Battletech Welcome to the Jungle

[Knowledgeispower]

Only so much money to go around, and as Knowledge suggested, they’ve picked up a few, but Weber only recently got his license to mint Kroner. Technically speaking, he’s only actually sold two Phoenix BattleMechs thus far, and all the money to build the line came out of CAC’s coffers. They were just about broke, which is why they took the Sevren job.

Mind you between the sale of Mechs, components for Warhammers and Thuds to Olvetti, and of course sales from refit kits be they lostech or reasonably sized engines for the Cicada, argent maple sales, and of course various other lostech and regular material sales with more facilities coming online as time goes on and oh boy does the CAC have a good fiscal future

Also it occurs to me that the Commonwealth will probably pick up the tab for a fair few of the needed turrets once they get their garrison units and presumably some specialists in military fortifications there and evaluate what's needed to properly defend the holdfast. Although its going to take time for them to arrive, evaluate things, then spend their reports out,and then get the needed materials and equipment shipped to Catachan and then finally install them.

 

[Lancelot]

Mind you between the sale of Mechs, components for Warhammers and Thuds to Olvetti, and of course sales from refit kits be they lostech or reasonably sized engines for the Cicada, argent maple sales, and of course various other lostech and regular material sales with more facilities coming online as time goes on and oh boy does the CAC have a good fiscal future

Beyond that if Olvetti wasn't willing to give them a small loan to buy a decent AA envelope for WHEN not if their Golden Goose is found by an enemy I can only assume their all fucking retards. It's small area to cover on a large planet there is no reason they don't have enough AA to have any dropship or ASF wing keep their fucking distance until mechs can take them out.

 

[Doomsought]

Well, I decided to play around with Tactical operations to see what a twin long-tom bunker would come out to.

Spoiler: Stats

Long tom Bunker
Type: Fortress
CF: 60
Levels: 2 surface, 1 basement 8400 kCB
Armor: 60 Inner sphere 4 tons, 40kCB
Crew: 16
Equipment:
2 long toms, 2F, 60 tons , 900 kCB
Turret Equipment, 1F, 6 tons, 60kCB
Communication Equipment, 1F 4 tons, 40kCB
Light Vehicle Bay, 1F, 50 tons, 10kCB
Infantry Bay, 1F, 5 tons, 75kCB
Storage, 1F, 2 tons
ICE backup generators, B, 4.5 tons, 22.5 kCB
Grid power Hookup, B, 1.5 tons, 7.5 kCB
Fuel, B, 30 tons, 3kCB
Long Tom Ammo (100), B, 20 tons, 1000kCB
Building cost: 16,896,000 C-Bills

TL/DR: just a hair under 17 million CBills, or 11.5 urban mechs if that is how you want to measure things.

Actually, with the walls and everything, a couple dozen urban mechs might be a good investment.

 

[PsihoKekec]

Beyond that if Olvetti wasn't willing to give them a small loan to buy a decent AA envelope for WHEN not if their Golden Goose is found by an enemy I can only assume their all fucking retards.

Keep in mind that SI comes from 21st century and has considerable RL historical knowledge, so he would come with our belief that fixed defences are a complete waste of resources. Whatever fortifications that keep flora and fauna of Catachan out are fine, but every Kroner spent on further fortifications is a Kroner not spent on mechs and ASF, who can be used on both defensive and offensive. Also the SI is vary of going into debt and was preoccupied with expanding the Warriors/Harabequisers and rebuilding the Catachan facilities.

 

[Lancelot]

Keep in mind that SI comes from 21st century and has considerable RL historical knowledge, so he would come with our belief that fixed defences are a complete waste of resources. Whatever fortifications that keep flora and fauna of Catachan out are fine, but every Kroner spent on further fortifications is a Kroner not spent on mechs and ASF, who can be used on both defensive and offensive. Also the SI is vary of going into debt and was preoccupied with expanding the Warriors/Harabequisers and rebuilding the Catachan facilities.

Half his mind comes from the 21st century.

 

[PeaceMaker 03]

Defensive structures need to be used to channelize attackers into minefields, Pre-registered artillery kill sacks, or Direct fire kill sacks.

Fixed defense positions need to be mutually supporting, overlapping, and have a mobile defensive element to split any attacker's volume of fire between static/ and mobile defense.

“That wall will not stop my jump capable mechs”!

It is not meant to stop your mechs, but if you decide to jump that wall, you now have medium laser quad turrets, that are at optimal range to your front and rear.

........ They decided to go the easy way, knowing the easy way is always mined.

 

[Knowledgeispower]

Beyond that if Olvetti wasn't willing to give them a small loan to buy a decent AA envelope for WHEN not if their Golden Goose is found by an enemy I can only assume their all fucking retards. It's small area to cover on a large planet there is no reason they don't have enough AA to have any dropship or ASF wing keep their fucking distance until mechs can take them out.

Do keep in mind Olvetti isn't exactly Defiance it doesn't have tons of money lying around and much like the CAC they're spending a lot of money on upgrading and expanding their own facilities.

 

[Lancelot]

Do keep in mind Olvetti isn't exactly Defiance it doesn't have tons of money lying around and much like the CAC they're spending a lot of money on upgrading and expanding their own facilities.

We're not talking about a LOT of money here and in the end if your not a fucking idiot you protect your golden goose. They've had years waiting for someone foreign or domestic to come in a wreak shit. It wasn't a 'if' it was a 'when' so not having enough AA to keep droppers from landing right on top of them, or ASF bombing them to hell and back isn't a matter of 'would be nice' it's a matter of MUST BE DONE.

The need is worth tens of millions in a loan if no one involved has ANY money somehow. Honestly those basic defenses are something you pay for even if it put you behind on EVERYTHING else. This is just common fucking sense.

 

[Wargamer08]

We're not talking about a LOT of money here and in the end if your not a fucking idiot you protect your golden goose. They've had years waiting for someone foreign or domestic to come in a wreak shit. It wasn't a 'if' it was a 'when' so not having enough AA to keep droppers from landing right on top of them, or ASF bombing them to hell and back isn't a matter of 'would be nice' it's a matter of MUST BE DONE.

The need is worth tens of millions in a loan if no one involved has ANY money somehow. Honestly those basic defenses are something you pay for even if it put you behind on EVERYTHING else. This is just common fucking sense.

Well they 99% sure didn’t bother with them. They were too far down the list of things that needed to be bought, shipped, modified for high gravity, installed and manned. You’re reacting like it’s some kind of fatal sin that Weber didn’t really see the need for a bunch of expensive, mostly useless white elephants. As defensive works in Battletech like turrets tend to be both a pain in the ass to install and mostly pointless. Otherwise big stompy Mechs wouldn’t get to stomp around.

 

[Lancelot]

Well they 99% sure didn’t bother with them. They were too far down the list of things that needed to be bought, shipped, modified for high gravity, installed and manned. You’re reacting like it’s some kind of fatal sin that Weber didn’t really see the need for a bunch of expensive, mostly useless white elephants. As defensive works in Battletech like turrets tend to be both a pain in the ass to install and mostly pointless. Otherwise big stompy Mechs wouldn’t get to stomp around.

First this isn't working by canon battletech rules, second I'm not talking about Antimech Turrets, I'm talking about basic bitch Anti Air weapons to keep Dropships from landing right on top of your factories, or simply hover on a fusion torch, and fire down into them where gravity gives you better range.

Also I hope all of Catchan's mechs are pure energy boats. I can't see an extra 25% gravity not having a noticeable effect on the range of missiles, and ballistic weapons.

 

[Wargamer08]

First this isn't working by canon battletech rules, second I'm not talking about Antimech Turrets, I'm talking about basic bitch Anti Air weapons to keep Dropships from landing right on top of your factories, or simply hover on a fusion torch, and fire down into them where gravity gives you better range.

Also I hope all of Catchan's mechs are pure energy boats. I can't see an extra 25% gravity not having a noticeable effect on the range of missiles, and ballistic weapons.

Dude, have you even read the story? Because it sure sounds like you haven’t. A whole bunch of screen time has been spent on the LBX10 autocannon, which most of the heavy metal mount. Most of the lights and mediums are energy and missile mechs. I’m also not sure you understand how little ground fire turrets add, when literally every single mech is able to fire at drop ships.

I’m not talking about canon rules, I’m talking about themes of the setting. The story is set in the Battletech setting, that means that Mechs are legit weapons of war, ablative armour works as intended and you don’t look too hard at tanks, economies and warships. This particular set of Battletech has extended the range so everything isn’t a phonebooth knife fight and unlocked lostech, dubbed foundtech. It has not changed fundament rules of the setting.

 

[Lancelot]

I’m not talking about canon rules, I’m talking about themes of the setting. The story is set in the Battletech setting, that means that Mechs are legit weapons of war, ablative armour works as intended and you don’t look too hard at tanks, economies and warships. This particular set of Battletech has extended the range so everything isn’t a phonebooth knife fight and unlocked lostech, dubbed foundtech. It has not changed fundament rules of the setting.

By the in story rules even normal IS gear fires at multiple kilometers. Also it's easier and cheaper to buy AA turrets then trying to track down and buy the hand full of mechs that have the tech for air targets. Rifleman, Jaggermech, and Partisan cost a lot and tend to be hard to find as well if your not star nation military.

SO pick one turrets because we have money limits or anti air mechs because turrets aren't good enough. NOTHING is not a option unless your a fucking idiot.

 

[Wargamer08]

By the in story rules even normal IS gear fires at multiple kilometers. Also it's easier and cheaper to buy AA turrets then trying to track down and buy the hand full of mechs that have the tech for air targets. Rifleman, Jaggermech, and Partisan cost a lot and tend to be hard to find as well if your not star nation military.

SO pick one turrets because we have money limits or anti air mechs because turrets aren't good enough. NOTHING is not a option unless your a fucking idiot.

Or as I said already other priorities existed.

 

[Lancelot]

Or as I said already other priorities existed.

No they don't. Weber knows he has a target on his back, and if money is a problem he is more then capable of getting a loan. Leaving his people and factories so defenseless that anyone can land right on his front door is stupid beyond words. All the production, and R&D is unless if it's set on fire, which happens all the fucking time in Battletech. So yeah the sane priority is to protect what you have even if it causes delays because it won't help Weber or anyone else being blown up. That means basic defenses.

...Lets just stop this here, we're not saying anything new, and we're not going to change each others minds.

 

[PsihoKekec]

We're not talking about a LOT of money here

Yes we are, it is money not spent on production, it is money not spent on ASF, it is money not spent on mechs. At the end of the day the mobile combat units are still superior to fixed defences.

This is just common fucking sense.

Common sense is building up your mobile combat force and ASF screen.

I can't see an extra 25% gravity not having a noticeable effect on the range of missiles, and ballistic weapons.

Mechs are supposed to operate on worlds all over Inner Sphere, which have wide range of environments and different gravities, so correct calibration of targeting systems should not be an issue.

and if money is a problem he is more then capable of getting a loan

As matter of fact he wasn't. Until he came in contact with Katrina he was trying to keep a low profile, so it would be hard for him to get a multi-hundred million Kroner loan at bank, with purchase of defence turret kits also adding anther trail for intelligence services to track the Catachan.

 

[Lancelot]

Yes we are, it is money not spent on production, it is money not spent on ASF, it is money not spent on mechs. At the end of the day the mobile combat units are still superior to fixed defences.

The problem with that is anti air mechs and dropper chopper ASF aren't easy to get, or cheap. Its a simple matter of better something then nothing. If they can get rifleman, and assault ASF great but if they didn't have the money or access then turrets is what they'll need to use for now.

Mechs are supposed to operate on worlds all over Inner Sphere, which have wide range of environments and different gravities, so correct calibration of targeting systems should not be an issue.

Never said they can't hit what they're aimed at, but with 25% more gravity the ranges of non energy weapons will take a serious hit.

 

[Wargamer08]

Yes we are, it is money not spent on production, it is money not spent on ASF, it is money not spent on mechs. At the end of the day the mobile combat units are still superior to fixed defences.


Common sense is building up your mobile combat force and ASF screen.


Mechs are supposed to operate on worlds all over Inner Sphere, which have wide range of environments and different gravities, so correct calibration of targeting systems should not be an issue.


As matter of fact he wasn't. Until he came in contact with Katrina he was trying to keep a low profile, so it would be hard for him to get a multi-hundred million Kroner loan at bank, with purchase of defence turret kits also adding anther trail for intelligence services to track the Catachan.

To say nothing about that it’s pointless if you buy said turrets and they aren’t on planet. Which leaves some problems for someone trying to keep their location secret. Who is shipping them and who is installing them. All the people working on the planet are already maxed out, as seen by the constant hiring.

I’m also not seeing the point of the turrets in general. People insane enough consider hot dropping at least a couple Mech battalions onto potentially a battalion of elite mercenary Mechs is not going to give a single fuck about defences. See the drop by the Combine onto Hesperus II. Anyone sane is going to know that they don’t know where the garrison is and not risk losing literally everyone to ground to air fire from mechs.

 

[Doomsought]

I’m also not seeing the point of the turrets in general. People insane enough consider hot dropping at least a couple Mech battalions onto potentially a battalion of elite mercenary Mechs is not going to give a single fuck about defences.

Artillery turrets are worth it because artillery they are mostly static anyways and a fixed turret installation can give them the armor to keep them from getting taken out by a lucky aerospace fighter. Anything lighter is better off on something mobile, I'm thinking a few urban mechs and some LRM carriers.

 

[Bear Ribs]

Anybody who's played MechCommander knows exactly how useless turrets are in BT. Or for that matter the BattleTech videogame. Turrets tend to be training-wheels level enemies for 'Mechs and ASF. The bonus to hit immobile targets is massive, essentially making a shot at the edge of long range as likely to hit as a point-blank shot against a moving target.

As @Doomsought says, only artillery turrets are worthwhile because they can hit a Battlemech at longer ranges that the 'mech can likely counter. Anything else is a waste of resources as the 'mech or fighter will destroy the turret well outside the range it's likely to be able to land a hit back.

 

[Knowledgeispower]

Anybody who's played MechCommander knows exactly how useless turrets are in BT. Or for that matter the BattleTech videogame. Turrets tend to be training-wheels level enemies for 'Mechs and ASF. The bonus to hit immobile targets is massive, essentially making a shot at the edge of long range as likely to hit as a point-blank shot against a moving target.

As @Doomsought says, only artillery turrets are worthwhile because they can hit a Battlemech at longer ranges that the 'mech can likely counter. Anything else is a waste of resources as the 'mech or fighter will destroy the turret well outside the range it's likely to be able to land a hit back.

LRM turrets the useful exception though. Especially if they're concealed decently and have spotters