Sure you're not confusing me with someone else? I don't think I've talked about my personal life much here.
maybe so.
Sure you're not confusing me with someone else? I don't think I've talked about my personal life much here.
See: the large number of left wing atheists screeching about believing in science and trusting the experts. Atheist libertarians worship the concept of liberty most often, their morality is guided by the idea of some natural right as human beings and the NAP. And then you have politically very racist atheists who worship their own race, like white nationalists.All men worship something, something that justifies themselves and their actions. If it isn't God, it's something else. Even atheists worship themselves.
See: the large number of left wing atheists screeching about believing in science and trusting the experts.
The treatment of Dr Fauci as a saint too shows it clearly."Experts" are starting to become the new clerical/priestly class in our society: "do what they say because... they're the experts! The science backs them up!".
"Well, if the science backs them up, they should be able to produce the data that supports their conclusions; right?" "Shut up! They don't have to prove anything to you; you're stupid and poor, and a racist/sexist!""Experts" are starting to become the new clerical/priestly class in our society: "do what they say because... they're the experts! The science backs them up!".
That would just be projection on your part. The closest I come to "worshiping" anything is in my fondness for tomboys.All men worship something, something that justifies themselves and their actions. If it isn't God, it's something else. Even atheists worship themselves.
That in it of itself is pseudo-religious thinking lol.That would just be projection on your part. The closest I come to "worshiping" anything is in my fondness for tomboys.
All men worship something, something that justifies themselves and their actions. If it isn't God, it's something else. Even atheists worship themselves.
Indeed, this does appear to be projection on your part, Val.That would just be projection on your part. The closest I come to "worshiping" anything is in my fondness for tomboys.
A lot of people, like myself, simply lack the need and desire for belief/worship/idolization entirely.
TL; DR: People are different. Don't make the mistake of assuming all people are the same as you are.
Then the word "worship" is a completely meaningless term. We all have priorities, nobody holds every single aspect of their life with the exact same importance. Of course there must be some kind of number one (and two, and three etc). Why give it a special word?Or you could just be misunderstanding what someone means by 'worship' or 'idolize.'
Whatever is treated as first and most important in your life? That's what you worship; theologically speaking, that is what the term means.
Generally speaking, when a Christian says 'everyone worships something,' they aren't saying 'I 100% believe that everybody sings worship songs directed at whatever it is they idolize in their life.' They're saying 'everybody has something that they consider important above all else in their life.'
People put all kinds of things first in their life. 'Being happy,' being 'strong,' their job, their family, romance, power, a hobby, their political ideology, their self-image as 'being a good person,' etc.
If you will subordinate everything else in your life to that thing, you are worshiping it.
Except that is not how the terms are defined and used in either my nor Val's posts, rendering your entire argument irrelevant to the conversation. If you re-read mine, in particular, you see that I define how they are used in the context of my argument in particular. Using an undefined term mentioned by someone else without asking for a clarification or definition would have been idiotic, and while I am many things, an idiot is fortunately not one of them.Or you could just be misunderstanding what someone means by 'worship' or 'idolize.'
Whatever is treated as first and most important in your life? That's what you worship; theologically speaking, that is what the term means.
Generally speaking, when a Christian says 'everyone worships something,' they aren't saying 'I 100% believe that everybody sings worship songs directed at whatever it is they idolize in their life.' They're saying 'everybody has something that they consider important above all else in their life.'
People put all kinds of things first in their life. 'Being happy,' being 'strong,' their job, their family, romance, power, a hobby, their political ideology, their self-image as 'being a good person,' etc.
If you will subordinate everything else in your life to that thing, you are worshiping it.
Except that is not how the terms are defined and used in either my nor Val's posts, rendering your entire argument irrelevant to the conversation. If you re-read mine, in particular, you see that I define how they are used in the context of my argument in particular. Using an undefined term mentioned by someone else without asking for a clarification or definition would have been idiotic, and while I am many things, an idiot is fortunately not one of them.
Then the word "worship" is a completely meaningless term. We all have priorities, nobody holds every single aspect of their life with the exact same importance. Of course there must be some kind of number one (and two, and three etc). Why give it a special word?
No. To me, worship implies supreme importance. Not merely something that is most important, but something that is put on a special pedestal. An obsession. Not everybody has that.
Thanks for explaining this. It makes a lot of sense.Except for the part where when Theologians discuss what Worship actually means, this is the sort of conclusion that comes out.
I get that Christian Theology is not a subject of intense interest to agnostic and atheist types, but when it is a Christian using the term to describe something, you should be aware of what they mean, not what the pop culture perception of the term is. This is not even what all Christians mean by the term, but those Christians who are usually theologically-studied enough to use the saying 'everyone worships something' are coming from this school of thought, which is why they are using the saying.
'Supreme' is functionally a fancier and more emphatic word for 'most' in this usage. Whatever is most important in your life will be on a special pedestal by the very merit of being most important.
Now granted, that does not mean you'll see the same sort of obsessive behavior that you get from some people. I'm not claiming that. But it does mean that everyone has something pre-eminent.
Another way some Christians put it is 'what is on the throne of your heart?' Or 'On the throne in your life?'
The issue is that this denotes the very sort of qualitative difference in priority being denied. Not everyone has a specific thing they treat fundamentally differently like that, in many cases it's just the top of an ever-changing list, and using a single term for both is vague in ways very poor to useful communication because it's trying to describe two fundamentally opposed behavior patterns.Another way some Christians put it is 'what is on the throne of your heart?' Or 'On the throne in your life?'
Allow me to reiterate and simplify, as you apparently missed it the first time: As seen in Val's, Captain X's and my own posts, your definition is contextually invalid and thus irrelevant to the conversation.-snip-
Allow me to reiterate and simplify, as you apparently missed it the first time: As seen in Val's, Captain X's and my own posts, your definition is contextually invalid and thus irrelevant to the conversation.
If you are still unable to grasp something so simple, then I'm afraid there is very little I can do to help you.
More importantly: This is veering wildly off-topic. Therefore, I politely ask you to drop it. Whether or not you do so is of course up to you, but I have no interest in further derailing this thread.
The issue is that this denotes the very sort of qualitative difference in priority being denied. Not everyone has a specific thing they treat fundamentally differently like that, in many cases it's just the top of an ever-changing list, and using a single term for both is vague in ways very poor to useful communication because it's trying to describe two fundamentally opposed behavior patterns.
Such ambiguity is why the theological definition you're trying to clearly define is rarely-used academic jargon, because it isn't useful in wider society.
TL; DR: People are different. Don't make the mistake of assuming all people are the same as you are.
No, the fundamental difference is "What will I lay down my life for?", to be somewhat hyperbolic. Simply being the "most important" thing in one's life does not have this baggage, the fundamental difference is a matter of proclaiming a willingness to sacrifice needs for, or perhaps to make conditions materially worse as an ethical decision.The fundamental difference is 'what is most important?'
'Supreme' is functionally a fancier and more emphatic word for 'most' in this usage. Whatever is most important in your life will be on a special pedestal by the very merit of being most important.
A definite NO on this one.
You can have a number one priority in life without obsessing over it, or giving it more than a marginal preference over priorities 2 and 3.
No, the fundamental difference is "What will I lay down my life for?", to be somewhat hyperbolic. Simply being the "most important" thing in one's life does not have this baggage, the fundamental difference is a matter of proclaiming a willingness to sacrifice needs for, or perhaps to make conditions materially worse as an ethical decision.