Military US Military Is Scared Americans Won't Fight For Globalism

[Cherico]

Or we could just go full on "Service guarantees citizenship!" also would you like to know more?

If shit gets bad enough we might go with that

 

[Carrot of Truth]

If shit gets bad enough we might go with that

Well actually anyone who hasn't done service would just be a resident, That's how it worked in Starship troopers.

 

[Urabrask Revealed]

if you can vote then you should register.

We really need a spit tribble.

 

[King Arts]

No, you need someone at home to work the jobs that will be suddenly vacant, and well...the reality is a man can impregnate a women, go off and die in a war, and still have someone to 'replace' him on the homefront.

Not the same with a pregnant woman who is forced into combat or service, and the military has been completely unsuccessful at forcing women to keep their pants on, because they can order a man not to get laid or attempt to get laid by someone in teh service, but they either cannot or will not enforce the same regs/rules on females.

What needs to happen is for the Selective Service Act to be nullified and expunged; conscriptions/drafts are slavery, no matter how you pretty it up.

If women are exempt from the draft, but men are not then women should be second class citizens.

 

[Bacle]

If women are exempt from the draft, but men are not then women should be second class citizens.

No, that's retarded.

What needs to happen is for the Selective Service Act to be removed/nullified as law, so no draft/conscription can legally happen.

 

[Zachowon]

No, that's retarded.

What needs to happen is for the Selective Service Act to be removed/nullified as law, so no draft/conscription can legally happen.

And what happens when a war and bodies are needed and not enough volunteer?
We lose?
Good to know

 

[Bacle]

And what happens when a war and bodies are needed and not enough volunteer?
We lose?
Good to know

Any war that requires a draft/conscription is one that is likely to end up in a nuclear exchange anyway, which would render the impetus behind said draft/conscription moot as the potential draftees would either be radioactive dust, hiding in fallout shelters, or just trying to survive day-to-day anyway, and thus the Selective Service Act is completely useless in modern warfare of the scale that would be needed for it to be justified.

Edit: And none of that changes that drafts/conscription are a form of slavery.

 

[Zachowon]

Any war that requires a draft/conscription is one that is likely to end up in a nuclear exchange anyway, which would render the impetus behind said draft/conscription moot as the potential draftees would either be radioactive dust, hiding in fallout shelters, or just trying to survive day-to-day anyway, and thus the Selective Service Act is completely useless in modern warfare of the scale that would be needed for it to be justified.

So defense of the homeland is not worthwhile?
Or a fully conventional world war 3?
Gotcha.

 

[Cherico]

No, that's retarded.

What needs to happen is for the Selective Service Act to be removed/nullified as law, so no draft/conscription can legally happen.

that is not going to happen, the fact is when nations are in fights for survival drafts and conscriptions always come back, and in fact historically voting rights were tied to ones willingness to if need be fight and die for their countries. You were willing to fight so you were given a say in the government.

If women vote then they need to follow through with not just the benifits of citizenship but the responsbilities that go along with it.

 

[Bacle]

So defense of the homeland is not worthwhile?
Or a fully conventional world war 3?
Gotcha.

You got nothing but the words you put in my mouth, because actually addressing the point I made would undercut your bitching and force you to deal with the realities of what would actually justify a draft in the US these days, and how the very nature of said threat would mean conscription/drafts would be useless.

And there will be no 'fully conventional WW3' that involves a fight big enough to justify a draft/conscription; any fight that justifies a draft means a fight that is likely to go full MAD, thus nullifying the whole point of the draft/conscription.

that is not going to happen, the fact is when nations are in fights for survival drafts and conscriptions always come back, and in fact historically voting rights were tied to ones willingness to if need be fight and die for their countries. You were willing to fight so you were given a say in the government.

If women vote then they need to follow through with not just the benifits of citizenship but the responsbilities that go along with it.

This is just some dumbass shit that is more about spiting the woke crowd than anything sensible.

We should be trying to eliminate the draft as a legal instrument, not forcing women to sign up for it.

 

[King Arts]

Well actually anyone who hasn't done service would just be a resident, That's how it worked in Starship troopers.

In Starship troopers those who don't do service are civillians, they don't have the right to vote, or run for election, and they can't do certain jobs like police officer. They still had other rights like buying selling engaging in commerce etc. They could be rich and own property. Also they weren't residents since for others resident aliens with a green card can be deported. The Federation was the sole human government they don't have anywhere to deport or exile people lol.

No, that's retarded.

What needs to happen is for the Selective Service Act to be removed/nullified as law, so no draft/conscription can legally happen.

No I agree with you, but I don't think it'll happen unless women are brought into the draft. The way I see it is 1st place no draft at all. 2nd place there is a draft but those who are drafted are given extra rights to compensate them. 3rd place is what we have now there is a draft those who get drafted don't get dick.

And what happens when a war and bodies are needed and not enough volunteer?
We lose?
Good to know

Umm Zach can you think of a scenario where defense of the homeland would be needed but we wouldn't use nukes? Like let's say we mess up as bad as Russia does in a future war with China, they take Taiwan. Are you saying we should do a draft then? If the war keeps going and they push us back to Hawaii wouldn't it be better to just sue for peace let them have Taiwan as long as they don't take any American territory. If they say no, would you say we should continue to have just a conventional war instead of going nuclear if China actually lands troops on American soil?

 

[Cherico]

You got nothing but the words you put in my mouth, because actually addressing the point I made would undercut your bitching and force you to deal with the realities of what would actually justify a draft in the US these days, and how the very nature of said threat would mean conscription/drafts would be useless.

And there will be no 'fully conventional WW3' that involves a fight big enough to justify a draft/conscription; any fight that justifies a draft means a fight that is likely to go full MAD, thus nullifying the whole point of the draft/conscription.
This is just some dumbass shit that is more about spiting the woke crowd than anything sensible.

We should be trying to eliminate the draft as a legal instrument, not forcing women to sign up for it.

Life is full of things that are not fun but are nessary for the survival of the community and the state. Some times you have to draft people it sucks but a lot of things in life suck.

 

[Bacle]

Life is full of things that are not fun but are nessary for the survival of the community and the state. Some times you have to draft people it sucks but a lot of things in life suck.

No, thinking that a draft would do anything to help the US, in a conflict that might actually justify it, is thinking in pre-MAD paradigms.

I cannot see a single scenario where a draft in the US is justified, where the conflict doesn't also get to the point of MAD, thus meaning the draft would be pointless by then.

The draft is nothing more than a tool to threaten the populace with 'if not enough people want to fight for DC, we will just force you to' for recruiting purposes.

 

[Ixian]

And what happens when a war and bodies are needed and not enough volunteer?
We lose?
Good to know

1. A volunteer force is inherently better than a conscripted force

2. Any conflict that would require the US to initiate the draft is going to go nuclear, at which point a draft is irrelevant

There isn't any conceivable scenario in which the US will ever need the draft again, short of all nuclear weapons on the planet becoming inactive.

 

[Bacle]

1. A volunteer force is inherently better than a conscripted force

2. Any conflict that would require the US to initiate the draft is going to go nuclear, at which point a draft is irrelevant

There isn't any conceivable scenario in which the US will ever need the draft again, short of all nuclear weapons on the planet becoming inactive.

Exactly.

Zach cannot admit that, because it would undercut him using 'if not enough volunteer, we'll just have to force people to join in event of war' rhetoric, and mean admitting that any conflict that may justify a draft would be a conflict where MAD is going to happen.

He and other service members just like the threat of a draft to use for recruiting purposes.

 

[Marduk]

2. Any conflict that would require the US to initiate the draft is going to go nuclear, at which point a draft is irrelevant

I cannot see a single scenario where a draft in the US is justified, where the conflict doesn't also get to the point of MAD, thus meaning the draft would be pointless by then.

That's a fairly bold assumption. And you know what they say about assumptions.
I think i'm in the middle here. Many people imagine draft Vietnam or WW2 style, with millions of men drafted mostly for army work.
With how modern warfare goes, in case of US that's rather unlikely.
Between the internal and global politics, any foreign adventure requiring that will be automatically lolnoped politically, at least for the foreseeable future.
Besides, the rapidity of it would probably make it more of a logistical burden than it's worth.
However, draft goes further than just getting lots of grunts, and it can absolutely target people with specific qualifications. Cyberwarfare specialists? Airforce techs and pilots who went to more lucrative civilian sector? Ship crews?
Those are more likely to be needed quickly for something.

 

[Zachowon]

Better to have an not need then need and not have.
Russia has shown a nob nuclear conventional war can happen.

 

[Bacle]

That's a fairly bold assumption. And you know what they say about assumptions.
I think i'm in the middle here. Many people imagine draft Vietnam or WW2 style, with millions of men drafted mostly for army work.
With how modern warfare goes, in case of US that's rather unlikely.
Between the internal and global politics, any foreign adventure requiring that will be automatically lolnoped politically, at least for the foreseeable future.
Besides, the rapidity of it would probably make it more of a logistical burden than it's worth.
However, draft goes further than just getting lots of grunts, and it can absolutely target people with specific qualifications. Cyberwarfare specialists? Airforce techs and pilots who went to more lucrative civilian sector? Ship crews?
Those are more likely to be needed quickly for something.

Better to have an not need then need and not have.
Russia has shown a nob nuclear conventional war can happen.

Can either of you present a realistic scenario where a conflict justifies a draft in the US, that doesn't involve conflicts with peer/near-peer nuclear powers?

 

[Marduk]

Can either of you present a realistic scenario where a conflict justifies a draft in the US, that doesn't involve conflicts with peer/near-peer nuclear powers?

History has proven that semi-proxy wars, or even direct conflicts between nuclear powers can absolutely happen and not be nuclear.
Any major naval conflict or one requiring major naval logistics could result in small draft for naval personnel, especially if current problems with the following persist. The question of whether a draft may be needed is not one to be looked at in perspective of 10 years or so, look all the possibilities of next 50 years.
Middle East? Southeast Asia? Who the hell knows.

 

[Zachowon]

Invasion of homeland US.
Conventional response to Russia tactical nuking of Ukraine