student loan, tuition, H-1B and debt forgiveness thread

[Chaos Marine]

You don't have to raise taxes because the Federal Government currently offers $57,500 total in maximum federal student loans; in other words, if you have said debt, the Federal Government is already in debt too because of it. To get an idea of what I mean, if you took $50,000 in debt to get a Bachelor's Degree from 2016-2020, the Federal Government is already in debt for that amount because the borrower has yet to pay them back. Such a cancellation would be the Government forgoing repayment for existing debt, not issuing new amounts of it.

Is that why there's an insane collective student debt? Nah, colleges and universities are charging out the wazoo for nonsense courses like gender studies and other made up gobbledegook.

As for the minimum wage, the CBO looked at it and found it would, in an absolute worst case cause 1.3 Million job cuts. That certainly sounds bad but, it would also boost the living standards of 17 Million people. Right now is the perfect time to do this because the taxation levels on businesses are low and once the economy starts to heat up again, we will return to the situation we had before of having too many job openings but not enough workers. By boosting the purchasing power of 17 Million people, that would encourage more consumption and thus more production, meaning more jobs too.

Eh, I suppose you're right. Fuck the poors. Those 1.3 million people working those jobs didn't deserve them either. They should have gotten better jobs.

Having too many jobs and not enough workers though is desirable. That's what society should be aiming towards. Why? Because companies will be looking for people and they'll naturally offer higher wages. If they can't, there's still automation. Hell, it would be a good reason to increase the rate of legal immigration.

There's still that severe issue of killing off small businesses though. The only ones left would be either franchises or large corporations who'd be able to weather the increased cost.

 

[Terthna]

Is that why there's an insane collective student debt? Nah, colleges and universities are charging out the wazoo for nonsense courses like gender studies and other made up gobbledegook.

Eh, I suppose you're right. Fuck the poors. Those 1.3 million people working those jobs didn't deserve them either. They should have gotten better jobs.

Having too many jobs and not enough workers though is desirable. That's what society should be aiming towards. Why? Because companies will be looking for people and they'll naturally offer higher wages. If they can't, there's still automation. Hell, it would be a good reason to increase the rate of legal immigration.

There's still that severe issue of killing off small businesses though. The only ones left would be either franchises or large corporations who'd be able to weather the increased cost.

Here's the problem; there will only ever be less jobs going forward, never more. Automation is getting cheaper, and more capable, every year; so one day, it won't matter how little someone is willing to work for. Even now, people who supposedly work for a living on the lower end of the wage spectrum also rely on government handouts to survive. Your tax dollars are literally going towards subsidizing the existence of jobs that otherwise wouldn't, shouldn't, exist.

 

[Zachowon]

Eh, retail one can love off of if they are willing to work hard for it every day.

There will always be on place people can go if they need money. The military is always hiring and needs new people all the time.

 

[Hlaalu Agent]

Eh, retail one can love off of if they are willing to work hard for it every day.

There will always be on place people can go if they need money. The military is always hiring and needs new people all the time.

Hmm, maybe I can try for my own homeland's military, probably got a desk job for me somewhere. Heck, I might end up part of the same sort of sausage operation as you.

 

[History Learner]

Is that why there's an insane collective student debt? Nah, colleges and universities are charging out the wazoo for nonsense courses like gender studies and other made up gobbledegook.

Universities raising prices is an issue concerning future debt, but the existing one was at past prices. If you got your degree in the hypothetical 2016-2020 timeframe, prices this fall didn't matter to you because you graduated. Federal Student Loans are also issued at fixed rates by the Federal Government itself, not the University.

Eh, I suppose you're right. Fuck the poors. Those 1.3 million people working those jobs didn't deserve them either. They should have gotten better jobs.

Having too many jobs and not enough workers though is desirable. That's what society should be aiming towards. Why? Because companies will be looking for people and they'll naturally offer higher wages. If they can't, there's still automation. Hell, it would be a good reason to increase the rate of legal immigration.

There's still that severe issue of killing off small businesses though. The only ones left would be either franchises or large corporations who'd be able to weather the increased cost.

Okay, for one, automation doesn't lead to job loss. I know that's in-vogue in many newsrooms for click bait, but most economists looking at the data don't see support for it. For a very good real world example, see Bank Tellers/ATMs:

Second example: When ATMs were introduced to banks in the 1980s, people thought bank tellers would quickly stop existing. Over time, each bank branch did end up employing fewer tellers. However, ATMs made it cheaper to operate bank branches, so more bank branches opened and there were eventually more bank teller jobs overall, as shown here.​

​

With regards specifically to the minimum wage hike:

Raising the federal minimum wage to $15 an hour by 2025 would increase the pay of at least 17 million people, but also put 1.3 million Americans out of work, according to a study by the Congressional Budget Office released on Monday.​

​

The increased federal minimum could also raise the wages of another 10 million workers and lift 1.3 million Americans out of poverty, according to the nonpartisan CBO. The current federal minimum wage is $7.25 and last increased a decade ago.​

You would be eliminating 1.3 Million jobs...but also lifting 1.3 Million out of poverty while overall helping 10 million. Which is the better Anti-Poverty metric? As for the matter of small business, that's a bit of double standard. You said that they can't afford it, but then acknowledge that the high rate of job openings in theory encourages businesses to offer higher wages; since said small businesses can't afford to offer the wages, that means they'll still get out-competed, no?

 

[Zachowon]

Hmm, maybe I can try for my own homeland's military, probably got a desk job for me somewhere. Heck, I might end up part of the same sort of sausage operation as you.

Where you from again? England? I hear you have to basically do an interview for your job there.
Join your military and get a simple HR job or something simple. Plenty of paper pushing jobs in the military

 

[Hlaalu Agent]

Where you from again? England? I hear you have to basically do an interview for your job there.
Join your military and get a simple HR job or something simple. Plenty of paper pushing jobs in the military

No, I am Canadian and partly of old stock as well. I can actually claim to have old stock USA ancestry.

 

[Zachowon]

No, I am Canadian and partly of old stock as well. I can actually claim to have old stock USA ancestry.

Old stock?
I do not know what that is? And if you are Canadian, definitely join your military i talked woth a guy who is and he told me you basically act as out NG does as well as a federal military

 

[Doomsought]

You don't have to raise taxes because the Federal Government currently offers $57,500 total in maximum federal student loans; in other words, if you have said debt, the Federal Government is already in debt too because of it. To get an idea of what I mean, if you took $50,000 in debt to get a Bachelor's Degree from 2016-2020, the Federal Government is already in debt for that amount because the borrower has yet to pay them back. Such a cancellation would be the Government forgoing repayment for existing debt, not issuing new amounts of it.

The obvious solution would to be to just renege on the dept by repealing the federal guarantee and permitting ex-students to declare bankruptcy on student loans. This will also solve the college corruption problem by emptying out their pocketbooks.


Also, never use poverty statistics. The poverty level is an arbitrary value that is constantly rising. There will always be the same proportion of society in poverty because it is just the level of wealth of the lowest strata of society that is not too crippled to live on their own means. It it better to look at what level of wealth people in poverty have in absolute terms.

 

[Rocinante]

The obvious solution would to be to just renege on the dept by repealing the federal guarantee and permitting ex-students to declare bankruptcy on student loans. This will also solve the college corruption problem by emptying out their pocketbooks.

Will never happen. Too many people will decide that taking a credit hit for a few years is better than paying shit off for the next 20 years

 

[Doomsought]

Will never happen. Too many people will decide that taking a credit hit for a few years is better than paying shit off for the next 20 years

That is the goal.

 

[History Learner]

The obvious solution would to be to just renege on the dept by repealing the federal guarantee and permitting ex-students to declare bankruptcy on student loans. This will also solve the college corruption problem by emptying out their pocketbooks.

At the cost of ruining their credit, which will follow them till the day they die and seriously effect their ability to buy homes, cars, and other necessities of modern life. Removing the Federal Guarantee also only works on future loans, not standing debt; it's a legal contract on the outstanding amount.

Also, never use poverty statistics. The poverty level is an arbitrary value that is constantly rising. There will always be the same proportion of society in poverty because it is just the level of wealth of the lowest strata of society that is not too crippled to live on their own means. It it better to look at what level of wealth people in poverty have in absolute terms.

Either way, it would materially improve the conditions of far more people than it would harm.

 

[Cherico]

At the cost of ruining their credit, which will follow them till the day they die and seriously effect their ability to buy homes, cars, and other necessities of modern life. Removing the Federal Guarantee also only works on future loans, not standing debt; it's a legal contract on the outstanding amount.



Either way, it would materially improve the conditions of far more people than it would harm.

I've known plenty of people who have been through bankruptcy, you fuck your credit for a few years but its a hole you can drag yourself out of.

 

[History Learner]

I've known plenty of people who have been through bankruptcy, you fuck your credit for a few years but its a hole you can drag yourself out of.

Bankruptcy doesn't erase the history of your past debts; you may qualify for new ones down the line (average after 2008 IIRC was 10 years) but that history marks you as risk. Your former creditors may not be able to collect, but new ones can hold it against you, refusing loans or charging much higher interests.

Also, as a general note, why would we want to do this? If Student Loan holders declare bankruptcy on their student debt, the Federal Government will be taking the hit since it won't get repaid at all. If the Federal Government and taxpayers are going to take a hit either way, why not do it in a manner that directly benefits students?

 

[Scottty]

At the cost of ruining their credit, which will follow them till the day they die and seriously effect their ability to buy homes, cars, and other necessities of modern life. Removing the Federal Guarantee also only works on future loans, not standing debt; it's a legal contract on the outstanding amount.

And all of that can go "poof" into nonexistence if the government passes laws declaring that the debts don't exist anymore, and starts putting bankers in jail if they don't comply.

 

[History Learner]

And all of that can go "poof" into nonexistence if the government passes laws declaring that the debts don't exist anymore, and starts putting bankers in jail if they don't comply.

$1.5 Trillion in Student Loan debt is held by the Federal Government, while only $119 Billion is held by private lenders. The Federal Government could decide tomorrow to forgive its holdings of debt and that's it as an issue; private sources won't be able at all to hold it against them because the debt is forgiven.

 

[History Learner]

All I know about him is that he's tough on immigration and pro voter ID.

Which makes him seem viable to me.

I'm not anti immigration by any means, but I am STRONGLY anti illegal immigration, so that's a plus for him.

I'm in favor of a total moratorium on immigration, both legal and illegal, as well as stringent enforcement policy. Revoke H1Bs, repeal DACA, etc.

 

[Zachowon]

I'm in favor of a total moratorium on immigration, both legal and illegal, as well as stringent enforcement policy. Revoke H1Bs, repeal DACA, etc.

EH, I am against THAT strict of things. Having talked to students from Korea who have had to come and serve their constription her in Korea, allowing them to come in as students and work, as well as have the ability to get a visa and perhaps even citizenship through being an Immigrant is great.

Being super strict I disagree on, but cracking down on illegal immigration, as well as making it more strict for normal immigration

 

[Rocinante]

I'm in favor of a total moratorium on immigration, both legal and illegal, as well as stringent enforcement policy. Revoke H1Bs, repeal DACA, etc.

I would not have expected this out of you considering many of your posts I have seen around here.

I took you for quite the lefty. I would have expected you'd be touting open borders or some lunacy like that.

I guess that's what I get for assuming.

 

[Lord Sovereign]

From the British experience of recent immigration, I'd be in agreement with the moratorium (at least temporarily) because this has gotten completely out of hand here now. And when that moratorium is lifted, immigration needs to be kept in the lower tens of thousands. That's not net by the way, that's overall.