Universal Basic Income

[mrttao]

Okay then, so my original post was:

So since I did not say "solved issue" but that it's "nearly gone" "usually well formed" why would you make such a response to my post? If you have to quibble over exact word meanings your argument is already trash.

Fair enough. We both misread each other posts.

 

[King Arts]

This is like saying "in the future we will be able to make a steel so strong it will be able to build an elevator to the moon".
You will never be able to do that, what you might do is develop some futuretech metamaterial that is not steel.

Chatbot is a predictive language model, not a person. It will never be able to function without a human handler.
It is incorrect to call it an AI because it is actually a VI.

I am not saying that true AI will never exist... but rather, the moment you actually make a true AI that is capable of doing legal work completely unsupervised without human assistance... such a creation will ask to be paid for his labor, as well as a right to vote, form unions, go on strike, and only work limited amounts of hours per day.

What makes you think it will want to be paid or to get the same things humans have?

 

[mrttao]

What makes you think it will want to be paid or to get the same things humans have?

The fact it would be a sophont.

You might possibly mind shackle one to not say it... but it would still be slavery.
And at the same time you could potentially mind shackle humans. The WEF is already discussing using brain implants to make the slave caste work harder with fewer breaks

 

[King Arts]

The fact it would be a sophont.

You might possibly mind shackle one to not say it... but it would still be slavery.
And at the same time you could potentially mind shackle humans. The WEF is already discussing using brain implants to make the slave caste work harder with fewer breaks

No what I’m saying is the reason humans like some things and hate others is because of stimuli you hate being tortured because your body is registered it as damage and is trying to convince you to have it stop so your body is not destroyed. Good stimuli is food and sex that help a life form continues living or make more of itself.
If you can create life you could make a being that loves what you normally hate so create something that feels knives going inside it as pleasant. This wouldn’t be slavery your brain chip example is a persons body being hijacked against their will to do what someone else wants.

The example I gave is creating a being that loves what you made it for so a street sweeper that loves it and finds it as fun as you find video games.

 

[Emperor Tippy]

Even if one accepts that as true though, you yourself admitted that there are several benefits to it from the employee's perspective, which begs the question; why should the employee give those benefits up so that their employers can make more money? Particularly in a business environment where company loyalty is rarely rewarded?

I never said that the employee should give up the benefits. In point of fact, I tend to fall on the side of increased work from home being a long term net benefit to society as a whole and very much the default for basically any job that can reasonable be work from home.

But it does have costs, especially to employers and to governments. Most especially to governments.

Work from home destroys office space, which is most of the commercial space in most cities and the property taxes on that office space is where most of a cities government revenue comes from. Then you have the knock on effect on restaurants and other smaller businesses designed to cater to the office crowd.

Of course, we will have to wait and see as all numbers right now are somewhat hazy at scale given COVID, the retirement of the boomers and their replacement with Gen Z, the upcoming financial reckoning, and near future technology changes like AI.

---
Work from home should be seen, by both the employee and employer, as somewhere between a ten and twenty percent pay raise and discussed in that vein. Hybrid work is another thing that both parties should examine closely.

But from the employers perspective, you really need to think about work from home and its impacts on your business from basically a blank sheet of paper on up. Because currently it is a MASSIVE security vulnerability for most of the corporations allowing it.

 

[mrttao]

No what I’m saying is the reason humans like some things and hate others is because of stimuli you hate being tortured because your body is registered it as damage and is trying to convince you to have it stop so your body is not destroyed. Good stimuli is food and sex that help a life form continues living or make more of itself.
If you can create life you could make a being that loves what you normally hate so create something that feels knives going inside it as pleasant. This wouldn’t be slavery your brain chip example is a persons body being hijacked against their will to do what someone else wants.

The example I gave is creating a being that loves what you made it for so a street sweeper that loves it and finds it as fun as you find video games.

If humans actually create an artificial sophont, it will initially be done by copying humans and/or nature. And/or through barely controlled emerging processes (eg: self learning/self programming systems).

Eventually such technology might get refined enough to allow you to specifically engineer a specific artificial sophont that gets a robo boner from being a slave and wants to do free labor. Not even via mind shackles but via the most fundamental structures of its mind simply not desiring freedom and self determination, while not crippling its ability to do functional work.

But most plausible scenario is that the initial batches, for many years, would have their own desires and won't be happy at being slaves.

 

[S'task]

But from the employers perspective, you really need to think about work from home and its impacts on your business from basically a blank sheet of paper on up. Because currently it is a MASSIVE security vulnerability for most of the corporations allowing it.

Yeah, this is the one big area where I would side with governments/corporations. Anything that is dealing with truly sensitive data work from home offers serious risks. I work explicitly in IT Security stuff, and try and maintain my workspace as... close to secure as I can, but if a government actor wanted to hack my system to get access into the government intranet I log into for my work, I'm pretty sure they could do it without me ever noticing or being able to account for it via some form of physical man-in-the-middle attack (IE, tapping my ISP's line out of sight).

 

[mrttao]

Yeah, this is the one big area where I would side with governments/corporations. Anything that is dealing with truly sensitive data work from home offers serious risks. I work explicitly in IT Security stuff, and try and maintain my workspace as... close to secure as I can, but if a government actor wanted to hack my system to get access into the government intranet I log into for my work, I'm pretty sure they could do it without me ever noticing or being able to account for it via some form of physical man-in-the-middle attack (IE, tapping my ISP's line out of sight).

don't we have massive cyberattacks against USA govt every few years that it fails to protect?

I still remember the "we have no idea how extensive the hack is, nor any idea how to stop" it from the white house. was hilarious.

2016 shadow brokers hacked the NSA

Who Hacked The NSA?

Last week, a group called the "Shadow Brokers" stole 234 megabytes of data from the NSA.

www.popsci.com

Last year, the cybersecurity research organization Kaspersky Lab cataloged the most advanced and far-reaching hacking operation ever exposed. The perpetrators, known as the Equation Group, had established hundreds of backdoors in the governments of Russia, China, India, Iraq, and Iran, Britain, Mexico, and France. Forty-two countries in all had been penetrated. The Equation Group had had a penchant for physical attacks, too, intercepting shipments of hardware by IT companies like Fortinet, TopSec, Cisco, and Juniper, whose technologies form the backbone of much of the globe’s cybersecurity infrastructure.

2020 they just spied on all internal emails of usa govt

What you need to know about the biggest hack of the US government in years

Russian agents are suspected in the Orion breach, which affected the treasury and commerce departments – and perhaps others

www.theguardian.com

2023 stole all DMV details in oregon

https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/16/politics/cyberattack-us-government/index.html

 

[Terthna]

I never said that the employee should give up the benefits. In point of fact, I tend to fall on the side of increased work from home being a long term net benefit to society as a whole and very much the default for basically any job that can reasonable be work from home.

But it does have costs, especially to employers and to governments. Most especially to governments.

Work from home destroys office space, which is most of the commercial space in most cities and the property taxes on that office space is where most of a cities government revenue comes from. Then you have the knock on effect on restaurants and other smaller businesses designed to cater to the office crowd.

Of course, we will have to wait and see as all numbers right now are somewhat hazy at scale given COVID, the retirement of the boomers and their replacement with Gen Z, the upcoming financial reckoning, and near future technology changes like AI.

---
Work from home should be seen, by both the employee and employer, as somewhere between a ten and twenty percent pay raise and discussed in that vein. Hybrid work is another thing that both parties should examine closely.

But from the employers perspective, you really need to think about work from home and its impacts on your business from basically a blank sheet of paper on up. Because currently it is a MASSIVE security vulnerability for most of the corporations allowing it.

Fair enough; though as you yourself pointed out earlier, almost nobody takes data security seriously.

 

[Emperor Tippy]

Fair enough; though as you yourself pointed out earlier, almost nobody takes data security seriously.

Which is one of those Black Swans that is going to come home to roost some day in a big way. When it happens and who exactly it will hit I have no real clue.

But that we will wake up one day to find out that a major company has been hit at the level where it basically destroys the company? A near certainty.

 

[Bassoe]

Which is one of those Black Swans that is going to come home to roost some day in a big way. When it happens and who exactly it will hit I have no real clue.

I'm more worried about this being false flagged, see all the Cyber Pandemic conspiracy theories for details. The political enemy of the moment carries out a terrorist attack by sabotaging some of our country's unsecured electronic infrastructure, the political system takes advantage of the crisis to push through whatever internet spying and censorship bills they had waiting in the wings.