Science Where does enviormental realism start and end?

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In this day and age environmentalism has become an hot topic subject, not because many are against it in of itself, but because it has increasingly been used as a tool to increase government power or funding for various causes. But beyond that to the root of the problem is the ever murky and always fluctuating as needed definition of what is in the end considered environmental.

So my question is where should environmentalism realistically start and end? How much is too much and how little is too little?
 
There are no shortage of meaningful concerns that can be described as "environmentalist", but they mostly focus on an intangible and easily mitigated consequences of a byproduct of life itself. Then they stopped when there was something new to fit that description. It's pretty clearly the leftist department of controlled opposition.
 
Environmental realism is actually easy to define and find a way to test for.

If someone claims to care about the environment, yet hates nuclear energy, they aren't a realist about the environment.

A lot of other issues are more nebulous to define the terms around, but nuclear power is an easy litmus test.
 
One big Shibboleth for me is Hunting and Fishing. Since the megapredators that once preyed on animals like deer, hogs, and the like are gone, humans have to fill the gap and hunt them to keep the numbers in balance. Additionally, most of the money paid for hunting and fishing licenses goes to directly support wildlife refuges and such, it's a major source of income for those projects.

People who have done their research and are genuinely looking at solutions to real environmental problems usually know this and will support hunting and fishing, and even want to increase them (We're kinda facing a hogpocalypse right now as there just isn't enough hunting going on to keep them from spreading like the Zerg, and a Deerpocalypse from insufficient hunting is on the way).

Meanwhile, people who have no actual knowledge and have weird notions of how peaceful, harmonious, and wonderful nature is will call you a murderer for wanting to kill a beautiful creature like Bami's mother.
 
Any group who wants to tackle a specific issue, in a specific location, who is willing to find out the how and why to get the best result, is an actual environmentalist.

I might disagree with them on any particular issue, but they are doing the work required to find an actual solution.


It's a pity there's almost none who do the thinking required.



On that basis? Any member of the Green party is certainly not one.
 
Clean air - ok.
Clean water- ok.
Recycling plastics and not throwing them in the Ocean - ok.
Researching alternate energy sources for that time coal and oil run out - ok.
Banning gaseous plant food and forcing people to buy energy produced from wind/solar - yeah, fuck no!
Banning straws and gaming PCs - californiatardation.
 
Banning gaseous plant food and forcing people to buy energy produced from wind/solar - yeah, fuck no!
I think subsidizing green energy on a home basis is okay provided it isn't forced upon anyone. Oil isn't an unlimited resource in the long haul and probably will only get more expensive in the long run, diversifying energy needs is a good thing for a country's self-sufficiency.
 
I think subsidizing green energy on a home basis is okay provided it isn't forced upon anyone. Oil isn't an unlimited resource in the long haul and probably will only get more expensive in the long run, diversifying energy needs is a good thing for a country's self-sufficiency.
I am literally forced to "buy" n percent of my total energy consumption in the form of green energy.
Also, green energy providers get subsidies.
 
In this day and age environmentalism has become an hot topic subject, not because many are against it in of itself, but because it has increasingly been used as a tool to increase government power or funding for various causes. But beyond that to the root of the problem is the ever murky and always fluctuating as needed definition of what is in the end considered environmental.

So my question is where should environmentalism realistically start and end? How much is too much and how little is too little?
I think the rule of thumb should be "could you explain the benefits in a way that would be accepted as worthwhile by an average 60 year old farmer".
Why farmers? Because by virtue of their profession they need to have some knowledge about environmental matters that directly affect people and some skin in the game on top of that - if groundwater is poison, that's not someone else's problem, that means their crops will fucking die. They also have skin in the game of not listening to crazy vegans&co that want to force their cultish behavior on everyone by any excuse.
Or in other words, environmental policy should be decided by cold cost-benefit calculation, not by whatever ideologues care to yell the loudest and most often about environmental policy.
And yes, that specifically implies the policy has to have meaningful benefits, for people of the country paying for it. Which in itself is not something obvious to green nutjobs.
I think subsidizing green energy on a home basis is okay provided it isn't forced upon anyone. Oil isn't an unlimited resource in the long haul and probably will only get more expensive in the long run, diversifying energy needs is a good thing for a country's self-sufficiency.
Everyone already has that in reverse, as in all the fossil fuels are taxed, in some countries very heavily. Diversifying energy sources is good, but that cannot be limited to politically correct sources, and those in turn should not be favored with high subsidies.
Imagine how many nuclear power plants could be built with all those subsidies those get. Meanwhile, a NPP has an expected lifetime 3-4x that of wind or solar plants. To add insult to injury, the main problems with nuclear power expansion are organizational financial and legal ones, aka problems that can in fact be solved with the stroke of a pen, rather than requiring inventing new technologies that may have issues of their own or a whole new electric grid.
One big Shibboleth for me is Hunting and Fishing. Since the megapredators that once preyed on animals like deer, hogs, and the like are gone, humans have to fill the gap and hunt them to keep the numbers in balance. Additionally, most of the money paid for hunting and fishing licenses goes to directly support wildlife refuges and such, it's a major source of income for those projects.

People who have done their research and are genuinely looking at solutions to real environmental problems usually know this and will support hunting and fishing, and even want to increase them (We're kinda facing a hogpocalypse right now as there just isn't enough hunting going on to keep them from spreading like the Zerg, and a Deerpocalypse from insufficient hunting is on the way).

Meanwhile, people who have no actual knowledge and have weird notions of how peaceful, harmonious, and wonderful nature is will call you a murderer for wanting to kill a beautiful creature like Bami's mother.
Hunting and livestock are the pet peeve of vegans and other crazy hippies, bonus points if they are city people who have no idea what they are talking about.
 
Hunting and livestock are the pet peeve of vegans and other crazy hippies, bonus points if they are city people who have no idea what they are talking about.
I'm bugged by the ones that want to ban livestock and think cattle are eating valuable grain that could be given to humans, but I cut them a slight amount of slack compared with hunting.

There are legit places where the farmland is so productive that it really would be wasteful to do anything but grow crops on it (The San Fernando Valley with its 30' thick ridiculously rich alluvial topsoil is one such) so I allow that it's possible for someone to have grown up in such a location and think it's the baseline.

However there is nowhere you can have even the slightest understanding of how ecology works and not realize that herbivores must be hunted and culled to prevent overpopulation, starvation, and eventually a disease outbreak. A person who believes wild animals will just live in harmony with each other is either so ignorant they cannot possibly have an opinion worth considering or is actively ignoring facts they know are true in favor of ideology.
 
I'm bugged by the ones that want to ban livestock and think cattle are eating valuable grain that could be given to humans, but I cut them a slight amount of slack compared with hunting.

There are legit places where the farmland is so productive that it really would be wasteful to do anything but grow crops on it (The San Fernando Valley with its 30' thick ridiculously rich alluvial topsoil is one such) so I allow that it's possible for someone to have grown up in such a location and think it's the baseline.

However there is nowhere you can have even the slightest understanding of how ecology works and not realize that herbivores must be hunted and culled to prevent overpopulation, starvation, and eventually a disease outbreak. A person who believes wild animals will just live in harmony with each other is either so ignorant they cannot possibly have an opinion worth considering or is actively ignoring facts they know are true in favor of ideology.
I have a simple way to decrease human plant consumption and get bacon.
Pigs are omnivores, so we just feed the vegans and vegetarians to them.

What, it is not technically cannibalism, it is recycling.
 
I have a simple way to decrease human plant consumption and get bacon.
Pigs are omnivores, so we just feed the vegans and vegetarians to them.

What, it is not technically cannibalism, it is recycling.
Please don't write shit like this when others happen to be eating. This place is for essays and commentaries, not morbid revenge fantasies.
 
Please don't write shit like this when others happen to be eating. This place is for essays and commentaries, not morbid revenge fantasies.
keep-calm-its-only-a-joke-2.png
 
Green energy has problems.

13-globalwindsolarpotential-cutaways-vi-01-scaled.jpg


See this map?

If you live in the blue zone you live in a place where wind is a viable power source.
If you live in green you live in an area where solar makes sense.
Dark green solar and wind works, if you live in australia this is your chance to feel some pride your country is an ideal environemnt.

The problem for both sources of power is that its inconsistent, if battery technology wasn't so shit and that is what is holding back all of the cool shit then these two power sources would become more viable, but they would still not be a replacement. Solar helps, wind helps, but if you want to power modern civilization with minimal environmental impact.

You want nuclear, thankfully they are working on little mini nuclear power plants so instead of the big six year minimum model to build a nuclear powerplant we are reaching the ability to build small ones with ten years of juice for less cost, using less space and all of it costing less money.

There are workable solutions in sight we just have to be pragmatic about it.
 
If you live in the blue zone you live in a place where wind is a viable power source.
If you live in green you live in an area where solar makes sense.
Dark green solar and wind works, if you live in australia this is your chance to feel some pride your country is an ideal environemnt.
Nope.

Sure, we have wind and sunshine, but the tech is fundimentaly flawed, and even power storage isn't really enough, because we still can't be certain we'll have enough when we need it. And, every extra step both adds to costs, and disapates some of the gathered power.

Frankly, the best "green" power type is Hydro, and there's quite a few places where we could use it. We just need to flood a few valleys. Somehow, that always means "The Rare, Endagered, Red Buggering Bugger might go Extinct!", so not allowed.


There are workable solutions in sight we just have to be pragmatic about it.
Sure.

How many Greens are we going to have to put down, before they stop breaking anything, I wonder?
 
Here is one important thing you are all forgetting.
This ecoalarmist cult gibberish is being preached to children.
If religion has no place in schools and if patriotism has no place in schools then the quasi-religion of green reeing and freakouts should not have a place there,either!
They scare young kids with "documentaries" and have them take part in publicity stunts, and generally brainwash them into eco activism.

Things get worse because the kids often never ever grow up because society infantilizes them.
Their literal, be all end all analogy these overgrown children can make is that of "we are Harry Potter and X evil of the week is literally Voldemort."
I mean,there was polling that said that a major percentage of teens and young adults feel crippling anxiety because they think the world is ending due to pollution global warming climate change climate disruption.
Kids have actually killed themselves over this crap,and Greta Tunaface is a prime example of what this indoctrination, coupled with grifter parents, can spawn.
Frankly,the econuts have gotten as far as they have because conservatives in the west have precious little influence on education.
 
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