Warhammer Warhammer General discussion thread: Now with 100% more Space Marines

H.B.M.C.

Member
Yeah I wrote so much that they couldn't fit it all in the book, and had to do a separate PDF release of all the things they couldn't fit into the word count. :D

BYE
 

Hlaalu Agent

Nerevar going to let you down
Founder
Yeah I wrote so much that they couldn't fit it all in the book, and had to do a separate PDF release of all the things they couldn't fit into the word count. :D

BYE

Sounds neat. So how do things work between the two editions?
 

Gastaph Hediatrix

Fabricator-General of Mars
Founder
My personal recommendation is to ignore all the rules-systems in 2nd edition, and just use it to mine fluff and equipment out of. Fantasy Flight basically listened to everyone who complained about characters being able to do things with 1st edition builds and nerfed it all.

Though the most annoying change of all was not to character abilities, but rather to characteristic generation. Instead of being able to roll and assign them as you see fit, the character generation procedure gives some stats special roll modifiers or penalties, which mean that they must be rolled distinctly, and therefore could potentially result in you getting a low characteristic roll for a characteristic that's important to your build (which has already been set by the time you're actually rolling the dice).
 

Hlaalu Agent

Nerevar going to let you down
Founder
My personal recommendation is to ignore all the rules-systems in 2nd edition, and just use it to mine fluff and equipment out of. Fantasy Flight basically listened to everyone who complained about characters being able to do things with 1st edition builds and nerfed it all.

Though the most annoying change of all was not to character abilities, but rather to characteristic generation. Instead of being able to roll and assign them as you see fit, the character generation procedure gives some stats special roll modifiers or penalties, which mean that they must be rolled distinctly, and therefore could potentially result in you getting a low characteristic roll for a characteristic that's important to your build (which has already been set by the time you're actually rolling the dice).

And mine some of the actual good ideas for rules too right? Because I am sure there are some.
 

H.B.M.C.

Member
Sounds neat. So how do things work between the two editions?
In the end not that different. I was part of the play-test group for the original DH2.0 and it was very different. Completely different way of handling combat, and it took forever. I remember we were running the first splat book (the adventure) and when we got to a combat encounter that increased in size as the combat went on, involving enemies and allied NPCs, and involved the DH2.0 vehicle rules we all just collectively gave up.

The beta that FFG did later had quite a bit of that new combat system removed, and then by the end of the beta the feedback on combat was so bad that they just went back to how it worked in Black Crusade/Only War. They even transplanted the vehicle rules I wrote for Only War into DH2.0 to replace the convoluted vehicle rules DH2.0 had originally.

I think DH2.0 is much stronger for it as a result, plus transferring equipment and rules back and forth is far easier.

BYE
 

ShieldWife

Marchioness
I’m thinking of getting into Kill Team with a Chaos Cult themed force, using some of my Diaz Daemonettes and some human models. I’m more into 40K from the role playing side than war gaming, but I think it could be cool to combine KT with some narrative and fluff for the characters and missions.

I am in favour of female Space Marines, but I think that if the reason you want female Space Marines is porn or hentai, then you should never be allowed to look at a picture of female Space Marine ever again.
So, why are you in favor of FSM? Personally, I'm not inherently opposed to the idea, but I've never heard a compelling case for why doing so is a good idea.
I feel like the idea of inclusivity for inclusivity’s sake has unfairly soured me on female Astartes, even though I might like the idea under the right circumstances. I’ve actually never been a particularly big fan of Space Marines even though I like many aspects of the 40K setting. Really, making Astartes chapters vary more might make them more interesting to me and, within that greater variation, some of them could be female.
 

Marduk

Well-known member
Moderator
Staff Member
But that goes back to a point where if it's for faction's variance sake, there is no reason why Astartes-like subfactions have to "technically" be Astartes even though they are meant to be different from Astartes. Thinking about that SoB pretty much fit that bill perfectly- a subfaction of female, power armor wearing fanatical troops, but clearly different from Astartes in lore, mechanics and stuff.

Just adding more interesting groups/factions/organisations the lore with their own quirks, backstory, equipment and so on is inherently the most open ended option with least controversy risk, as the new stuff does not need to involve changing the lore or anything else of pre-existing stuff, so no risk of annoying those invested with the old stuff. That's a particularly bad issue with retroactively modifying the lore of something as central in the 40k media as Astartes.
 
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ShieldWife

Marchioness
Oh yeah, I wouldn’t introduce female Astartes if I owned GW. I was just speaking of what would interest me personally. I wouldn’t want female Astartes necessarily to fill a niche that I think that the game is lacking, I just think making the various chapters a bit more different from each other might increase my interest in them. I do personally find the Sororitas more interesting from just a flavor perspective, not gender.
 

Battlegrinder

Someday we will win, no matter what it takes.
Moderator
Staff Member
Founder
Obozny
. I’ve actually never been a particularly big fan of Space Marines even though I like many aspects of the 40K setting. Really, making Astartes chapters vary more might make them more interesting to me and, within that greater variation, some of them could be female.

What would you be looking for in terms of variety that the current chapters don't have or don't allow?
 

Urabrask Revealed

Let them go.
Founder
That's... unnecessarily aggressive. Keep rule 2c in mind.
What would you be looking for in terms of variety that the current chapters don't have or don't allow?
Crying about how they can't have children probably. As far as I know, Astartes are either sterile or incompatible with baseline humans, something that seems to affect on average women more than men. Then again, Astartes are so heavily indoctrinated, the idea of children might not even cross their minds.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
I’m thinking of getting into Kill Team with a Chaos Cult themed force, using some of my Diaz Daemonettes and some human models. I’m more into 40K from the role playing side than war gaming, but I think it could be cool to combine KT with some narrative and fluff for the characters and missions.



I feel like the idea of inclusivity for inclusivity’s sake has unfairly soured me on female Astartes, even though I might like the idea under the right circumstances. I’ve actually never been a particularly big fan of Space Marines even though I like many aspects of the 40K setting. Really, making Astartes chapters vary more might make them more interesting to me and, within that greater variation, some of them could be female.
A lot of Kill team stuff actuated has a lot of narrative stuff around it.
 

ShieldWife

Marchioness
What would you be looking for in terms of variety that the current chapters don't have or don't allow?
I think that a reconceptualization of the Astartes that might interest me is if each chapter was more unique in style, combat tactics, armor, weapons, etc. For example, one chapter wears light armor and is super fast. Another chapter is the reverse, they are all basically terminators. With Blood Angels, if we go with the vampire theme, focus more on their supernatural physical prowess, their thirst for blood, maybe regeneration or something. Not just red armor. With Chaos Astartes they could go even more wild - Alpha Legion could be all stealthy models, no power armor as we normally recognize it. Some chapters are a bit more unique in that regard and they are cooler for it, in my opinion.

Of course, one might say that we already have stealthy armies or what ever niche I want Astartes to fill. That is true, and I am often more interested in those other factions. I wouldn’t expect GW to make such changes except in subtle ways.

In some regard, what I am asking for is likely too much of a thematic change to be practical, since the Astartes originated from a common design in the fluff.
Crying about how they can't have children probably. As far as I know, Astartes are either sterile or incompatible with baseline humans, something that seems to affect on average women more than men. Then again, Astartes are so heavily indoctrinated, the idea of children might not even cross their minds.
I have no interest in Astartes having children, unless they were really heavily thematically changed, I don’t think it would make sense.

I’m also not crying, just stating my opinion of Astartes and 40K. I’m not making threads about how GW is bigoted or anything, I’m just expressing my personal feelings. I just happen to find other factions with the 40K setting more interesting.
A lot of Kill team stuff actuated has a lot of narrative stuff around it.
Yeah, the campaign has interesting potential for that. I was thinking it might be cool to use a wiki to describe the sector we’re in, the major movers and shakers there, our important characters, and how the results of various battles change things.
 

Battlegrinder

Someday we will win, no matter what it takes.
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Obozny
In some regard, what I am asking for is likely too much of a thematic change to be practical, since the Astartes originated from a common design in the fluff.

I would say the issue is less of it being to much of a change in themes, than it is an issue of being too much of a change in models and rules. After all, there's a reason all the current chapters use the same gear or slightly modified versions of it, making extra models and entirely different rule sets (as opposed to the current method of a largely uniform set of core rules with some minor tweaks and special rules) would probably not be practical from a business sense.
 

Marduk

Well-known member
Moderator
Staff Member
With the advancement in 3d printing and other small scale manufacturing tech, the cost side of it is becoming less of a problem year by year, especially with the markup GW in particular has on these things.
 

Urabrask Revealed

Let them go.
Founder
I’m also not crying,
Apologies if you thought so, but that wasn't aimed at you. It's just I cannot imagine what possible conflict there could be with FSM other than biological ones, with how Space Marines are sterile. Even if FSM existed, they would be the same as SM in looks, behavior, and culture; meaning there's no point to them.

I can't see any reason for female space marines that isn't already being covered by the current assembly.
 
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