The Right and White Nationalism - An annoying cancer

Captain X said:
That would only be the nihilistic viewpoint. You are not going to win anyone over to your religion by making this argument, so you may as well not make it.
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Just because atheists and secularists don't like being reminded of the logical consequences of their ideology, does not mean that what they are being told is not true.

Atheism has no foundation for morality. It has personal preferences, but in the end it teaches that we're nothing more or less than biological machines, and there is no inherent worth or value to that, nothing transcendant, just what a given atheist prefers to personally impute.

The effects of atheism in the 20th and 21st century are a testament to the horrors that this brings. Among other world ideologies, only Islam can come close to causing as much sheer human misery and suffering as has come about through atheism.
 
Yeah, a bunch of Christians trying to preach at atheists and agnostics about not being moral unless they're religious is probably off topic to discussing how irritating white nationalists are.

It's a shame there isn't an eye-roll reaction since that's all the response some of these posts deserve.
 
LordsFire said:
Just because atheists and secularists don't like being reminded of the logical consequences of their ideology, does not mean that what they are being told is not true.

Atheism has no foundation for morality. It has personal preferences, but in the end it teaches that we're nothing more or less than biological machines, and there is no inherent worth or value to that, nothing transcendant, just what a given atheist prefers to personally impute.

The effects of atheism in the 20th and 21st century are a testament to the horrors that this brings. Among other world ideologies, only Islam can come close to causing as much sheer human misery and suffering as has come about through atheism.
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Oh shut up. You are literally casting stones when you live in a glass house. For instance we just found piles of corpses of children next to a residential school- you know one run by the Catholic and Anglican schools. And apparently there are more. Also we cannot forget that mass grave found in Ireland. Or how King Leopold II who turned the Congo red... was a Christian, I mean if you toss blame at us for what you are blaming us for, we can do the same. Remember, in all the examples that I have provided say Leopold they have done these atrocities in service of their religion. And speaking of atrocities in service of religion, "Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius.".
 
Hlaalu Agent said:
Oh shut up. You are literally casting stones when you live in a glass house. For instance we just found piles of corpses of children next to a residential school- you know one run by the Catholic and Anglican schools. And apparently there are more. Also we cannot forget that mass grave found in Ireland. Or how King Leopold II who turned the Congo red... was a Christian, I mean if you toss blame at us for what you are blaming us for, we can do the same. Remember, in all the examples that I have provided say Leopold they have done these atrocities in service of their religion. And speaking of atrocities in service of religion, "Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius.".
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See, there's a difference. When you point to those things, I can say that they were morally wrong, as they violate God's Law, and anyone who claims to have done so in God's name is clearly a liar.

An Atheist?

All you can really say is 'I don't like it.' Because you have no higher moral law. You can say that your preferences are moral law, but in the end, they're still only your personal preferences.

Murder is wrong. Theft is wrong. Rape is wrong. Genocide is wrong. I can make these as moral statements, and that is logically consistent with my worldview. That some people violate these demonstrates that the heart of man is prone to sin and wickedness, which is also logically consistent with my worldview. It's ugly, and it should be resisted at all turns, but it's observably true.

To an atheistic worldview, what is it but one biological machine interacting with other biological machines in a way that results in the machine being damaged or broken?

Note that in nations with dominant, or even strong remnants of Christian culture, these offenses needed to be hidden. Because they are known to be unacceptable.

In aggressively atheistic regimes? These things are done openly, as warnings, or just because someone in power is on an ego trip. Even publicly claimed to be right and moral by those who do them. See, USSR, Khmer Rouge, Maoist China, etc.

Evil happened in both cases. But the scale of the offense and how it was treated were drastically different.


I'll be happy to continue this argument if you want, but yes, it should move to a new thread if it's to keep going on.

(As an addendum, yes atheistic people are capable of being moral. I'm not claiming otherwise. It's just not logically consistent with their worldview to believe in morality.)
 
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LordsFire said:
See, there's a difference. When you point to those things, I can say that they were morally wrong, as they violate God's Law, and anyone who claims to have done so in God's name is clearly a liar.

An Atheist?

All you can really say is 'I don't like it.' Because you have no higher moral law. You can say that your preferences are moral law, but in the end, they're still only your personal preferences.

Murder is wrong. Theft is wrong. Rape is wrong. Genocide is wrong. I can make these as moral statements, and that is logically consistent with my worldview. That some people violate these demonstrates that the heart of man is prone to sin and wickedness, which is also logically consistent with my worldview. It's ugly, and it should be resisted at all turns, but it's observably true.

To an atheistic worldview, what is it but one biological machine interacting with other biological machines in a way that results in the machine being damaged or broken?

Note that in nations with dominant, or even strong remnants of Christian culture, these offenses needed to be hidden. Because they are known to be unacceptable.

In aggressively atheistic regimes? These things are done openly, as warnings, or just because someone in power is on an ego trip. Even publicly claimed to be right and moral by those who do them. See, USSR, Khmer Rouge, Maoist China, etc.

Evil happened in both cases. But the scale of the offense and how it was treated were drastically different.


I'll be happy to continue this argument if you want, but yes, it should move to a new thread if it's to keep going on.

(As an addendum, yes atheistic people are capable of being moral. I'm not claiming otherwise. It's just not logically consistent with their worldview to believe in morality.)
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And there is a problem there, because that means that whatever God says is law is law. Whatever he says is Good is Good. Which is all well and good if you believe in Intellectualism, because God has rules, and sticks to them. Voluntarism...not so much. I honestly don't think divine command is a valid system of morality, because it very much allows people to substitute their own will for their god, or presuming the existence of god means morality is entirely contingent (well at least in Voluntarism)

And that assumes that we don't subscribe to the fact that there isn't a higher moral law. I actually lean to the belief that there is, a transcendent law to the universe, 'Divine' Reason- the Logos or the Tao. Or I'd rather believe it to be the case. The very law of the cosmos. Or I want to believe in it, that there is some transcendent law, independent of man, or of any supposed god or gods.

And I don't think the Communists are Atheistic, even Religious Atheistic like certain Asiatic religions and sects. They have a god, which is Communism itself or the State, and varying prophets and even their own theology. Lenin lived, Lenin lives, Lenin will live. History is on their side, and will end in universal communism. And so on.

You probably should on both counts. Even if I don't want to continue this scrap much longer, it should be continued.

It is perfectly consistent with my worldview. I believe in listening to Reason, Reason tells me what is moral, what is just, what is truth, what is not-truth and so on. And what Reason cannot provide me I listen to my fellow man and heed what he or she has to say and look to the words of the teachers both ancient and moderate.
 
Hlaalu Agent said:
Oh shut up. You are literally casting stones when you live in a glass house. For instance we just found piles of corpses of children next to a residential school- you know one run by the Catholic and Anglican schools. And apparently there are more. Also we cannot forget that mass grave found in Ireland. Or how King Leopold II who turned the Congo red... was a Christian, I mean if you toss blame at us for what you are blaming us for, we can do the same. Remember, in all the examples that I have provided say Leopold they have done these atrocities in service of their religion. And speaking of atrocities in service of religion, "Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius.".
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To be fair Anglos shoving orphans into the foundations of bridges is a tradition that predates Christianity and its akin to Muslims circumcizing their daughters.

IE there's a lot of evil you can lay at the feet of Islam but that particular abomination ain't one of them.

No idea why the Churches in the UK failed so hard to stop that though. They were successful elsewhere. Or why Imams tolerate that disgusting shit either.

But in the case of the UK it's a set of churches that wheeze about lesbian bishops so maybe their priorities are just retarded.
 
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almostinsane said:
Back on topic:

White nationalism is bad, 'mmkay.

Also, if the Left keeps pushing intersectionality, we're going to have a bad time.
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What is 'white nationalism' though? 20 years ago i would have pointed at some legit nazis and called it a day. Now, not wanting to be treated like a second class citizen in you're own homeland is 'supremacist'. Personally i'm past the point of condeming whites for what every race does. I could be convinced to care again if every group/race was given the same treatment as whites currently recieve. In an ideal world all racism wouldn't be tolerated. In todays only racism towards one race is not merely tolerated but encouraged. So fuck that with a rusty spoon.
 
FriedCFour said:
What’s white nationalism? Because there’s like, actual white nationalism and then anything to the right of Ben Shapiro and his ilk gatekeeping the right by calling them all white nationalists.
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Legit neo-nazis and people who believe other races are inferior.

Sir 1000 said:
What is 'white nationalism' though? 20 years ago i would have pointed at some legit nazis and called it a day. Now, not wanting to be treated like a second class citizen in you're own homeland is 'supremacist'. Personally i'm past the point of condeming whites for what every race does. I could be convinced to care again if every group/race was given the same treatment as whites currently recieve. In an ideal world all racism wouldn't be tolerated. In todays only racism towards one race is not merely tolerated but encouraged. So fuck that with a rusty spoon.
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And the Left encouraging racism against white people is why we're going to have a bad time. I want a colorblind society, and I won't tolerate being a second class citizen.
 
Sir 1000 said:
What is 'white nationalism' though? 20 years ago i would have pointed at some legit nazis and called it a day. Now, not wanting to be treated like a second class citizen in you're own homeland is 'supremacist'. Personally i'm past the point of condeming whites for what every race does. I could be convinced to care again if every group/race was given the same treatment as whites currently recieve. In an ideal world all racism wouldn't be tolerated. In todays only racism towards one race is not merely tolerated but encouraged. So fuck that with a rusty spoon.
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I don't know about white nationalism, but the right does have its issues with extremists. I mean there are people right now, on this forum, openly advocating burning people at the state; that's a problem no matter how you look at it.
 
Terthna said:
I don't know about white nationalism, but the right does have its issues with extremists. I mean there are people right now, on this forum, openly advocating burning people at the state; that's a problem no matter how you look at it.
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Well, the State is bad.....:p



I'm pretty instinctively not racist, treating individuals as they come. But, as I get older, and see more, well, I'm slowly coming around to another view.

There are, in fact, Average Racial IQ's.
www.human-intelligence.org

Race Differences in Intelligence - I.Q and Human Intelligence

Introduction to race differences in intelligence
www.human-intelligence.org www.human-intelligence.org

There are variations in crime rates based on race.

Note, Blacks in the US are about 13% of the population. And, that's not including things like the grooming gangs in the UK. Very much race first, then culture.



The last point I have? In most of the World, Australia included(as I am an Australian), there are Gov money and benefits going to one group or another, on a racial basis.

www.servicesaustralia.gov.au

ABSTUDY - Services Australia

A group of payments for Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander students or apprentices.
www.servicesaustralia.gov.au www.servicesaustralia.gov.au



Many people I meet are from other places, Indian, Chinese, the Middle East, etc. They're all willing to side with their own, over outsiders. An Indian friend of mine was only willing to marry within his community. A guy from Pakistan who would only hire family members for the branch of Domino's he ran. I could go on.


Generally? I'm just sick of being told it's wrong, then watching the majority around me doing it anyway. Then, they want to punish me for pointing out the obvious, and for not being willing to pay anything more.



Again and again, I'm told that being in favor of whites, like me, is wrong. That we're evil. That our history, our past, our everything is wrong.


Fuck everybody who says anything about "White" anything.
 
Terthna said:
I don't know about white nationalism, but the right does have its issues with extremists. I mean there are people right now, on this forum, openly advocating burning people at the state; that's a problem no matter how you look at it.
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I would say those people should be punished but the left not only does not punish their extremists but celebrates them. As a consequence i can not punch right under nearly any circumstance😫
 
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