spores into space'. Which appears limited to their single starsystem as all three planets we see in the film are in the Klendathu system.
Even if they can do interstellar travel, it would take thousands if not millions of years to perform such acts with the velocities they present to us.

 

[Crom's Black Blade]

The bugs are incapable of what the Federation claims they are doing, ergo, the Federation are lying.

No, you refuse to believe they are capable of what is claimed but the film itself never states or suggests the Federation is being anything but truthful in this regard. Now there are many out of universe reasons why shooting plasma at asteroids doesn't make a lot of sense but none of those apply in-universe where, despite having some form of free press and opposing viewpoints such as whether or not the Bugs are intelligent, we never see any doubt or skepticism over the plausibility of the attack(s).

In essence your "argument" is akin to pointing out Bugs couldn't not possibly grow as large as the Arachnids and faster than light isn't feasible so clearly Klendathu is a sound stage and the bugs animatronics and cgi puppets rather than accepting the real world and the movie-verse aren't 1 to 1.

We can bitch about how believable the "science" in Starship Troopers is and speculate on how the Bugs can accomplish what they accomplish, I'd lean towards ESP and gravimetric wormholes, but the film never gives as reason to not take all of it at face value. At least as far as the first film goes we get a bit lucky there in that the Bugs full capability are, to both us and the Federation, not entirely known ie they didn't even know about the Brain bug until after the War started. So we have some room to speculate and fill in gaps for them.

Which means you failed the test the film provides.

I care about arguments and consistency. In this particular case it requires arbitrarily ignoring inconvenient information, basically everything we're told about the bugs, and inventing incriminating evidence from whole cloth. It is therefore illogical and irrational and thus not something I can, nor desire, to be part of.

I have only once answer for pro bug scum.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

No, you refuse to believe they are capable of what is claimed but the film itself never states or suggests the Federation is being anything but truthful in this regard. Now there are many out of universe reasons why shooting plasma at asteroids doesn't make a lot of sense but none of those apply in-universe where, despite having some form of free press and opposing viewpoints such as whether or not the Bugs are intelligent, we never see any doubt or skepticism over the plausibility of the attack(s).

It's not a matter of belief, it's a simple matter of the bugs being incapable of launching rocks across a galaxy. It doesn't pass the most minor levels of scrutiny.
Why would they launch just one rock if they intended to attack humanity? For that matter why would they launch a rock at all over a minor colonization incident? It's nonsensical. We can either choose to believe the propaganda shown to us (I don't believe in IRL propaganda let alone FICTIONAL ones) or do the more rational thing and understand it's all a lie.

In essence your "argument" is akin to pointing out Bugs couldn't not possibly grow as large as the Arachnids and faster than light isn't feasible so clearly Klendathu is a sound stage and the bugs animatronics and cgi puppets rather than accepting the real world and the movie-verse aren't 1 to 1.

Nonsense, suspension of disbelief is contextual. I can believe in orcs and dragons in LoTR, but somebody driving a brand new BMW into Mordor would be silly.
Likewise giant spacebugs are believable in a science fiction world, but said spacebugs lacking any form of technology yet managing interstellar rock bombardments breaks said consistency. You know who COULD launch rocks into planets in Starship Troopers? The Federation.

We can bitch about how believable the "science" in Starship Troopers is and speculate on how the Bugs can accomplish what they accomplish, I'd lean towards ESP and gravimetric wormholes, but the film never gives as reason to not take all of it at face value. At least as far as the first film goes we get a bit lucky there in that the Bugs full capability are, to both us and the Federation, not entirely known ie they didn't even know about the Brain bug until after the War started. So we have some room to speculate and fill in gaps for them.

The bugs neither have ESP or wormholes, neither are shown in the first film. If there was a scene showing a bug 'ship' or spores going through a wormhole that'd be fine. But it's evident bugs really REALLY don't do anything space-related, aside from shitting into orbit.

I care about arguments and consistency. In this particular case it requires arbitrarily ignoring inconvenient information, basically everything we're told about the bugs, and inventing incriminating evidence from whole cloth. It is therefore illogical and irrational and thus not something I can, nor desire, to be part of.

You evidently get easily persuaded by fictional propaganda, you should read up on critical thinking skills. Very useful.