Culture The Downfall of New Atheism

almostinsane

Well-known member
“Sin” or “Evil” can to a degree be explained with science

But it’ll get extremely “offensive” by then somehow

We’re still “animals” or not too far or different from our instinctual caveman ancestors

We still have obsessions with hoarding, our bodies are addicted to food & sex because millennia ago we couldn’t tell when we would have our next meal and we needed to reproduce to keep the species alive, men & women being jealous was to keep having mates, our being lazy was because we needed all the rest we could get etc

Our instincts needed to be tempered by reason, which eventually resulted in stuff like religion’s idea of “virtues”, because without “virtues” we would be wild, stupid, crazy animals in the most unnatural mutation to ever exist

CIVILIZATION
Carl, the morals and values you take for granted don't solely come from reason. They came from Christian civilization. It is impossible to remove Christianity from the development of human rights and individual liberty. The concept of every individual being of immense value came about only through Christianity. Every other society took/takes the view that some are more equal than others.

Nor is mercy as you know it a universal concept. Vengeance or reciprocal eye for an eye is human instinct and is not cooled by mere reason. You might not like it, but anyone who has liberty and has been treated with mercy has Christianity to thank for it.
 

S'task

Renegade Philosopher
Administrator
Staff Member
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Maybe. Before he nuked his blog, Scott Alexander at Slate Star Codex had a theory that New Atheism failed because it was a failed harmatiology. It couldn't explain the nature of sin.

New Atheism, as far as I could tell, couldn't give an honest answer as to the nature of sin. It's main argument was that you didn't need God to be a good person, and the only reason why people did evil stuff was because religion made them stupid and irrational.

As religion faded from the public sphere, this explanation became untenable. Sure, it was baloney to begin with, but it was no longer possible for the average person to correlate bad behavior with religion. They could see this same behavior coming from people who had nothing to do with organized religion. Sin exists, and people need a reason why it exists, so many of them went looking for that answer.
That may be part of it, but the thing is the "sin" that they blamed on religion, if you actually studied history and looked at the recent past, was never actually pushed by religion. The main force blaming religion for those evils was not the New Atheists, after all the "evil Christian Crusades" idea long predates the New Atheist movement, to use but one example. Or, to look at more recent items, given that a lot of New Atheists were Millennial Geeks and Nerds, they often blamed the Dungeon and Dragons Moral Panic of the 1980s (bear in mind, that means none of the them were old enough to really know what was going on at the time), which as I've shown elsewhere here was not actually driven by the religious but rather very much by the mainstream media, who later on changed their tune about it all and in turn blamed the conservative Christians in order to weaken them politically.

In short, New Atheists failed to address the problem of evil, but the reason they even began down the path of thinking of Religion as the source of evil had, in large part, to do with the fact the left had been waging a culture war against traditional religious values since at least the 1960s, while the intellectual elites had been railing against it since the Romantic Movement of the 19th century at LEAST. In short, New Atheists were merely the most recent shock troops against religion and when they had served their purpose, they were abandoned. They didn't create any of the narratives regarding religion they espoused, nor were any of their criticisms of religion, especially Christianity, anything new. They were just fed a narrative, turned into drones in the leftist nigh constant war against Christianity, and then when their use was at an end, those who had their "My God, what have we done" moment were discarded as to dangerous to keep around, while the rest were fed a new narrative.
 
Dungeon and Dragons Moral Panic of the 1980s (bear in mind, that means none of the them were old enough to really know what was going on at the time), which as I've shown elsewhere here was not actually driven by the religious but rather very much by the mainstream media, who later on changed their tune about it all and in turn blamed the conservative Christians in order to weaken them politically.


Honestly The Satanist panic was one of those things you can put in the big book of "Things that never happened but the media decided to run with it cause if it spreads fear it sells." It also didn't help that big government had essentially tried to weaponize the church by propping and supporting mega churches.
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
Honestly The Satanist panic was one of those things you can put in the big book of "Things that never happened but the media decided to run with it cause if it spreads fear it sells." It also didn't help that big government had essentially tried to weaponize the church by propping and supporting mega churches.

I can see the Big Government weaponizing the Mosque in Europe soon
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
You think they will become like the Middle East? How so?

Probably worse off than the Middle East, but simply put I can see fanaticism and fundamentalism or sheer zeal attracting all the local atheists and local Judea-christian types to them, both because they lack any devotion, not even to themselves, but want a "God" or "philosopher king" and wanna be a "minority"
 

Fleiur

Well-known member
Probably worse off than the Middle East, but simply put I can see fanaticism and fundamentalism or sheer zeal attracting all the local atheists and local Judea-christian types to them, both because they lack any devotion, not even to themselves, but want a "God" or "philosopher king" and wanna be a "minority"
So you think they will be forced by their government to become Muslims? Like their constitution will be changed and separation of church and the state will be removed?
You know that Muslims believe in God too, right?
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
So you think they will be forced by their government to become Muslims? Like their constitution will be changed and separation of church and the state will be removed?
You know that Muslims believe in God too, right?

Force? No, it will all be gradual, people will convert to show themselves “better” and eventually the european governments change and go on about white supremacy being prevalent

And eventually the remaining heretics are made to convert and/or pay a tax

It may take nearly a lifetime for the change to occur
 

Lanmandragon

Well-known member
So you think they will be forced by their government to become Muslims? Like their constitution will be changed and separation of church and the state will be removed?
You know that Muslims believe in God too, right?
Yes they likley will they've done it before by taxing non Muslims. Even leaving that aside you can count on them bullying and attacking non-muslims. With the full protection and backing off the law. Keep in mind Islamhas been continuouslyattempting to conquer Christendom. For 1,400 years the Euros letting them in is islams wet dream.
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
Yes they likley will they've done it before by taxing non Muslims. Even leaving that aside you can count on them bullying and attacking non-muslims. With the full protection and backing off the law. Keep in mind Islamhas been continuouslyattempting to conquer Christendom. For 1,400 years the Euros letting them in is islams wet dream.

I expect them to end up trying to bully guys like Jainists or Buddhists soon alongside much of East Asia, also

They were already in conflict with the Hindus and exterminated and/or converted most of Zoroaster’s followers
 

Fleiur

Well-known member
No

But as said by someone else here before, Europeans aren’t necessarily the sheep we think of them as being

So, all that insanity would just require decades of bootlicking and attempts at lionizing and making apologies for the
All that effort to convert them to a rigid religion where they are far more primed for atheistic communism?
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
All that effort to convert them to a rigid religion where they are far more primed for atheistic communism?

That rigid religion will be harder to rebel within than the latter, especially when it gradually combines with said communist states

These guys don’t truly disbelieve in God or actually believe in science

They just want to tell “the man” off and converting to Islam would be telling off “the man” who surprisingly enough wasn’t so oppressive to begin with
 

Fleiur

Well-known member
That rigid religion will be harder to rebel within than the latter, especially when it gradually combines with said communist states

These guys don’t truly disbelieve in God or actually believe in science

They just want to tell “the man” off and converting to Islam would be telling off “the man” who surprisingly enough wasn’t so oppressive to begin with
So they don't believe in God, but really they do? And they want to rebel, but will convert to the most conformist religion there is? You think European will give up their hedonism?
 

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