CarlManvers2019
Writers Blocked Douchebag
There were women characters in fiction already, the WAHMEN just introduced WAHMEN characters and decides to turn the Women into WAHMEN too
Women/Wahmen Characters In Pop Culture and Media
- Thread starter CarlManvers2019
- Start date
There were women characters in fiction already, the WAHMEN just introduced WAHMEN characters and decides to turn the Women into WAHMEN too
LifeisTiresome
Well-known member
You notice how Batwoman kinda looks like a guy or acts in masculine ways?
They say they hate toxic masculinity but love it when the wahman do it.
CarlManvers2019
Writers Blocked Douchebag
They’re definitely pumping testosterone into their female fictional characters and actors these days
Doesn’t help that most women in Hollywood look like sticks to me
LifeisTiresome
Well-known member
Its why the claims about toxic masculinity are bullshit. They are just shaming men for being men.
But when wahmen do it, its so brave and stunning.
Whats even funnier is that they say, men express your feelings but when men do, they ridicule you. What they really mean, express politically correct feelings like how you want to become trans.
CarlManvers2019
Writers Blocked Douchebag
Perhaps they KNOW the truth, probably even know that people like OTHER women characters
prinCZess
Warrior, Writer, Performer, Perv
To bounce off this...Female characters, perhaps especially in superhero(ine) movies, have a weird tendency to get incredibly bad writing--and that's something of a modern item that created it's own existence as a bias?
Like, the first big-budget superheroine movies I recall of the 'modern' generation are Elektra and Catwoman w/Halle Berry. And both are...just terrible. Elektra is a slog to sit through, and about the only context anyone talks of Catwoman is 'Wow. Halle Berry is fun to see in a dominatrix costume. Was there something else?'
Meanwhile, decades prior there's Newmar/Meriwether/Kitt succession of Catwoman portrayals on the Batman TV series which I recall being universally praised, Michelle Pfeiffer in Batman Returns that I recall being good and well-received (might be wrong).
And, well, to expand from Catwoman, you have Wonder Woman with a standalone series that did well, a succession of superheroine-focused tangents in the DC animated universe that oftentimes got praised for solid presentation and entertainment value by the same target demographic that point out how garbage other examples are, and just a bunch of superheroine stuff that did well that seemingly did get sidelined or ignored by Hollywood because the presumption was folks wouldn't go see a big-budget superheroine movie based solely on the flopping of big-budget superheroine movies that were made that were objective garbage.
To run with another example/rant, say what you will of Joss Whedon's possible personal creepiness and fetishes, at least he manages to oftentimes write decent female characters and media. Buffy the Vampire Slayer as the obvious example, and Zoe Washburne and River Tam as the mimetic, cult-hit favorites of Firefly. Dunnow if Black Widow qualifies in the Avengers...But maybe that's Johannson's wooden, stilted acting buggering things (or my own dislike for her in the role).
Or take Captain Marvel against Wonder Woman. You've got a pretty big overlap in audiences who thought the former was crap and thought the latter was at least decent to actively good. Even being rather unimpressed with Wonder Woman myself, I can say it was better than Captain Marvel--which never managed to grab my attention, while WW just lost it midway through because of some drag and silliness...Regardless, there's probably a difference in writing that results in that.
Of course, be it noted that criticism based off silly standards of 'Women are bad in my movies herp!' isn't dead--see whatever cluster of a controversy there was over Charlize Theron in the Mad Max film, which by popular account (and my own reckoning) was damn good and had some spot-on writing and execution that STILL got some level of condemnation from silly folks on the internet 'because women'. So...Not a nonexistent phenomenon. But also a phenomenon that can be appealed to as a 'defense' (see the Ghostbusters remake that nobody liked because it was a pretty crappy movie).
It doesn't help that folks wanting well-written female characters don't always want the same style of well-written female characters. Writing 'men with tits' gets derided a lot, but sometimes that's a general style that's fair to go for because it fits the story and because, by-gum, it well fulfills the old harp of 'Anything you can do I can do better!' There's a number of pretty universal themes impacting folks regardless of sex--there's just a tendency for female characters to be done-up with a tendency for emoting to be seen as well-done (perhaps too much) and male characters to be hit with the stoic-stick. Because gender roles and shit.
...And that's prinCZess late-night rambling bullshit on social issues in media. Tune in next week when I get into a fistfight in the sci-fi section over Female Space Marines in WH40K!
Can't say I've ever seen anyone hate on Mad Max: Fury Road "because women." If anything, it's "because feminism." 
Myself, for all the visual spectacle, I didn't see much story or character depth, and aspects of it just didn't make sense. Like the ending, where that wreck is supposed to keep all the bad men away somehow, even though earlier, the giant pile of boulders didn't. Maybe eventually I'll write a full review on it, if I ever get back to writing reviews, that is. :/
Myself, for all the visual spectacle, I didn't see much story or character depth, and aspects of it just didn't make sense. Like the ending, where that wreck is supposed to keep all the bad men away somehow, even though earlier, the giant pile of boulders didn't. Maybe eventually I'll write a full review on it, if I ever get back to writing reviews, that is. :/
CarlManvers2019
Writers Blocked Douchebag
Can't say I've ever seen anyone hate on Mad Max: Fury Road "because women." If anything, it's "because feminism."
Closest thing I can see that was “Feminism” in there was the undertone that the current state of the world is
BECAUSE OF MEN!!!
And their creation of fire and love of explosions and war to make MORE explosions!!!
Video is blocked.
I'm sure they can recommend you some nice MSNBC or Wall Street Journal YouTube clips as a suitable alternative.
Blocked for me as well.
CarlManvers2019
Writers Blocked Douchebag
You know that reminds me, I think I heard this "criticism" before that male characters can't or don't show themselves being "unmanly"
I'm pretty sure there are many moments in fiction wherein men are shown crying, usually for somebody else or losing said somebody they loved and/or respected
It's said love, respect, friendship, attachment and sadness that makes a guy a MAN rather than a BEAST
CarlManvers2019
Writers Blocked Douchebag
Though at times, I think the BEAST is something you'd get more of as an antagonist
A sort of male who's got much of a libido for BOTH sexual and violence for its own sake and with little to no conscience of whom it is inflicted on and shows no admiration, respect, mercy or sadness towards opponents
I REALLY gotta recommend you all watch Primal.
There is more to life than survival and even a primitive caveman can understand that.
WARNING YOU MAY CRY A BIT IN THE FIRST EPISODE BUT REMEMBER THESE ARE FICTIONAL CHARACTERS AND NOBODY TALKS!!!
A sort of male who's got much of a libido for BOTH sexual and violence for its own sake and with little to no conscience of whom it is inflicted on and shows no admiration, respect, mercy or sadness towards opponents
I REALLY gotta recommend you all watch Primal.
There is more to life than survival and even a primitive caveman can understand that.
WARNING YOU MAY CRY A BIT IN THE FIRST EPISODE BUT REMEMBER THESE ARE FICTIONAL CHARACTERS AND NOBODY TALKS!!!
Lanmandragon
Well-known member
Destroying masculinity in men is a necessary step. Women as great as they are don't fight revolutions. You can't have things like men standing in the way of the "glorious revolution".
CarlManvers2019
Writers Blocked Douchebag
Honestly, I'm pretty sure even traditionally feminine women are stronger people than demasculinized men.
And those women characters adopting "masculine" characteristics only fail at it, because writers are trying sorta hard to make em so
These ladies just feel right
ShieldWife
Marchioness
One of my favorite action movie women has always been Sarah Connor from Terminator II. She is what you might call a strong woman character, she is skilled in combat, beats people up, and has a number of other useful abilities.
Despite that, she isn’t a Mary Sue at all. She gets injured and scared, she is wrong about things and has moral flaws, she has well defined physical and mental limits. She’s interesting because she is a three dimensional character who makes the transformation from docile damsel in distress in the first movie when she learns about the apocalyptic future and has to raise her son to be the savior, she also changed again as her attitudes soften somewhat through the movie.
I haven’t seen it, but I’m worried about what they are going to do with her in the new movie. Movies lately don’t have such a good track record with female characters. It was better 30 years ago.
Despite that, she isn’t a Mary Sue at all. She gets injured and scared, she is wrong about things and has moral flaws, she has well defined physical and mental limits. She’s interesting because she is a three dimensional character who makes the transformation from docile damsel in distress in the first movie when she learns about the apocalyptic future and has to raise her son to be the savior, she also changed again as her attitudes soften somewhat through the movie.
I haven’t seen it, but I’m worried about what they are going to do with her in the new movie. Movies lately don’t have such a good track record with female characters. It was better 30 years ago.
For me, the best example I've seen of a truly well done 'strong female character' is Auntie Entity from Mad Max: Beyond the Thunderdome.
CarlManvers2019
Writers Blocked Douchebag
Been awhile since I watched Beyond the Thunderdome
Auntie Entity, I think, could be said to have been surprisingly nice at the end. Or am I remembering things wrong?
Harlock
I should have expected that really
Sarah Connor and Ellen Ripley are the gold standard for the strong woman and rightly so, Aliens is basically two mothers brawling over their kids
But let me throw in another classic 80s icon, Red Sonja!
Now there you have a character who genuinely could kick most anyone's backside, she does have the rare physical presence to realistically be a female warrior. Yet she is still a woman, not a female trying to be male, she retains the feminine despite having enough muscle to flip a truck.
Bonus points for fighting Conan's girlfriend in that movie too, another female who was believable as a warrior.
Honourable mention to Grace Jones too, though her brand of feminine was a lot more aggressive.
But let me throw in another classic 80s icon, Red Sonja!
Now there you have a character who genuinely could kick most anyone's backside, she does have the rare physical presence to realistically be a female warrior. Yet she is still a woman, not a female trying to be male, she retains the feminine despite having enough muscle to flip a truck.
Bonus points for fighting Conan's girlfriend in that movie too, another female who was believable as a warrior.
Honourable mention to Grace Jones too, though her brand of feminine was a lot more aggressive.
D
Deleted member
Guest
Come on ladies and gentlemen, here is the very perfect ideal of a strong woman.