student loan, tuition, H-1B and debt forgiveness thread

[Zachowon]

I would not have expected this out of you considering many of your posts I have seen around here.

I took you for quite the lefty. I would have expected you'd be touting open borders or some lunacy like that.

I guess that's what I get for assuming.

Everyone has different opinion on a lot of things.

Just because he may not like Trump or some of the things, he may have some opinions that make him fit in with us more then other places.

 

[History Learner]

EH, I am against THAT strict of things. Having talked to students from Korea who have had to come and serve their constription her in Korea, allowing them to come in as students and work, as well as have the ability to get a visa and perhaps even citizenship through being an Immigrant is great.

Being super strict I disagree on, but cracking down on illegal immigration, as well as making it more strict for normal immigration

I do have some exceptions; Poland has taken on something like one million ethnic Ukrainians fleeing the Donbass War, I'd accept them. Same for Middle Eastern Christians fleeing ISIS back in the day or the like. War Wives, children of soldiers (I'm still mad over what happened when Vietnam ended on that point) and soldiers themselves. In general though, I am strongly against immigration, especially H1Bs.

 

[History Learner]

I would not have expected this out of you considering many of your posts I have seen around here.

I took you for quite the lefty. I would have expected you'd be touting open borders or some lunacy like that.

I guess that's what I get for assuming.

I was a Trump 2016 voter if that shocks you even more lol. I'm Left Wing on economics, but not on social or foreign policy.

 

[Rocinante]

I was a Trump 2016 voter if that shocks you even more lol. I'm Left Wing on economics, but not on social or foreign policy.

Hey the more you know.

We are almost opposites in that regard. Could make for interesting conversation.

I'm pretty socially liberal. (Immigration and SJWism being exceptions) and fiscally I'd say a bit right of center.

So I align with the libertarian party, (aside from immigration,) with their socially liberal, fiscally conservative position. Though they take it further than I probably would.

Anyways, this is getting off topic, but hey, worth it. I thought you were a lefty troll and instead you're just someone who disagrees with me. I like people who disagree with me. I was wrong about you, and I would like to offer apologies for that.

 

[Zachowon]

I do have some exceptions; Poland has taken on something like one million ethnic Ukrainians fleeing the Donbass War, I'd accept them. Same for Middle Eastern Christians fleeing ISIS back in the day or the like. War Wives, children of soldiers (I'm still mad over what happened when Vietnam ended on that point) and soldiers themselves. In general though, I am strongly against immigration, especially H1Bs.

I am for H1Bs in some cases and not in others. It should be even more specific.

 

[History Learner]

Hey the more you know.

We are almost opposites in that regard. Could make for interesting conversation.

I'm pretty socially liberal. (Immigration and SJWism being exceptions) and fiscally I'd say a bit right of center.

So I align with the libertarian party, (aside from immigration,) with their socially liberal, fiscally conservative position. Though they take it further than I probably would.

Anyways, this is getting off topic, but hey, worth it. I thought you were a lefty troll and instead you're just someone who disagrees with me. I like people who disagree with me. I was wrong about you, and I would like to offer apologies for that.

No need for apologies!

 

[History Learner]

I am for H1Bs in some cases and not in others. It should be even more specific.

One of my earliest campaign memories from 2016 was in early 2015, when I think Disney used H1Bs to lay off a bunch of workers. That's really shaped my opinions on the matter, as well as the whole farm labor issue.

 

[Zachowon]

One of my earliest campaign memories from 2016 was in early 2015, when I think Disney used H1Bs to lay off a bunch of workers. That's really shaped my opinions on the matter, as well as the whole farm labor issue.

THat is why I think the reason one should be issued an H1B is if they are bot used in high numbers but in numbers necessary for certain aspects.

 

[History Learner]

THat is why I think the reason one should be issued an H1B is if they are bot used in high numbers but in numbers necessary for certain aspects.

Personal feeling on it is if a company can afford to sponsor and hire someone to immigrate, why not instead hire domestically from our existing labor pool? If you don't feel enough people have qualifications, train them; I feel like H1Bs are just a way of paying lower wages to workers.

 

[Zachowon]

Personal feeling on it is if a company can afford to sponsor and hire someone to immigrate, why not instead hire domestically from our existing labor pool? If you don't feel enough people have qualifications, train them; I feel like H1Bs are just a way of paying lower wages to workers.

Yes and no. One needs to think about how much would it cost/how long would it take to train said person.
The US Government for example spends at least 75 grand on training a soldier in my field from basic through AIT with clearence.

Yes a company may have the money to do just that for people, but budgets exist for a reason, one has to pay attention if it is within their budget to allow them to send them for the training.

 

[Christi]

At the cost of ruining their credit, which will follow them till the day they die and seriously effect their ability to buy homes, cars, and other necessities of modern life. Removing the Federal Guarantee also only works on future loans, not standing debt; it's a legal contract on the outstanding amount.



Either way, it would materially improve the conditions of far more people than it would harm.

Bankruptcy follows you for 7 years. If I could get the state to pay for all my training then ruin my credit for a few years I’d do it in a heartbeat. Right now I’m either just going to pay it off or do service program in a low service area.
I know a lawyer with a few hundred grand in loans. He’d ruin his credit in a heartbeat with bankruptcy because he could fix it in a few years.

It would hurt millions people because that money still has to be paid back.

 

[Rocinante]

At the cost of ruining their credit, which will follow them till the day they die and seriously effect their ability to buy homes, cars, and other necessities of modern life. Removing the Federal Guarantee also only works on future loans, not standing debt; it's a legal contract on the outstanding amount.



Either way, it would materially improve the conditions of far more people than it would harm.

Bankruptcy doesn't really destroy your credit for that long these days.

You have to basically start over again, but you can rebuild.

My friend filed bankruptcy like 5 years ago. And they're fine, they've got decently large lines of credit and a financed car, which they reliably pay, and a decent credit score that's up there with mine even though I've never had a credit problem.

Fucking my credit for a few years to not have to make student loan payments though, actually sounds quite tempting. I make all my payments on time, bit it's a burden that I could live without.

 

[History Learner]

Yes and no. One needs to think about how much would it cost/how long would it take to train said person.
The US Government for example spends at least 75 grand on training a soldier in my field from basic through AIT with clearence.

Yes a company may have the money to do just that for people, but budgets exist for a reason, one has to pay attention if it is within their budget to allow them to send them for the training.

Here's an idea of the costs for an H1B. For reference, just the $4,000 fee is about the cost of three semesters of Community College.

 

[History Learner]

Bankruptcy follows you for 7 years. If I could get the state to pay for all my training then ruin my credit for a few years I’d do it in a heartbeat. Right now I’m either just going to pay it off or do service program in a low service area.
I know a lawyer with a few hundred grand in loans. He’d ruin his credit in a heartbeat with bankruptcy because he could fix it in a few years.

It would hurt millions people because that money still has to be paid back.

Can you explain what you mean more? I'm confused what you're attempting to argue for or against here.

Bankruptcy doesn't really destroy your credit for that long.these days.

You have to basically start over again, but you can rebuild.

My friend filed bankruptcy like 5 years ago. And they're fine, they've got decently large lines of credit and a financed car, which they reliably pay, and a decent credit score that's up there with mine even though I've never had a credit problem.

Fucking my credit for a few years to not have to make student loan payments though, actually sounds quite tempting. I make all my payments on time, bit it's a burden that I could live without.

Like I said upthread though, it's really a question of why do this? If they take bankruptcy, the Federal Government losses all that money anyway since they held the overwhelming majority of Student Loan Debt. How about the Federal Government forgives the debt and this prevents anybody from having to take the hit of bankruptcy? In either proposed scenario, the Federal Government is going to take a loss, so why not pick the option that helps students at least?

 

[Zachowon]

Here's an idea of the costs for an H1B. For reference, just the $4,000 fee is about the cost of three semesters of Community College.

4 grand for three semesters? How many classes is that a semester? One? Then yes. More then one? HELL NO. It cost me 3 grand for 2 classes at a community college...A single semester

 

[History Learner]

4 grand for three semesters? How many classes is that a semester? One? Then yes. More then one? HELL NO. It cost me 3 grand for 2 classes at a community college...A single semester

Not sure of what State you're in, but I was averaging about $1,200-1,500 for 12 Credit Hours (Four Classes) per semester at mine. Even at all three local four year schools, you can take 12 Credit Hours for about $4,500; including fees pushes it up to around 5k.

 

[Zachowon]

Not sure of what State you're in, but I was averaging about $1,200-1,500 for 12 Credit Hours (Four Classes) per semester at mine. Even at all three local four year schools, you can take 12 Credit Hours for about $4,500; including fees pushes it up to around 5k.

I am from GA. Then again now I get things free because I am military, but it all depends on the state, and the type of class it is as well.
People also do focus on what schools they want to get people form, unless you have experience added onto it, most would rather have someone from a larger more well known school then a community college.

 

[Rocinante]

Can you explain what you mean more? I'm confused what you're attempting to argue for or against here.



Like I said upthread though, it's really a question of why do this? If they take bankruptcy, the Federal Government losses all that money anyway since they held the overwhelming majority of Student Loan Debt. How about the Federal Government forgives the debt and this prevents anybody from having to take the hit of bankruptcy? In either proposed scenario, the Federal Government is going to take a loss, so why not pick the option that helps students at least?

I'm kind of on the side of "neither one," rather than one or the other.

I was saying up thread that allowing bankruptcy on student loans will never happen because too many people would choose to file bankruptcy. I use myself as an example. I probably would. This is not a good thing.

See, I can pay it. I made the decision to take on that debt, and I can pay it. It would be nice to not have to, and I'd jump on the chance, and so would lots of other people. That's why it isn't a viable option.

Neither is outright loan forgiveness.

Now, I am okay with programs to make it more affordable. Maybe some companies won't make as much, but it's a middle ground. Right now there's a decent program that matches your payments to a percentage of your income. That's not a bad compromise. You might even end up paying less than your interest, causing the loan to continually grow, but there's a compromise of a forgiveness program too, where after 20 years of payments, the remainder is forgiven. So you could make affordable payments for 20 years, and then the loan is gone, even if it actually grew in size during those years.

So it's not a total loss to the loan companies, the government, or the schools, and it's not that terrible on the loan receiver either.

I'm open to tweaks and changes. I'm also open to ideas to lower tuition and prevent future generations from picking up this kind of insane debt. But outright forgiveness or allowing massive waves of bankruptcy go too far.

 

[History Learner]

I am from GA. Then again now I get things free because I am military, but it all depends on the state, and the type of class it is as well.
People also do focus on what schools they want to get people form, unless you have experience added onto it, most would rather have someone from a larger more well known school then a community college.

Found this about CCs: Tuition at community colleges is $3,660 a year on average

If the concern of hypothetical employers is place of education vs skills set, hiring immigrants doesn't make much sense as a strategy; It's highly unlikely they will have attended UTK or Harvard.

 

[Zachowon]

Found this about CCs: Tuition at community colleges is $3,660 a year on average

If the concern of hypothetical employers is place of education vs skills set, hiring immigrants doesn't make much sense as a strategy; It's highly unlikely they will have attended UTK or Harvard.

I do not know what they were hiring so I can not tell you what they were looking for.
This is off topic for the thread though. My main thing is H1Bs are useful in specific cases and should be refined to be more speficic