Far left funding antifa

Oh boo hoo. Go to Sufficient Velocity and make an account with a Hitler picture and get back to me about how that goes over.


So beating up people, throwing urine or feces on people, hitting them in the head with bike locks, terrorizing people at their own homes, destroying private property, and using generally using violence to silence dissent isn't objectionable in your eyes? You're getting a fair debate here, maybe you aren't used to it.

*raises eyebrow*

Oh in that case.

Pray tell, why are we not having this discussion about shit that actually matters then? Until and unless Antifa commits an act which results in more deaths than rightwing extremism in the United States, I do not give two shits over some complaints about ill behaviour.

Not when someone drove a car into a crowd at charlottsville, when in the last five years more americans died from mass shootings than people died total in some active war zones, and most assuredly not when you have the equivalent of secret police going around rounding up people with Brown skin and not even bothering to be competant or humane about it.

America like all nations is beset by problems, Antifa are not even close to the most severe.

Then you are a horrible person and should seriously reexamine your priorities in life. Communism is exactly as abhorent as fascism or nazism, I wouldn't dream of supporting any one over the other.

Personal insults just won't cut it dear. Not that i'm a communist anyway, to atheistic an ideology for my taste.

Now, try again and come up with some more interesting than "you are a terrible person."

I've yet to support a mass murdering dictator on this site, unlike some.
 
Not when someone drove a car into a crowd at charlottsville,

That's one person, a lone wolf attack. Left wing violence on the other hand is actually organized and fully supported by left wing politicians. One lunatic that happened to be right wing by chance vs the entire left wing establishment of America condoning violence. It's pretty clear what the worse problem is.

when in the last five years more americans died from mass shootings than people died total in some active war zones,

What do the shootings have to do with the rightwing?

and most assuredly not when you have the equivalent of secret police going around rounding up people with Brown skin and not even bothering to be competant or humane about it.

They are rounding up illegal immigrants, not "brown people". But please continue to lie about racism, that is sure to convince people.

America like all nations is beset by problems, Antifa are not even close to the most severe.

Antifa is in the top 3 of America's worst problems, and it's going to get much worse. Antifa were they ones who legitimized political violence, once you open those floodgates you will discover it's very hard to close them back.

I've yet to support a mass murdering dictator on this site, unlike some.
You had a Stalin avatar and have just one post back admitted that you would support literally anyone against a fascist, including people as bad or worse (yes, there is such a thing) than fascists. Please lie more convincingly.
 
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That's one person, a lone wolf attack. Left wing violence on the other hand is actually organized and fully supported by left wing politicians. One lunatic that happened to be right wing by chance vs the entire left wing establishment of America condoning violence. It's pretty clear what the worse problem is.


You had a Stalin avatar and have just one post back admitted that you would support literally anyone against a fascist, including people as bad or worse (yes, there is such a thing) than fascists. Please lie more convincingly.

Ah lying, I don't actually lie in these sorts of arguments because lying is needlessly difficult. I mean its not just difficult to pull off correctly but after you've done it you need to stick to it and all sorts of bother.

Let me show you.

"Left wing violence is fully organised and supported by politicians" - False, Antifa, the only organisation remotely close to the description has no organised leadership and does not have any national level representatives. For that matter, neither the DSA, Bernie Sanders or Ms Occasio Cortex, the main left wing figures of America as it stands, have called for Antifa to engage in violence.

"Entire left wing establishment of america condoneing violence" - Runs into same problem above, even if the left were organised enough to do such they'd probably split right after.

As for the people being worse than fascists?

No.

That ideology was defined by genocide and murder, with no higher goal than the superiority of some arbitrary ethno-cultural definition of purity. Damn it and its practitioners to the darker pits of hell. Its telling that the coalition ww2 assembled against fascism contained nations of all stripes, from the ageing British Empire to Brazil and the Soviet Union.
 
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Ah lying, I don't actually lie in these sorts of arguments because lying is needlessly difficult. I mean its not just difficult to pull off correctly but after you've done it you need to stick to it and all sorts of bother.

Let me show you.

"Left wing violence is fully organised and supported by politicians" - False, Antifa, the only organisation remotely close to the description has no organised leadership and does not have any national level representatives. For that matter, neither the DSA, Bernie Sanders or Ms Occasio Cortex, the main left wing figures of America as it stands, have called for Antifa to engage in violence.

We literally have a thread on this board about politicians funding antifa. Are you even trying?

Also they don't have to be a fucking club, the fact that they show up at the same place at the same time en mass and start beating people proves that they are organized.

"Entire left wing establishment of america condoneing violence" - Runs into same problem above, even if the left were organised enough to do such they'd probably split right after.

You know, show me a left wing politician who condemned antifa violence. And not some milquetoast "violence on both sides" bullshit.

As for the people being worse than fascists?

No.

That ideology was defined by genocide and murder, with no higher goal than the superiority of some arbitrary ethno-cultural definition of purity. Damn it and its practitioners to the darker pits of hell. Its telling that the coalition ww2 assembled against fascism contained nations of all stripes, from the ageing British Empire to Brazil and the Soviet Union.

Yet at least two examples that we know of, Mussolini and Pinochet, have a combined body count that is a tiny fraction of Stalin's. Yet it is Stalin whose image in your avatar you find oh so funny, and it is people who are saying Pinochet's coup was just (although clearly not what followed it) are the evil ones in your opinion.
 
We literally have a thread on this board about politicians funding antifa. Are you even trying?

Also they don't have to be a fucking club, the fact that they show up at the same place at the same time en mass and start beating people proves that they are organized.


Yet at least two examples that we know of, Mussolini and Pinochet, have a combined body count that is a tiny fraction of Stalin's. Yet it is Stalin whose image in your avatar you find oh so funny, and it is people who are saying Pinochet's coup was just (although clearly not what followed it) are the evil ones in your opinion.


Trying? Not really, this isn't overly important as I said before. It annoys me that people focus on Antifa over actual problems but thats me. You have.... congratulations, 1 person who supported Antifa. And none who supported their violence. Big win.

As I said before, avatar's are irrelevant, because they say nothing. In my case, roleplaying a communist made me use a recogniseable communist as an avatar. At no point have I supported him or his actions. Big woop.

And people who support Mussolini and Pinnochet despite knowing what they did? Well if that isn't knowingly evil then the term ceases to have much meaning.
 
It's a classical our team mentality, people identify so much with their ideology. Mass murdering tyrant from our team is just a misunderstood humanitarian, everything we do is righteous and the exactly same things the other side does are evil.
I would have to be an idiot to think like that so stop projecting.

Stalin can go shove a poker up his ass right after hitler.
 
Why then your version of a funny Stalin avatar was Stalin smiling?

Because I was roleplaying a communist on a forum best described as "we lost our safe space so we made our own."


Also because it was more jovial than the flat look Stalin normally has and it was literally one of the first I found when searching "pictures of stalin". The man had about 4 facial expressions total.

Side note, what exactly are you trying to argue here? That I somehow support the bastard? If so I should inform you in advance that I don't.
 
Because I was roleplaying a communist on a forum best described as "we lost our safe space so we made our own."


Also because it was more jovial than the flat look Stalin normally has and it was literally one of the first I found when searching "pictures of stalin". The man had about 4 facial expressions total.

Side note, what exactly are you trying to argue here? That I somehow support the bastard? If so I should inform you in advance that I don't.
Do you want to answer my question? I feel like that'd be a lot more productive for time spent.
 
The Boot is getting annoyed. Spending time (and pixels) arguing ephemera rather than addressing the topic at hand, responding to the points made, etc is not civil debate. It's frightfully close to derailing. The Boot would like to ask everybody to stick to the topic and actually debate, not get distracted by meaningless personal slings and arrows. This goes for people on both sides... you know who you are. If this continues you'll force the Boot to actually do work, and nobody wants that.
 
We all awknowlege that some people are going to be bug fuck insane, and its generally aknowleged that you say said person was nuts and say you have nothing to do with them and that's that.

The problem is the left isn't doing that right now.

A journalist gets hounded in their home and I think ok, their nuts your going to disavow these guys right....
A gay Asian journalist gets attacked and I think ok, their nuts your going to disavow these guys right....right...
Ice facilities get fire bombed and I think ok their literaly attacking government property your going to disavow these guys right?

And then the most famous congresswoman in America starts fundraising for the people guilty of all of this and more.

That is freaking terrifying, we kind of have to hit her with an ethics violation over this or we risk thing getting a whole lot worse.
 
Do you want to answer my question? I feel like that'd be a lot more productive for time spent.

If you mean the page 3 one then...

Conservativism as an ideology isn't really united by any one thing so much as its professed resistance to change and desire to return to supposed better times (exemplified in the MAGA slogan for Trump's little band, to use an example). It is also often opposed to progressive ideals of change. It often (falsely, in my personal opinion) also proffers to adhere to certain cultural norms, religious traditions or biological realities.

As an additional qualifier whilst often associated with the Right wing this is more because for much of the twentieth century right wing politics were dominant in "western", for lack of a better term, nations. Economically left wing conservatism can and has existed, perhaps best exemplified by Stalin's soviet union, which outlawed homosexuality and pursued russification policies. However left wing conservative thought is generally more flexible on SOME issues compared to the right wing, notably the SU was willing to allow Women to fight though whether that was desperation or ideology taking the lead can be somewhat uncertain.

Modern right wing conservative thought 'broadly' follows several lines. The "social conservative" which is a limited welfare state that otherwise is conservative (most modern nations, the tories in the UK, Australian Liberals etc). The "reaganite" conservatives who are against even that, this is the business conservatism thats dominated the republican party of the US. The "alt-right" which can range anywhere from neo-fascist to outright fascist to just anti-progressive etc. "Religious conservatives" whom mostly concern themselves with what they see as moral issues, this used to be big in the Republicans but still has some present. Alot of conservative islamists are also broadly under this branch, or the indian Hindu nationalists to use another example.

What makes these conservative rather than ultra-conservative for the most part is that there is, usually, a limit to how far they'll go in pursuit of said ideals.

Ultra-conservatives are best exemplified by those willing to go to any length to get their "better world", return things to the way they once were or preserve their personal power. Ignoring economics for more ideological concerns. (Stalin for his part just barely avoids this because of his extremely pragmatic personality, he was willing to forgoe idealogical gains for personal gains to himself or the soviet union, also because he embraced some "progressive" ideals which muddy the waters.)

Fascism, reactionary absolute monarchs, Bannana republics and so on are defined by this. Potentially left wing conservatives that also might qualify are Pol Pot (returning to an agrarian world because he was fucking insane).

I feel I should also note that a final difference between the 2 is that whilst conservatives can be convinced to support positive change under some circumstances (John howard and gun laws, etc), this is almost never true for ultraconservatives.

To sum up, Conservatives are not inherently bad, but their opposition to change can be.
 
Because I was roleplaying a communist on a forum best described as "we lost our safe space so we made our own."

Should I roleplay as a Nazi on SV, aka "we lost our safe space after Athene so we made our own"?

Also because it was more jovial than the flat look Stalin normally has and it was literally one of the first I found when searching "pictures of stalin". The man had about 4 facial expressions total.

That doesn't make your case any better, that's actively digging yourself in deeper.

Side note, what exactly are you trying to argue here? That I somehow support the bastard? If so I should inform you in advance that I don't.

I'm sorry, but I outright don't believe you. You would never have dared to use a Hitler avatar in any context where it wasn't clear that you hate him (such as him being punched in the dick or whatever). I think that you DO support Stalin on some level. Actions speak louder than words.

EDIT: Sorry, did not to mean disrespect any footwear present, I've only seen the post after replying. I am dropping this line of conversation regardless of anyone quoting this post.
 
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That ideology was defined by genocide and murder, with no higher goal than the superiority of some arbitrary ethno-cultural definition of purity. Damn it and its practitioners to the darker pits of hell. Its telling that the coalition ww2 assembled against fascism contained nations of all stripes, from the ageing British Empire to Brazil and the Soviet Union.

Brasil and Greece were both allied powers run by fascist regimes at the time of WW2. Your use of the term remains deeply flawed. You are describing Nazism.
 
I think the fascists were more or less correct in their self identification: basically "radical centrists". Though its a radical centrism that grew initially out of radical Leftism of the time, before "moderating" to fascism.

Thus how "moderate" most of the fascist states really were, like Spain and Italy.

I think Sargon makes a good argument that Nazism is "Germanism gone crazy" and doesn't really have a huge amount of relevant discussing non-german states. Just as most people seem to believe that the Japanese Empire in WWII was "Japanese gone crazy", and not something particularly relavent to more "normal" political concerns: the whole "death for the Emperor, noble suicide" thing is so clearly a facet of Japanese culture, and something relatively uniquely Japanese, that falling into the patterns of WWII Japan is not really any sort of pressing concern.

Likewise, Sargon has made a good argument (i'll have to listen again to remember how good, and how much I actually agree) that Nazism is a very specifically German phenomenon, and not really all that relevant to non-German peoples.

Fascism obviously have much wider appeal, but its also an objectively much "milder", more moderate belief structure.
 
What I find interesting is how rapidly worse of a person I became by using that word to describe myself even in such arcane terms, even though my beliefs were unchanged and about 75pct of what I wrote was a denounciation of racism. I have also proposed, sincerely:

1. Letting every Montagnard in Vietnam immigrate to the US and get citizenship;

and

2. Giving Taiwan statehood,

Actions which would add tens of millions of Asians as voting citizens.

I will just add that I also support Puerto Rican statehood as an aside here.

One must imagine that is not exactly what one would call a racist’s policy proposals, can the far left actually accept that there might be a facist who isn’t racist? Since the ostensible objective of the antifa they are funding is to physically assault people like me, the answer is no.
 
What I find interesting is how rapidly worse of a person I became by using that word to describe myself even in such arcane terms, even though my beliefs were unchanged and about 75pct of what I wrote was a denounciation of racism. I have also proposed, sincerely:

1. Letting every Montagnard in Vietnam immigrate to the US and get citizenship;

and

2. Giving Taiwan statehood,

Actions which would add tens of millions of Asians as voting citizens.

I will just add that I also support Puerto Rican statehood as an aside here.

One must imagine that is not exactly what one would call a racist’s policy proposals, can the far left actually accept that there might be a facist who isn’t racist? Since the ostensible objective of the antifa they are funding is to physically assault people like me, the answer is no.

you are a facist and as a jew who lost family members in the whole worst camping experience in history thing that makes my skin crawl.

That said I'm willing to try to be civil and admit that your a lot more polite then most of the communists and socialist I've met.
 

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