Philosophy Why I can't stand collectivism: AKA the truth behind the horseshoe theory

[KilroywasNOTHere]

I'm having a hard time grasping the point of your philosophy. You call it "the truth behind the horseshoe theory" but then barely talk about the horseshoe theory only mentioning it once in passing in your essay. Here is the truth about the horseshoe theory: If you try to plot out political ideologies and it ends up looking like a horseshoe, its because you are either using the wrong metrics or incorrectly categorizing a group.

Your whole essay seems to hinge on the idea that the "Alt-Right" is actually right wing. I totally disagree with that assertion.

The American right-wing has ALWAYS been founded in the ideals of classical liberalism and its intense emphasis on Individualism. The American left is firmly centered around collectivism which is more than abundantly clear in its current fervor for identity politics.

The Alt-Right isn't right wing at all, the term was coined by the low IQ individual Richard Spencer who claims to cherish western civilization but just recently tweeted: "Hagia Sophia is a monument to *eternity*, not a museum to the past. Though I have mixed feelings on the matter, and on President Erdogan, I ultimately support the cathedral's transformation into a mosque and being put into the care of Muslims." The man is an unhinged quack who is just trying to fill any power vacuum he sees and the left wing media is more than happy to run with this name because it gives their base an enemy to fight and its easier than admitting that left wing ideology is once again eating itself alive.

I think the term Alt-Right is throwing you for a loop because you are taking it at face value. The Alt-Right is nothing more than a continuation of the ideology of the collectivist left because it is left wing. There is no horseshoe here. You have two groups of Authoritarian Collectivists who hate each other (Antifa/SJW/BLM vs "Alt-Right"/NeoNazis) and they hate each other because they are trying to occupy the same ground of left wing ideology.

Collectivism = Left-wing, Individualism = Right-wing, it seems you have a problem with the left and left-wing ideology. You're not dealing with a horseshoe you're dealing with a straight line. You're not caught in the middle between wolves and coyotes all your enemies are in one single place. I understand that you don't like collectivists, I don't either, but you aren't in the middle of a horseshoe.

my biggest fear and my biggest concern is that I think we're starting to develop a bit of a tumor on the right. Whether these new collictivist are Right winged or not, they are gladly claiming the name and for better or worse, as the left gets more braze, the Alt-right is reciving conservatives in droves. Once the left implodes (Which I believe is going to be sooner than later given the state of things) there's going to be a new dichotomy. Either were going to have to create a new right and a new left, or we are going to have to ditch those labels and do something else, problem is Conservatives tend to sit quietly and just let both sides take and twist labels however they please, there are two sides one claiming to be traditionalist right and the other a post-moderism left. but for most of us on the outside looking in, we see two sides of collectivism, one with a faux-christian skin, the other with a Marxism skin.

Conservatives need to stop being cowards and tell both sides to politically go jump off a cliff, preferably on national television. Otherwise we have no right to complain about being politically and culturally uprooted.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

my biggest fear and my biggest concern is that I think we're starting to develop a bit of a tumor on the right. Whether these new collictivist are Right winged or not, they are gladly claiming the name and for better or worse, as the left gets more braze, the Alt-right is reciving conservatives in droves. Once the left implodes (Which I believe is going to be sooner than later given the state of things) there's going to be a new dichotomy. Either were going to have to create a new right and a new left, or we are going to have to ditch those labels and do something else, problem is Conservatives tend to sit quietly and just let both sides take and twist labels however they please, there are two sides one claiming to be traditionalist right and the other a post-moderism left. but for most of us on the outside looking in, we see two sides of collectivism, one with a faux-christian skin, the other with a Marxism skin.

Conservatives need to stop being cowards and tell both sides to go jump a cliff, perferably on national television.

I've been of a theory that you Westerners could have a future conflict between the "Religious Right" and the more"Libertarian Right"

The first will live up to a bunch of stereotypes and be "I'm pro-free market, but will do anything to stop people from enjoying anything I consider to go against my tradition values and those nerds have to be forced out of those distracting immoral hobbies lest they destroy society through their sheer apathy"

While the latter is a more "You don't bother me, I don't bother you, now l'm going to that casino you guys all scream at for being immoral"

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

I've been of a theory that you Westerners could have a future conflict between the "Religious Right" and the more"Libertarian Right"

The first will live up to a bunch of stereotypes and be "I'm pro-free market, but will do anything to stop people from enjoying anything I consider to go against my tradition values and those nerds have to be forced out of those distracting immoral hobbies lest they destroy society through their sheer apathy"

While the latter is a more "You don't bother me, I don't bother you, now l'm going to that casino you guys all scream at for being immoral"

so essentially what your talking about is USA cira 1980s during the Regan era. The era of megachurches with the size and influence of corporations.

 

[LifeisTiresome]

I get what your saying, (hence the like) but at the same time, isn't that essentially saying that man is will always just self destruct once things play out to their natural conclusion? At that point you might as well just drain the system for all it's worth and then move on to the next one in which case....that's dismal.

Thats just how reality is. You are showing the same nihilism leftists do where everything is oppressive and needs to be torn down and better humanity goes extinct cause everything is oppression.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

so essentially what your talking about is USA cira 1980s during the Regan era. The era of megachurches with the size and influence of corporations.

More-Or-Less, even without entertainment being "immoral" to be censored, the fact that people choose to disengage using video games and other media as a distraction is deadlier to society than any feminist or sjw or communist around

They all gotta be forced into the "nuclear family" ASAP

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

Thats just how reality is. You are showing the same nihilism leftists do where everything is oppressive and needs to be torn down and better humanity goes extinct cause everything is oppression.

well if might makes right? Why are we complaining? We lost, too bad so sad sucks to be us. In other words....

 

[LifeisTiresome]

well if might makes right? Why are we complaining? We lost, too bad so sad sucks to be us.

The left are trying to impose things on all of us. We don't like it hence we need to try and push back/fight back. if we win? We win. If we lose? We lose.

Seriously, thats what the left did. They fought and pushed back and infiltrated and thus are wining. So if we don't want to give them permanent victory, we push back and try and win. This is like two armies clashing against each other to impose their goals onto reality of how things should be.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

The left are trying to impose things on all of us. We don't like it hence we need to try and push back/fight back. if we win? We win. If we lose? We lose.

Seriously, thats what the left did. They fought and pushed back and infiltrated and thus are wining. So if we don't want to give them permanent victory, we push back and try and win. This is like two armies clashing against each other to impose their goals onto reality of how things should be.

My culture is gone my hobbies are burning and I'm surrounded by two sides who want nothing to do with people like me and would frankly rather see people like me gone. All I have left is my small circle of friends and a means to possibly defend myself in case of a home invasion. As far as I'm concerned I already lost, as much as I try to fight it part of me is just waiting for someone to finish the job. The rest of me just wants to have some peace and quite till the inevitable firing squads happen. I'm tired. I'm tired of the noise, tired of the rhetoric, I'm just tired.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

My culture is gone my hobbies are burning and I'm surrounded by two sides who want nothing to do with people like me and would frankly rather see people like me gone. All I have left is my small circle of friends and a means to possibly defend myself in case of a home invasion. As far as I'm concerned I already lost, as much as I try to fight it part of me is just waiting for someone to finish the job. The rest of me just wants to have some peace and quite till the inevitable firing squads happen. I'm tired. I'm tired of the noise, tired of the rhetoric, I'm just tired.

Forgive me for my outright pessimism, but I have little hope in this world.

 

[GodIsaSerb]

@GodIsaSerb
What about all of these “traditional values” stuff that I’ve seen more “Religious Right” people and “Social Conservatives” online tout?

They really fucking want to have much of entertainment banned and force people into their nuclear family ideal

Yes especially during the 80's and 90's you saw a ton of these morality police stances coming from Republicans. Republicans adopting leftist, collectivist ideals. The moral panic we saw from Christians in the 80's / 90's very closely mirrors the moral panic we see from todays far left regarding Ethnicity, Gender, Pronouns, etc. because it is rooted in the same leftist ideology of collectivism.

my biggest fear and my biggest concern is that I think we're starting to develop a bit of a tumor on the right. Whether these new collictivist are Right winged or not, they are gladly claiming the name and for better or worse, as the left gets more braze, the Alt-right is reciving conservatives in droves. Once the left implodes (Which I believe is going to be sooner than later given the state of things) there's going to be a new dichotomy. Either were going to have to create a new right and a new left, or we are going to have to ditch those labels and do something else, problem is Conservatives tend to sit quietly and just let both sides take and twist labels however they please, there are two sides one claiming to be traditionalist right and the other a post-moderism left. but for most of us on the outside looking in, we see two sides of collectivism, one with a faux-christian skin, the other with a Marxism skin.

Conservatives need to stop being cowards and tell both sides to politically go jump off a cliff, preferably on national television. Otherwise we have no right to complain about being politically and culturally uprooted.

I think you are correct to a degree but its the Republicans that are growing a bit of a collectivist tumor with the new "Alt-Right". People feel safer and stronger in groups so as the Democrats group up more and more the Republicans are going to do the same because it helps them feel more cohesive and in the act they are abandoning the right-wing ideals of Individualism that got them to this point. I also think you are correct that the Democrats will implode soon as they are not currently practicing a sustainable ideology and it has so rabidly devoured the right that it is now gnawing on its own leg looking for new enemies. When the Democrats implode the successor party will be based on a new platform echoing some of the ideals of the old but framed around a new contemporary topic of issues. I think the Republicans will implode soon after or have a major ideological re-alignment as they will have to re-adjust to oppose the new Democratic party. But in the end I wouldn't worry too much. There is a reason why Individualism has appealed to humanity since the dawn of time. People like being judged based on their own merits and want to believe they exist in a society where they can achieve anything they want if they try hard enough. This human desire will always exist and it will manifest itself in a new party because you cannot neutralize innate human desires so even though we might go through a period of time where things get dark the pendulum will eternally swing back and forth and Individualism will always come back (and then diminish and then come back on and on and on)

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

Yes especially during the 80's and 90's you saw a ton of these morality police stances coming from Republicans. Republicans adopting leftist, collectivist ideals. The moral panic we saw from Christians in the 80's / 90's very closely mirrors the moral panic we see from todays far left regarding Ethnicity, Gender, Pronouns, etc. because it is rooted in the same leftist ideology of collectivism.



I think you are correct to a degree but its the Republicans that are growing a bit of a collectivist tumor with the new "Alt-Right". People feel safer and stronger in groups so as the Democrats group up more and more the Republicans are going to do the same because it helps them feel more cohesive and in the act they are abandoning the right-wing ideals of Individualism that got them to this point. I also think you are correct that the Democrats will implode soon as they are not currently practicing a sustainable ideology and it has so rabidly devoured the right that it is now gnawing on its own leg looking for new enemies. When the Democrats implode the successor party will be based on a new platform echoing some of the ideals of the old but framed around a new contemporary topic of issues. I think the Republicans will implode soon after or have a major ideological re-alignment as they will have to re-adjust to oppose the new Democratic party. But in the end I wouldn't worry too much. There is a reason why Individualism has appealed to humanity since the dawn of time. People like being judged based on their own merits and want to believe they exist in a society where they can achieve anything they want if they try hard enough. This human desire will always exist and it will manifest itself in a new party because you cannot neutralize innate human desires so even though we might go through a period of time where things get dark the pendulum will eternally swing back and forth and Individualism will always come back (and then diminish and then come back on and on and on)

I hope you're right man, cause honestly my hope for a bright future is gone.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

Yes especially during the 80's and 90's you saw a ton of these morality police stances coming from Republicans. Republicans adopting leftist, collectivist ideals. The moral panic we saw from Christians in the 80's / 90's very closely mirrors the moral panic we see from todays far left regarding Ethnicity, Gender, Pronouns, etc. because it is rooted in the same leftist ideology of collectivism.

Yeah, though gotta admit, I think the reason they failed way more was they were merely on Stage One of Censorship

You can't show/say/depict the following things

SJW's are on Stage Two. You HAVE to show/say/depict the following things.....also it's popularity contest within the "industry" itself and some people can get away with things more than others. Like how The Last of Us 2 has that sex scene with Abby being shown but censoring much of Japan's stuff.....yeah to begin with Abby looks like a dude so nothing fanservicey there but it shows.

They also are semi-inconsistent on said censorship given that there's still fanservice or"sexist" outfits shown like with Gwenpool, Harley Quinn and Psylocke got her leotard back....yeah basically you can getaway with things depending on your alignment

The Far Left of today unlike those Right Wingers of the 80s/90s were on the narrative of "Fuck The Man" and being "rebellious" AF even before the 2010s....basically they at the very least tried pretending they were PART of the hobby unlike the guys who simply censor with Stage1

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

yeah to begin with Abby looks like a dude so nothing fanservicey there but it shows

People keep saying abby looks like a dude but I don't see it, she's muscular sure, but she's far from lady looks like a dude.

 

[LifeisTiresome]

Yeah, though gotta admit, I think the reason they failed way more was they were merely on Stage One of Censorship

You can't show/say/depict the following things

SJW's are on Stage Two. You HAVE to show/say/depict the following things.....also it's popularity contest within the "industry" itself and some people can get away with things more than others. Like how The Last of Us 2 has that sex scene with Abby being shown but censoring much of Japan's stuff.....yeah to begin with Abby looks like a dude so nothing fanservicey there but it shows.

They also are semi-inconsistent on said censorship given that there's still fanservice or"sexist" outfits shown like with Gwenpool, Harley Quinn and Psylocke got her leotard back....yeah basically you can getaway with things depending on your alignment

The Far Left of today unlike those Right Wingers of the 80s/90s were on the narrative of "Fuck The Man" and being "rebellious" AF even before the 2010s....basically they at the very least tried pretending they were PART of the hobby unlike the guys who simply censor with Stage1

The Right wingers of old merely wanted you to stop viewing shit they didn't want. You could circumvent this and be able to watch what you want.

Leftists actively attack and change what you want to see and make it into their little pet projects destroying everything you ever loved about the thing in question.

Leftists are far more successful then then right wingers ever were.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

The Right wingers of old merely wanted you to stop viewing shit they didn't want. You could circumvent this and be able to watch what you want.

Leftists actively attack and change what you want to see and make it into their little pet projects destroying everything you ever loved about the thing in question.

Leftists are far more successful then then right wingers ever were.

*looks at the smuldering remains of geek culture* yep that's about right. But why does it seem like people on the right activly want everything to burn around them as the left implodes? What do they except to happen when the trainwreck finally ends and there is nothing left but ash?

 

[CarlManvers2019]

*looks at the smuldering remains of geek culture* yep that's about right. But why does it seem like people on the right activly want everything to burn around them as the left implodes? What do they except to happen when the trainwreck finally ends and there is nothing left but ash?

I think their belief is that the big corporations and old media are unsalvageable, but people will STILL want entertainment, so someone or somebody else's can provide it

Also, it's carthasis, some people are waiting for the day when the people who've been calling them all sorts of paranoid conspiracy theorist shit look at the smoldering remains or burning house and regret not having listened

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

I think their belief is that the big corporations and old media are unsalvageable.

Funny how the french revolutionaries thought the same thing. we saw how that turned out.

Also, it's carthasis, some people are waiting for the day when the people who've been calling them all sorts of paranoid conspiracy theorist shit look at the smoldering remains or burning house and regret not having listened

My main question to these people were "and what are you going to do about it." It seems like anytime I talked about well let's fix it is. "Let the past die kill it if you have to...fight fire with fire....blah blah blah" and man i hate memes!!!!

 

[LifeisTiresome]

I think their belief is that the big corporations and old media are unsalvageable, but people will STILL want entertainment, so someone or somebody else's can provide it

Also, it's carthasis, some people are waiting for the day when the people who've been calling them all sorts of paranoid conspiracy theorist shit look at the smoldering remains or burning house and regret not having listened

Funny how the french revolutionaries thought the same thing. we saw how that turned out.



My main question to these people were "and what are you going to do about it." It seems like anytime I talked about well let's fix it is. "Let the past die kill it if you have to...fight fire with fire....blah blah blah" and man i hate memes!!!!

The companies and so on are unsalvageable. They hire only more and more SJW's and all the corporations bow before them. Why you guys love corporations I have no idea.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

The companies and so on are unsalvageable. They hire only more and more SJW's and all the corporations bow before them. Why you guys love corporations I have no idea.

not so much the corperations as much as the IPs Star wars Spider-man, Justice League ect, They are the closest things to modern myths our culture has.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

The companies and so on are unsalvageable. They hire only more and more SJW's and all the corporations bow before them. Why you guys love corporations I have no idea.

Honestly, only way I can see these entertainment companies changing is if the guys ontop decide not to simply run away with the remaining cash but to go hire some extremely strict perfectionist editors

And fire people who become an actual problem