Things get worse in The Southwest

[Bigking321]

It's also worth noting planned parenthood was founded by someone that favored eugenics and explicitly wanted to cull minority populations.

If you look at their records of what groups use planned parenthood the most and where they promote it the most they have succeeded admirably at their horrifically racist goal.

 

[LordsFire]

Are you against people choosing sperm/egg donors based on desirable traits of theirs? Because that's also a form of eugenics. People don't just select sperm/egg donors randomly, after all. Maybe we should prohibit people from finding out any information about sperm/egg donors that could have a eugenic effect, such as their intelligence/IQ, level of education, criminal record, et cetera?

Who gets to choose is the crux.

The answer is that each individual gets to choose. It's their own body, their own life, and children are their own responsibility.

The government getting involved with things like this always goes wrong. Always.

Further, while IQ/raw intelligence does have a definite genetic component, things like laziness vs diligence, foolishness vs wisdom, etc, are not genetic. They're hereditary to some degree in that we learn a lot from our parents, but there is no gene that makes a person 'lazy' or 'not lazy.'

Further still, any time you start passing responsibility for something on to the government, you're explicitly shifting responsibility away from actual people, and thus encouraging irresponsibility, which works directly against any attempt to push society at large towards being more responsible, healthy, and productive.

The best solution is to try to champion virtues culturally, rather than enforce them politically. There's an entire thesis worth of discussion on the philosophical and psychological reasons for this, but I don't want to derail the thread completely on that.

 

[ShadowArxxy]

The only case in which American courts handed down any Constitutional restriction on eugenics was it was ruled unconstitutional to make forcible sterilization a criminal penalty for blue-collar crimes while exempting white-collar crimes, and even that ruling explicitly stated that forcible sterilization was perfectly Constitutional as long as it was equally applied.

 

[Typhonis]

So...how does this all help with California sinking faster than Bidens Approval rating?

 

[ShadowArxxy]

It's also worth noting planned parenthood was founded by someone that favored eugenics and explicitly wanted to cull minority populations.

The founder of Planned Parenthood was Margaret Sanger. However, the commonly circulated picture of her speaking at a KKK rally is a photoshopped fake, and the quote that is often cited to "show" that she was in favor of exterminating minorities is extremely misleading. The full quote is:

"The minister’s work is also important and he should be trained, perhaps by the Federation as to our ideals and the goal that we hope to reach. We do not want word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members."

This quote comes from a 1939 letter from Sanger to a colleague named Clarence James Gamble, laying out her belief that promoting birth control among black women in the South would require the participation of a black physician and a black minister in order to gain the trust of the community. The full quote and context makes it clear that this is something Sanger is concerned may be spread against the idea, not something she's admitting is her actual goal.

Another relevant piece of evidence is that in her 1919 essay "Birth Control and Racial Betterment", Sanger drew what she saw as a critical distinction between birth control advocates and eugenics advocates:

"We who advocate Birth Control, on the other hand, lay all our emphasis upon stopping not only the reproduction of the unfit but upon stopping all reproduction when there is not economic means of providing proper care for those who are born in health. The eugenist also believes that a woman should bear as many healthy children as possible as a duty to the state.

We maintain that a woman possessing an adequate knowledge of her reproductive functions is the best judge of the time and conditions under which her child should be brought into the world. We further maintain that it is her right, regardless of all other considerations, to determine whether she shall bear children or not, and how many children she shall bear if she chooses to become a mother.

In other words, Sanger points out that actual eugenics requires that the breeding of the unfit be suppressed and the breeding of the fit encouraged or even mandated, whereas birth control promotes a healthier population among all groups by enabling for births to be limited to planned, optimized conditions. Whether or not you agree with her that this is in fact desirable, she is factually correct in pointing out that the two philosophies are distinct.

 

[WolfBear]

The only case in which American courts handed down any Constitutional restriction on eugenics was it was ruled unconstitutional to make forcible sterilization a criminal penalty for blue-collar crimes while exempting white-collar crimes, and even that ruling explicitly stated that forcible sterilization was perfectly Constitutional as long as it was equally applied.

FWIW, I certainly wasn't talking about forced sterilization here. Voluntary sterilization, sure--as well as voluntary long-term usage of long-acting reversible contraceptives (LARCs).

The founder of Planned Parenthood was Margaret Sanger. However, the commonly circulated picture of her speaking at a KKK rally is a photoshopped fake, and the quote that is often cited to "show" that she was in favor of exterminating minorities is extremely misleading. The full quote is:



This quote comes from a 1939 letter from Sanger to a colleague named Clarence James Gamble, laying out her belief that promoting birth control among black women in the South would require the participation of a black physician and a black minister in order to gain the trust of the community. The full quote and context makes it clear that this is something Sanger is concerned may be spread against the idea, not something she's admitting is her actual goal.

Another relevant piece of evidence is that in her 1919 essay "Birth Control and Racial Betterment", Sanger drew what she saw as a critical distinction between birth control advocates and eugenics advocates:



In other words, Sanger points out that actual eugenics requires that the breeding of the unfit be suppressed and the breeding of the fit encouraged or even mandated, whereas birth control promotes a healthier population among all groups by enabling for births to be limited to planned, optimized conditions. Whether or not you agree with her that this is in fact desirable, she is factually correct in pointing out that the two philosophies are distinct.

Didn't Sanger also believe that the intelligence of rich people's children would be reduced if rich people had too many children? Of course, we now know that this is not the case and that this trade-off does not exist, thankfully!

So...how does this all help with California sinking faster than Bidens Approval rating?

A smarter California would also mean a wealthier and more capable California.

Who gets to choose is the crux.

The answer is that each individual gets to choose. It's their own body, their own life, and children are their own responsibility.

The government getting involved with things like this always goes wrong. Always.

Further, while IQ/raw intelligence does have a definite genetic component, things like laziness vs diligence, foolishness vs wisdom, etc, are not genetic. They're hereditary to some degree in that we learn a lot from our parents, but there is no gene that makes a person 'lazy' or 'not lazy.'

Further still, any time you start passing responsibility for something on to the government, you're explicitly shifting responsibility away from actual people, and thus encouraging irresponsibility, which works directly against any attempt to push society at large towards being more responsible, healthy, and productive.

The best solution is to try to champion virtues culturally, rather than enforce them politically. There's an entire thesis worth of discussion on the philosophical and psychological reasons for this, but I don't want to derail the thread completely on that.

FWIW, many traits, such as intelligence, are highly polygenic rather than based on a single gene. And irresponsibility might also itself be partly based on one's genes, possibly likewise highly polygenic. So, some people really are wired to be more irresponsible than others.

I do agree with a cultural change in regards to this, but I do fear the limits of what simple cultural changes can achieve in regards to this. I mean, we already have a problem with dysgenic fertility in the US right now:

Contemporary Racial Divergence in Genotypic IQ

This post is about the degree to which racial groups are currently evolving apart with respect to genotypic intelligence and how this degree of contemporary divergence should inform debates about t…

ideasanddata.wordpress.com

This problem is especially severe for blacks and Hispanics, but it affects all US racial and ethnic groups to some degree/extent. If you can fix the dysgenic problem through cultural changes alone, then by all means, please be my guest here!

 

[ShadowArxxy]

Didn't Sanger also believe that the intelligence of rich people's children would be reduced if rich people had too many children? Of course, we now know that this is not the case and that this trade-off does not exist, thankfully!

Sanger's philosophy divided society into three groups: the "educated and informed" class that already regulated the size of their families, the "intelligent and responsible" who merely lacked the means or knowledge to do so, and the "irresponsible and reckless" who didn't. She did not *explicitly* relate these groups to race, but argued that the rich and successful almost invariably fell into the "educated and informed" class while the poor and miserable overwhelmingly fell into the "irresponsible and reckless".

If you look at her record as a whole, Sanger was not an outspoken racist, but she was entirely willing to work with those who were, even violent groups like the KKK. She raised little objection to people reformulating her ideas along racial lines as long as they were supporting her cause, and herself often framed education and availability of birth control as "racial betterment", albiet more in the sense of "enabling people of every race to better themselves and their community".

And while she drew a distinction between "birth control" and "eugenics" as political movements, her arguments for birth control were *entirely* drawn from eugenics; by her own quote that I cited earlier, she saw the distinction as whether or not women of good status had an obligation to breed. In practical terms, it would be entirely fair to say that she was philosophically a eugenicist, just not politically.

 

[Bacle]

I smell 2nd Amendment lawsuites incoming. There is no 'subject to taxation for ownership' provision to the 2A.

 

[Cherico]

I smell 2nd Amendment lawsuites incoming. There is no 'subject to taxation for ownership' provision to the 2A.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.


-what is it about the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed that these people do not understand.

 

[Bigking321]

The part where it says they can't do whatever they want.

They only care about those parts when they aren't in control.

 

[Husky_Khan]

A reporter shared a montage of pictures of how empty San Francisco streets are on a Weekday morning... with a final flurry of pictures taken three blocks away in the 'Tenderloin' where lots of homeless people are scurrying about.



So naturally some Venture Capitalist who lives in the most expensive neighborhood of San Francisco decided to take some Instagram pics of the sunset and architecture to mock the post of how empty and impoverished the rest of the town looks.

 

[Jormungandr]

The more I see of San Francisco, the more it's slowly morphing into Detroit.

 

[TheRejectionist]

I remember visiting LA and SF 14 years ago with my father. One of few nice things he did.

Liked SF more than LA, and I remember the city being not shiny BUT no the horrid hellscape it is NOW.

 

[Bigking321]

That's what happens when leftists get total control.

Look at Detroit. It used to be a genuine jewel of a city and a cultural hub. Now it's horrific.

 

[Cherico]

The more I see of San Francisco, the more it's slowly morphing into Detroit.

well we were told that detroit was the city of the future they just didn't tell us what kind of future we would get.

 

[Robovski]

I saw LA in the late 90's and was shocked at how dirty and dried out everything looked and all the homeless everywhere. It's not that much different now really, just worse.

well we were told that detroit was the city of the future they just didn't tell us what kind of future we would get.

I think we had a pretty good idea:

 

[Jormungandr]

well we were told that detroit was the city of the future they just didn't tell us what kind of future we would get.

I'm torn between laughing and feeling sad at this statement.

Worse still, Detroit was an accurate end result representation of what would happen to other cities under American Democrat control, and we're seeing this decay in San Fran, California as a whole, et cetera.

 

[Urabrask Revealed]

And yet none of the NPCs ever stop to think if maybe "back the blue, no matter who" is the cause of their problems. But nooo, gibmedats and "YOU ARE RACIST" propaganda keeps them asleep.

 

[Cherico]

And yet none of the NPCs ever stop to think if maybe "back the blue, no matter who" is the cause of their problems. But nooo, gibmedats and "YOU ARE RACIST" propaganda keeps them asleep.

your assuming they don't want this outcome fact is they really do.

 

[TheRejectionist]

That's what happens when leftists get total control.

Look at Detroit. It used to be a genuine jewel of a city and a cultural hub. Now it's horrific.

Never being there but I remember folks talking about Detroit as it was ALREADY going downhill before the '08 Crash.