Fallout The Eagle And The Bear [Fallout AU]

[CarlManvers2019]

This is the Enclave with Pre-War and Institute tech. Their high morals are skin deep at best.

They could have dozens of totally under cover Black Widow like spies that would have kids and carry out decade long deep cover missions.

Honestly from what we have seen I would not be surprised if the Enclave Secret Service has things like a Red Room or a spy ring like in the Show The Americans.

I’m guessing after the stuff with the NCR is over a divorce is optional

 

[Argent]

I’m guessing after the stuff with the NCR is over a divorce is optional

You mean that the Enclave is going to let a former enemy spy work unsupervised at a major press outlet?

No he is going to be under surveillance the rest of his life. It doesn't matter if the NCR is gone or not. The Enclave is not going to take the chance to have their own press truned against them. So unless they need her else where I doubt that her job will end any time soon.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

You mean that the Enclave is going to let a former enemy spy work unsupervised at a major press outlet?

No he is going to be under surveillance the rest of his life. It doesn't matter if the NCR is gone or not. The Enclave is not going to take the chance to have their own press truned against them. So unless they need her else where I doubt that her job will end any time soon.

Good point, though I expect him to commit suicide at some point, knowing their marriage was/is built on a lie for decades and constantly asking the question if it was a real marriage

 

[Ihopethisworks]

Yeah that guy (John Ellis I think his name was) is stuck between a rock and a hard place, living in constant guilt and self loathing.

The question remains though: how was the Enclave so effective at counter intelligence? Because the prewar government was shit at it (the Chinese Stealth Suit at Hoover Dam, Mama Dolce’s, Point Lookout) and the US government during the IRL Cold War was shit at it too.

 

[TyrantTriumphant]

Good point, though I expect him to commit suicide at some point, knowing their marriage was/is built on a lie for decades and constantly asking the question if it was a real marriage

The marriage may be fake but the children are real. It could be worse.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

The marriage may be fake but the children are real. It could be worse.

Are they really? Or are they just synthsv

 

[SuperHeavy]

The question remains though: how was the Enclave so effective at counter intelligence? Because the prewar government was shit at it (the Chinese Stealth Suit at Hoover Dam, Mama Dolce’s, Point Lookout) and the US government during the IRL Cold War was shit at it too.

The NCR has basically no experience either, they have machines that can read minds and brainwash people, take your pick really. Not to mention the Chinese had decades against a nation that was crumbling socially in the face of unregulated capitalism and political corruption.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

The NCR has basically no experience either, they have machines that can read minds and brainwash people, take your pick really. Not to mention the Chinese had decades against a nation that was crumbling socially in the face of unregulated capitalism and political corruption.

Don’t forget the insane super science

Vault Tech sounds more like it was ran by sadists than guys who just wanted more cash

 

[Ihopethisworks]

Don’t forget the insane super science

Vault Tech sounds more like it was ran by sadists than guys who just wanted more cash

So just every other corporation in human history?

 

[CarlManvers2019]

So just every other corporation in human history?

The moment you risk or treat your customer with little care is the moment that really shows how far you've gone, even shows your confidence in your own power

Like seriously, nuclear powered cars that can blow up and nuclear soft drinks? Suicide

 

[Jarow]

For intelligence, basically everyone lost their intelligence departments after the nukes went everywhere. Before actual nations started forming again, one group decided to focus on it: The Institute (well, the Railroad too, as they were the Institute's main opponent).They've been absorbed into E-USA now, meaning they now have any documentation describing how things work, technology to do... basically whatever they want, and actual living memory experience of intelligence operations. This definitely should give them a pretty large advantage.

Add in that the NCR is sending in agents with false beliefs, and you get agents completely unprepared, and therefore easier to identify and turn, going up against a prepared, trained, and competent opponent. As we see, it doesn't work out well for the NCR.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

So wait, are all NCR Agents into Enclave territory male?

 

[SuperHeavy]

So wait, are all NCR Agents into Enclave territory male?

Honey traps work both ways and threats are a universal language.

 

[Crow gotta eat]

So wait, are all NCR Agents into Enclave territory male?

Here is a list of all the things that were done to flip NCR agents. Not all were honeytrapped. Some were just given some good old bribes or threats. And a few others forcibly had their minds... changed.

And now he was living here, a reporter for a privately-owned newspaper – and head of a major spy ring operating on the East Coast. None of which worked for the NCR any more. He had helped the FBI turn every NCR agent sent to work under him. Some were bribed, others blackmailed, seduced, or outright threatened. Those who he’d identified as the most unlikely to turn coat were black-bagged and sent to the Panopticon Building in DC. They went out a few days later, zealousness for the NCR cause transformed into its counterpart for the (Enclave? American? He wasn’t sure) cause.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

Here is a list of all the things that were done to flip NCR agents. Not all were honeytrapped. Some were just given some good old bribes or threats. And a few others forcibly had their minds... changed.

I guess the dude getting black widowed was lucky NOT to be super-loyal to the NCR

That said, bribes? Just how much money is being used on them?

 

[Navarro]

For intelligence, basically everyone lost their intelligence departments after the nukes went everywhere. Before actual nations started forming again, one group decided to focus on it: The Institute (well, the Railroad too, as they were the Institute's main opponent).They've been absorbed into E-USA now, meaning they now have any documentation describing how things work, technology to do... basically whatever they want, and actual living memory experience of intelligence operations. This definitely should give them a pretty large advantage.

Add in that the NCR is sending in agents with false beliefs, and you get agents completely unprepared, and therefore easier to identify and turn, going up against a prepared, trained, and competent opponent. As we see, it doesn't work out well for the NCR.

You think the US Gov. needed to relearn the theoretical elements of spycraft from the Institute?

This is the Enclave with Pre-War and Institute tech. Their high morals are skin deep at best.

Not in an absolute sense - but they are dealing with a critical issue of state survival, which tends to make high-minded moral concerns look less important. Do you think the NCR hasn't made, isn't going to make, its own compromises in that regard?

Thinking of this as a war of Absolute Good vs Absolute Evil is a fallacy, and the people who believe that in-universe are suffering for it.

They could have dozens of totally under cover Black Widow like spies that would have kids and carry out decade long deep cover missions.

No. They've focussed more on SIGINT than HUMINT, but they certainly have activities going on near the NCR.

Honestly from what we have seen I would not be surprised if the Enclave Secert Servcie has things like a Red Room or a spy ring like in the Show The Americans.

The whole situation with poor Mr. Ellis was inspired by that show, but in a counter-intelligence direction (it also lets me have a pro-NCR PoV near the heart of American power).

A 'Red Room' from Marvel comics? No, you don't need to train agents from childhood to be effective.

And the Secret Service has relatively little to do with intel ops - they're more of the President's (small, to the point it would be totally overpowered by the regular military) private army.

 

[Jarow]

You think the US Gov. needed to relearn the theoretical elements of spycraft from the Institute?

Sorry if I phrased that terribly, was trying to say they have theoretical knowledge from their records, and practical experience from the Institute (and possibly Railroad, don't remember what happened with them). The latter is something most nations don't have/are currently building, and the former is still something EUSA has an advantage in over most other nations.

On the other hand, most of my Fallout knowledge is from New Vegas and 4, so I could be making some incorrect assumptions about how the Enclave functioned too.

 

[Argent]

Sorry if I phrased that terribly, was trying to say they have theoretical knowledge from their records, and practical experience from the Institute (and possibly Railroad, don't remember what happened with them). The latter is something most nations don't have/are currently building, and the former is still something EUSA has an advantage in over most other nations.

On the other hand, most of my Fallout knowledge is from New Vegas and 4, so I could be making some incorrect assumptions about how the Enclave functioned too.

The Enclave is at least decent at covert operations in Fallout 2. They manage to do most of their actions unknown to the general wasteland being a rumor for most of the game.


But for long spy games it just takes a certain ruthlessness in a goverment and devotion in their agents.

Also I imagine that spy games in the Wastland is a lit easier then trying to enter full functional police states that formed durning the Pre-war years.

Do you think the NCR hasn't made, isn't going to make, its own compromises in that regard?

Oh yes the Enclave and the NCR both have made moral comprises. The NCR is the stereotypical Glided Age Industrial Revolution goverment. While the Enclave is the stereotypical media version of an evil post WWII 1950s goverment.

The thing is that while not much different now and both facing problems the starting point is very different. The NCR has fallen from their ideals while the Enclave is busy hiding out they started out as a genocidal cult.

So they come off different especially with the amount of historical with washing they have done makes me skeptical of any actions they have taken.

 

[Navarro]

The thing is that while not much different now and both facing problems the starting point is very different. The NCR has fallen from their ideals while the Enclave is busy hiding out they started out as a genocidal cult.

They're not hiding anything any more.

 

[Duke Nukem]

They're not hiding anything any more.

Yeah, there's no one alive in the Enclave that remembers that was true.