There are hundreds flying, and newest model is not out of production.
| Produced | CL-415: 1993–2015 / DHC-515: 2022-present |
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Warbirds Thread
- Thread starter PsihoKekec
- Start date
PsihoKekec
Swashbuckling Accountant
CL-415 is out of production, while CL-515 is ''expected to enter production by the middle of the decade''. Right now there is program to establish production, depending on sufficient interest. Right now they have multiple inquiries of intent, but no binding orders. It is only when they have concrete orders that they will start hiring the workforce.
But there is a shitload of foreign operators of other models used around the world though.
Canadair CL-415 - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
This seems to be the most popular one, mainly made for firefighting but also has SAR and other variants.
Canadair CL-215 - Wikipedia
Less than a hundred ever built is by no sane definition a "shitload". They are niche aircraft that continue to exist in very small numbers for niche uses, but those niche uses shrink more and more as mainstream designs become more capable and cut the edges of the niche.
It is a shitload compared to the dedicated military ones...
No, it's not.
Global military production substantially outnumbers the civilian Canadairs, because the Soviets continued to make relatively substantial use of them as long-range maritime patrol and ASW craft.
BBeriev Be-6: 123 built, 1949 to 1960s.
Beriev Be-12: 150 built, 1960s to 1973.
Beriev Be-200: 19 built, 1998-present
Beriev A-40: In development, 2 prototypes.
Shin Meiwa US-1A: 43 built, 1971-2017.
ShinMaywa US-2: 8 built, 2007-present
However, this is only a "shitload" by an unbelievably constipated definition thereof, especially compared to the old WWII-era flying boats. The wartime production of Consolidated brand flying boats alone dwarfs the combined total of all other flying boats ever made, combined.
Consolidated P2Y: 78 built.
Consolidated PBY Catalina: 3,308 built
Consolidated PB2Y Coronado: 217 built
paulobrito
Well-known member
Going by what at the time is said about the performance of the MiG-25, and what is discovered after getting the hands in one...
I use a gigaton of salt about the credibility of said open sources.
Even more, because no one has been found on the front lines, so, not even 3rd hand combat analysis exists.
I use a gigaton of salt about the credibility of said open sources.
Even more, because no one has been found on the front lines, so, not even 3rd hand combat analysis exists.
Oh yeah, I remember hearing about the Foxbat (?) causing NATO nations to panic after it was unveiled. When they finally got their hands on one, however...
Basically: "...The fuck is this shit? Where's the Soviet superfighter?"
paulobrito
Well-known member
Yep, but the fact is - until you get your hands on the real hardware, everything you 'know' is only the aspect of said hardware, nothing more. Can be shit, can be meh, can be real good. No (hard) data is no data.Oh yeah, I remember hearing about the Foxbat (?) causing NATO nations to panic after it was unveiled. When they finally got their hands on one, however...
Basically: "...The fuck is this shit? Where's the Soviet superfighter?"
Yes and no. The Foxbat's high speed dash was an observed capability; the part that was assumed was that it was also relatively agile for essentially the same reasons that the Eagle is agile -- big wings with relatively low loading, large control surfaces, clean aerodynamics. It wasn't until Belenoko's defection that the West learned that the MiG-25's airframe was actually built primarily out of nickel steel, not aluminum and titanium, and that it therefore was in fact too heavy to have the expected agility, on top of the numerous soft factors limiting its performance.
It wasn't a stupid assumption -- the aerodynamic analysis of the airframe isn't incorrect, it's just that the MiG-25 ended up having to make 'invisible' tradeoffs for the sheer speed it had combined with the Soviet economy being more limited than we assumed (i.e., they couldn't afford a predominantly titanium airframe, which would have given it both speed and agility, but been very expensive).
Wait, fucking what? That I did not know.
I can understand why the Soviets were pissed -- it wasn't just the leakage of perceived technologies and capabilities to the West, but the unspoken truths of how bad their economies and financial plannings were in total.
Kinda like "we eat three bowls of rice per day as meals" having the unspoken truth/fact of "we can't afford anything but rice three times a day compared to our neighbours, who eat meat stew three times a day. With snacks. And cola/beer".
Aaron Fox
Well-known member
Actually, it was less 'bad economy' and more like they were still working on expanding their titanium production and processing capabilities. People forget that titanium is a complete and utter bitch to work with, as in 'makes how long it took us to use aluminum en mass look a hop and a skip' bitch, and the only reason that it is (comparatively) short was that we had a lot more people to throw at the problem. Then there is the fact that titanium alloys are extremely recent; it took us a while before the SR-71 got the specific titanium alloy we ended up with, allowing it to survive the speeds it would achieve... and that's with the fact that we were behind in titanium technology.Wait, fucking what? That I did not know.
I can understand why the Soviets were pissed -- it wasn't just the leakage of perceived technologies and capabilities to the West, but the unspoken truths of how bad their economies and financial plannings were in total.
Kinda like "we eat three bowls of rice per day as meals" having the unspoken truth/fact of "we can't afford anything but rice three times a day compared to our neighbours, who eat meat stew three times a day. With snacks. And cola/beer".
Morphic Tide
Well-known member
Foxbat also had non-flush rivets, the thing was hobbled by bad industry all the way down.
BF110C4
Well-known member
Although it should be added that the Foxbat did accomplish its primary mission. Their existance helped to deter SR-71 flights in a number of occasions, which were both a constant political headache and a legitimate problem to Russia's strategic security by giving the West too clear of a picture of their capabilities, and its threat helped to take the wind off the sails of future hypersonic bomber projects (even if the prodigious costs and technical hurdles did their part as well).
In that sense the plane in its original form was a success, and the failure to develop it into a more rounded and cost-effective plane was a different issue.
In that sense the plane in its original form was a success, and the failure to develop it into a more rounded and cost-effective plane was a different issue.
Wait, fucking what? That I did not know.
The Soviet Union had the world's largest supplies of titanium; they did not however have the economy or infrastructure to actually use nearly as much titanium as they wanted. This is also why they did not continue to build titanium-hulled SSNs beyond the Sierra-II class.
The short version is that the sheer speed desired for MiG-25 imposes so much airframe heating that it rules out the usual aircraft aluminum frame, and titanium wasn't an option for cost and availability reasons; hence they had to go with steel, which is strong and heat-resistant but also heavy. The only way they were able to make a preominantly-steel airframe light enough was making it relatively thin; the structural limit for the MiG-25 is something like just 2.2Gs.
That's incorrect; the Foxbat made selective use of non-flush rivets in areas where they wouldn't cause adverse aerodynamics. This is the same thing the United States did in its own aircraft; the F-14 and F-15 have non-flush rivets in non-detrimental areas as well.
Just stumbled across this during my wanderings.
The MiG-25 Foxbat still holds one impressive record of highest altitude for an aircraft using jet engines established almost fifty years ago. I wonder what the other twenty eight records were.
The MiG-25 Foxbat still holds one impressive record of highest altitude for an aircraft using jet engines established almost fifty years ago. I wonder what the other twenty eight records were.
They're pretty much all variations of speed and altitude performance, with many of them being "with 2000 kg payload, with 1000 kg payload, and with no payload" variants for multiple records for the same basic thing.